The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Rubine]

So I have been vaccuuming the Swedish news room for updates on this matter and here's what has been established so far.

The Swedish police has talked to everyone involved and are more or less done with their initial assesment. They have stated that Joost has admitted wrong doing. The target for his action was a young photographer working for the EBU. The police has been in contact with the DA/prosecutors office and it seems like this is in fact going to go to trial. Allthough that descision has not been made yet, the police believe they have enough of a case to get a verdict.

Keren Peles who are one of the songwriters of Israels entry has recieved over 4000 hate messages (and counting) through social media, most of them from the Netherlands. She had nothing to do with the incident that got Joost disqualified though and she is not the same person as the photographer who was in the altercation with Joost.

As been presented earlier in this thread, since this is a police matter, the EBU probably has been prevented or adviced by their legal team not to comment further on this situation until the investigation is over. The EBU might not have had much of a say in the matter even.

I have also seen people lashing out on SVT in this thread which I really don't get. They had nothing to do with the incident and they had nothing to do with the descision to disqualify and just like EBU their hands are probably tied when it comes to communication on the matter even though their responsibility to present anything ended when the broadcast ended so I dont really get why they would be to blame for anything.

Yes I’ve seen messages on twitter about Keren Peles. It was going viral mixed with other gossips. It’s hard to debunk.

There were two video’s that people confuse with the incident with the Swedish photographer.
- video of Israel delegation trying to be in a frame with Joost in a selfie video shot.
- video of someone from the Israel delegation asking why Joost was not on stage.

People just see this and don’t read further, just react. I feel ashamed for the people who wrote her personal messages.

It’s ridiculous and exhausting why people just don’t read.

The SVT part came from me. I just quoted someone on another site and didn’t realize that part.

 

[Miloutchi]

I find it more frustrating that people immediately attack the camera woman as if she is an overly sensitive snowflake. She may have had a very bad experience. People experience and express things differently. She had every right to complain or file a police report or anything, even if it is eventually about a minor incident. Everybody has that right at any time. Now it sends a message that people just should stop complaining.

And in no way do I defend people attacking another individual personally. That is just loathsome behavior.

I just feel like the EBU could have handled it differently if it really is about some minor incident. Or the Dutch delegation if it isn’t about a minor incident. Or maybe both sides. But since this edition was a huge clusterfuck already, I tend to side against the EBU.

And not only the communication about the reason for disqualifying was severely lacking (they let us believe Joost had at least punched someone if not worse). They can hide behind the investigation for all I care, but the communication that the Netherlands was disqualified was also appalling. They took forever to make that decision. Cornald Maas said they all went to bed on Friday thinking everything would be fine. If there was such condemning and clear evidence and if it was such a unanimous decision, it should not have taken that long and it definitely shouldn’t have come as a surprise to the Dutch delegation. They said so only a few hours before the final started. They never even mentioned it in the show. From what I know, they tried everything to make it seem like the Netherlands never even participated. Some people even had their Dutch flag taken from them, because “the Netherlands is not a participating country anymore”, etc. They couldn’t give a damn about the Dutch fans who would be devastated no matter whether the decision was justified or not. It was all just shallow and fake and I will never forget that.

At this point I see no solution other than the Netherlands just withdrawing, no matter what the results of the investigation or trial is.

Edit: Before someone is going to quote me to prove some kind of point. I do realize that some things I said could also be interpreted that I think the woman overreacted. Funnily, how the things that frustrate us the most, is something we do ourselves too.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

If this incident involves a cameraperson, there must be photo or video evidence that could be used in the case?

 

[Gitte]

There supposedly is, but obviously not available to the public

 

[Miloutchi]

It appears privacy laws are looser in Sweden. Here in NL it's not allowed to film someone when they tell you they do not want to be filmed, but apparently in Sweden that is different. The Swedish expert also looked at the charge. if it would come to a conviction, then a fine would be the usual penalty for this kind of thing.

Thank you for this. Does indeed shed some light on why both sides may have a very different view on the whole situation.

Now that I think of it … seems a certain delegation can be glad that this year’s contest wasn’t held in the Netherlands.

 

[han-g]

If this incident involves a cameraperson, there must be photo or video evidence that could be used in the case?

