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Televotes vs. Juries - Your guess

FallenAngelII

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Portuguese jury (2nd semifinal):

12: Estonia
10: Serbia
08: Bosnia&Herzegovina
07: Slovakia
06: Sweden
05: Georgia
04: Croatia
03: Malta
02: Belarus
01: Slovenia


Final:

12: Spain
10: Germany
08: Estonia
07: Serbia
06: Italy
05: Bosnia&Herzegovina
04: France
03: Albania
02: Iceland
01: Russia

No points for Sweden, well, i was expecting that... :?
As expected. The way the Portuguese, San Marinese (jury only) and Italian juries voted was highly suspect. 3/3/0 (total) to Sweden. Italy and San Marino both awarded Albania 12. It's almost like they all banded together and deliberately gave Sweden low marks because they thought Italy stood a chance at beating Sweden.
 

doctormalisimo

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As expected. The way the Portuguese, San Marinese (jury only) and Italian juries voted was highly suspect. 3/3/0 to Sweden. Italy and San Marino both awarded Albania 12. It's almost like they all banded together and deliberately gave Sweden low marks because they thought Italy stood a chance at beating Sweden.

or maybe they just didnt like the song? :p
 

FallenAngelII

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or maybe they just didnt like the song? :p
But they're not supposed to vote according to their personal tastes. That's actually against their instructions. It's very mysterious how those three specific countries banded together to give Loreen her lowest points in the contest (one country gave her 5, every single other country gave her at least 6).
 

Sim

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But they're not supposed to vote according to their personal tastes. That's actually against their instructions.

? didn't know they had instructions:p

And you won:D be happy, not critize because other gave you low points:p

and maybe it's not unusual that Italy and SM gave low points, they are neighbours and (maybe) have same music taste...
 

doctormalisimo

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But they're not supposed to vote according to their personal tastes. That's actually against their instructions. It's very mysterious how those three specific countries banded together to give Loreen her lowest points in the contest (one country gave her 5, every single other country gave her at least 6).

You can find patterns in anything if you look hard enough. Replace Portugal, San Marino and Italy with Lithuania, Israel and Finland and I'm sure you'll be able to find a similar pattern of conspiracy. Even if those 3 countries had corrupted votes, it hardly made a difference :lol:
 

FallenAngelII

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? didn't know they had instructions:p
You thoghtthe EBU just picks 5 people from each country and gives them free reign over 50% of the power?

And you won:D be happy, not critize because other gave you low points:p
That's like not criticizing Azerbaijan for allegedly buying votes in small countries. If something is amiss, it should be discussed.
 

Sim

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You thoghtthe EBU just picks 5 people from each country and gives them free reign over 50% of the power?


That's like not criticizing Azerbaijan for allegedly buying votes in small countries. If something is amiss, it should be discussed.

So why some juries would gave high points to Russia?
That would be totally against their instructions.
Juries are introduced because more quality songs would have a chance.

And what did you want? 400+ points from every country at least 8 points?
Your song was the best, indeed, but you must respect that not every country can love it:)
 

FallenAngelII

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So why some juries would gave high points to Russia?
That would be totally against their instructions.
I didn't say that juries never stray from their instructions, just that there are instructions. Also, Russia had a lot of things going for it, even though I personally hated the entry. And the jurie are instructed to act not only as a counter-balance to the televote but also as a complement to the televote (i.e. "Vote the way you think the people would've voted if there were no diaspora and neighbour voting involved", among other things).

Juries are introduced because more quality songs would have a chance.
But that's not all they're instructed to vote for.

And what did you want? 400+ points from every country at least 8 points?
No, but a single point out of Italy wouldn't be much to ask for. And it's still suspicious how Italy, Portugal and San Marino all banded together and gave "Euphoria" so little to no points. People were concerned Eastern Europe would be Loreen's fall, but it was the Ibero-Italo Mafia that gave her her lowest scores. The fact that the Italian and San Marinese juries seem to have voted pretty much identically is also a bit suspect.