Camera was broken but there are multiple witnesses

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

The most time past by without any evidence, will lead people to see Joost as a scapegoat for EBU failures .. And I, obviously, think the same thing for now. Tell me I'm wrong, but for now we heard only suppositions without proofs.

By the way, EBU should work to prevent cameraworkers and journalists to harass the artists, because It's becoming pathetic. I thought the same when some journalists accused Måneskin to snort cocaine during the Final in 2021, and even Eden Golan's press conference after semi 2 made me raise my eyebrows. If they can't respect the artists and delegations, they can't demand respect. Full stop.

 

[crashworld]

Those who still insist in linking the Israeli delegation to this saga just shows what kind of person they really are

As for Joost, I hope he has learnt his lesson.
He is entitled to his feelings and emotions, but when it crosses the line, there are repercussions.
Don't expect everyone to be so understanding because no-one owes anyone a living.

 

[b4ld3r]

New statement from the EBU:

“The Dutch artist Joost Klein was disqualified from the Grand Final of this year’s Eurovision Song Contest following threatening behaviour directed at a female member of the production crew. Swedish police have investigated the offence, and the case will soon be handed over to the prosecutor in an accelerated procedure.

Joost’s behaviour was in clear breach of Contest rules which are designed to ensure there is a safe working environment for all staff and to protect the production. We are not pre-judging the legal process but, given the circumstances of what occurred and the fact that the police case will shortly be handed to the prosecutor, it would not have been appropriate for Joost to participate in the Grand Final.

The decision to exclude him was backed by the Contest’s governing body of Members – the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group – and unanimously supported by the EBU Executive Board, following a thorough internal investigation.

The version of events released in some public comments and on social media does not correspond with the statements shared with us and the Swedish Police by staff and witnesses. However, the matter is now subject to legal proceedings and there is unfortunately nothing further we can add at this stage.

We have a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour at our events and will always take necessary action to address threats to staff – no matter who they come from.”

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[HarryUK]

New statement from the EBU:

“The Dutch artist Joost Klein was disqualified from the Grand Final of this year’s Eurovision Song Contest following threatening behaviour directed at a female member of the production crew. Swedish police have investigated the offence, and the case will soon be handed over to the prosecutor in an accelerated procedure.

Joost’s behaviour was in clear breach of Contest rules which are designed to ensure there is a safe working environment for all staff and to protect the production. We are not pre-judging the legal process but, given the circumstances of what occurred and the fact that the police case will shortly be handed to the prosecutor, it would not have been appropriate for Joost to participate in the Grand Final.

The decision to exclude him was backed by the Contest’s governing body of Members – the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group – and unanimously supported by the EBU Executive Board, following a thorough internal investigation.

The version of events released in some public comments and on social media does not correspond with the statements shared with us and the Swedish Police by staff and witnesses. However, the matter is now subject to legal proceedings and there is unfortunately nothing further we can add at this stage.

We have a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour at our events and will always take necessary action to address threats to staff – no matter who they come from.”

Will be interesting to see what happens.

So why weren’t Israel penalised for their delegation harassing people left right and centre? THAT is what we are pissed off about

 

[Leydan]

So why weren’t Israel penalised for their delegation harassing people left right and centre? THAT is what we are pissed off about

No offence and this isn't targeted at you specifically but why is this the kneejerk response? I've seen it all over twitter etc. "But what about..." and then linking back in Israel. That's a totally different incident (or series of) and not at all linked to this one - yeah the zero tolerance policy should apply to all but this whataboutism is ridiculous. What pisses me off is that it's clear Joost did something especially now it's handed over to prosecutors to go forwards with it and yet so many are still hellbent on defending him or just brushing it off because AVROTROS said so, they liked Joost and he simply could never or cos Israel. I 100% guarantee if it was Eden the fandom would be going ape and believe every word of the female production staff.

 

[HarryUK]

No offence and this isn't targeted at you specifically but why is this the kneejerk response? I've seen it all over twitter etc. "But what about..." and then linking back in Israel. That's a totally different incident (or series of) and not at all linked to this one - yeah the zero tolerance policy should apply to all but this whataboutism is ridiculous. What pisses me off is that it's clear Joost did something especially now it's handed over to prosecutors to go forwards with it and yet so many are still hellbent on defending him or just brushing it off because AVROTROS said so, they liked Joost and he simply could never or cos Israel. I 100% guarantee if it was Eden the fandom would be going ape and believe every word of the female production staff.