Your song was the best, indeed, but you must respect that not every country can love it:)
But you see, as you said, one of the things the juries are supposed to do is to vote for quality songs. You can't possibly think that the San Marinese and Portuguese (and Italian) juries voted "correctly" by giving "Euphoria" such low marks. We know that the San Marinese vote was 100% jury vote, so they gave "Euphoria" 3 points... and Russia 10. There's also 4 for Azerbaijan, 5 for Turkey and 8 for Moldova. That's some dodgy voting. Portugal's vote was equally strange. 3 for Sweden, 8 for Russia, 6 for Moldova.

Italy pretty much matched San Marino almost vote-for-vote, which looks strange when 2 supposedly independent juries were voting. There's no way the 10 of them came to almost the exact same conclusions. And the differences are probably due to the Italian televote throwing a wrench in their shady plans.

Italy:
12 Albania
10 Russia
8 Germany
7 Romania
6 Serbia
5 Cyprus
4 Moldova
3 Ukraine
2 Denmark
1 Macedonia

San Marino:
12 Albania
10 Russia
8 Moldova
7 Italy
6 Serbia
5 Turkey
4 Azerbaijan
3 Sweden
2 Malta
1 Spain

I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusions. I'm saying there's a plausible possibility. Their jury votes were quite un-jury like. Portugal's was more jury-like, but it also gave Sweden unnaturally low marks, but that might've just been the Portuguese televoters. Italiy and San Marino remain highly suspect in my book.
 

Sim

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I didn't say that juries never stray from their instructions, just that there are instructions. Also, Russia had a lot of things going for it, even though I personally hated the entry. And the jurie are instructed to act not only as a counter-balance to the televote but also as a complement to the televote (i.e. "Vote the way you think the people would've voted if there were no diaspora and neighbour voting involved", among other things).

I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusions. I'm saying there's a plausible possibility. Their jury votes were quite un-jury like. Portugal's was more jury-like, but it also gave Sweden unnaturally low marks, but that might've just been the Portuguese televoters. Italiy and San Marino remain highly suspect in my book.

But what do you want?
You can't obey people to vote for a song because everyone else likes no?

You can turn it the way you want, the juries will always represent a bit of personal opinion.
And if the jury in Italy and San Marino said: hmm it's a bit overhyped OR they "blamed" Loreen for the "snow-incident", what can you do about it?

I'm sorry, but if Belgium wins next year, I don't give a **** who voted for us and who didn't.
I don't understand all this fuss.

But hey, that's me probably:D
 

Sim

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Look Fallen Angel, even in televote Sweden was 8th in Italy...

so it was not only the juries fault I presume...
 

ParadiseES

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It's almost like they all banded together and deliberately gave Sweden low marks because they thought Italy stood a chance at beating Sweden.

That's quite stupid. Then, why didn't they give their 12 points to Italy?
 

rajo

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Both juries, the Italian and the Sammarinnese, were announced by RAI. So maybe the voted altogether or exchanged their thoughts. In the worst case there was a collusion of both the juries and RAI.
 

Musicosity

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^Keep in mind that the Sanmarinese jury gave Euro Neuro high points...their jury clearly wasnt 'traditional'
I feel it was San Marino's entire approach to this year's ESC that wasn't 'traditional', given the song they submitted and the way they corrected it after the rejection by the EBU. ;)

Btw. FallenAngelII, you are again referring extensively to some background information about the jury instructions that you indicate to have. I would like to see those information in detail and your sources. The EBU rulebook only mentions a 'green document' for specifics, which I so far have been unable to dig up. I have already made this request to you, but there was no response.
 

busybee

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No matter what instructions the EBU gives the juries, the juries will vote, first and foremost, for songs they like. Just because a song is a potential hit, for example, it doesn't mean a jury has to vote for it. Sure, Sweden was liked by many people but no song is liked by everyone. It doesn't mean there was some conspiracy just because some juries didn't like Euphoria.
 

rajo

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The combined televote from Israel, Finland, Germany and Portugal

1. Russia
2. Sweden
3. Turkey
4. Spain
5. Moldova
6. Romania
7. Serbia
8. Azerbaijan
9. Estonia
10. Albania
 
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