Because the main arguments behind everything that has gone wrong this year all lead back to this special treatment that KAN were given and it needs to be called out, especially if another delegation are reported to have behaved in a similar fashion with no consequence (as reported by various other delegations)

 

[Lumina]

I already wrote it in the other thread. You weren’t there. You simply don’t know what happened. How can you claim the Israeli delegation did anything wrong when you were NOT THERE!! Only from hearsay? Yeah, great source.

Get over it. Joost and the IL del. behavior are two different things and will be investigated differently!!

By the way, the decision to DQ Joost has been backed by the reference group of which members of different countries are a part of!

 

[Lumina]

No offence and this isn't targeted at you specifically but why is this the kneejerk response? I've seen it all over twitter etc. "But what about..." and then linking back in Israel. That's a totally different incident (or series of) and not at all linked to this one - yeah the zero tolerance policy should apply to all but this whataboutism is ridiculous. What pisses me off is that it's clear Joost did something especially now it's handed over to prosecutors to go forwards with it and yet so many are still hellbent on defending him or just brushing it off because AVROTROS said so, they liked Joost and he simply could never or cos Israel. I 100% guarantee if it was Eden the fandom would be going ape and believe every word of the female production staff.

Thank you. Wrote something similar in the main thread, should have read here first, you summed it up perfectly.

 

[Miloutchi]

I already wrote it in the other thread. You weren’t there. You simply don’t know what happened. How can you claim the Israeli delegation did anything wrong when you were NOT THERE!! Only from hearsay? Yeah, great source.

Get over it. Joost and the IL del. behavior are two different things and will be investigated differently!!

By the way, the decision to DQ Joost has been backed by the reference group of which members of different countries are a part of!

Hearsay from some 10 different broadcasters who all state the exact same thing? How do you know nothing happened if you were not there?

Apparently AVROTROS has confirmed that they also filed a report to the EBU about the unsafe environment. Apparently this was filed on Friday. A day before Joost was disqualified. It’s getting harder to believe the whole atmosphere over there had nothing to do with his actions that led to a disqualification.

Nederland deed officiële melding van onveilige sfeer tijdens Songfestival

Nederland heeft vrijdag een officiële melding gedaan bij de organisatie van het Eurovisie Songfestival vanwege de onveilige sfeer in de Malmö Arena. AVROTROS bevestigt aan NU.nl dat met name in de zogeheten delegatiebubbel een onveilige sfeer hing.

www.nu.nl

 

[Sammy]

@HarryUK
By the way, there is also a statement regarding what you pointed out. So it's not over yet and also the behavior of any delegation will be investigated and discussed by the EBU.
here's the link:

EBU Releases Statement Regarding Incidents at Eurovision 2024 - Eurovoix

The European Broadcasting Union has released a statement regarding delegation behavior at the Eurovision Song Contest 2024.

eurovoix.com

Here's the text

"Following a week of controversy at the 68th edition of the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Broadcasting Union has released a statement to The Mirror and Irish Independent:

“We regret that some delegations at the Eurovision Song Contest in Malmö didn’t respect the spirit of the rules and the competition both onsite and during their broadcasts,

We spoke to a number of delegations during the event regarding various issues that were brought to our attention.

The EBU’s governing bodies will, together with the heads of delegations, review the events surrounding the ESC in Malmö to move forward in a positive way and to ensure the values of the event are respected by everyone.

Individual cases will be discussed by the event’s governing body, the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group made up of representatives from participating broadcasters, at its next meeting.”

 

[HarryUK]

@HarryUK
By the way, there is also a statement regarding what you pointed out. So it's not over yet and also the behavior of any delegation will be investigated and discussed by the EBU.
here's the link:

EBU Releases Statement Regarding Incidents at Eurovision 2024 - Eurovoix

The European Broadcasting Union has released a statement regarding delegation behavior at the Eurovision Song Contest 2024.

eurovoix.com

Here's the text

"Following a week of controversy at the 68th edition of the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Broadcasting Union has released a statement to The Mirror and Irish Independent:

“We regret that some delegations at the Eurovision Song Contest in Malmö didn’t respect the spirit of the rules and the competition both onsite and during their broadcasts,

We spoke to a number of delegations during the event regarding various issues that were brought to our attention.

The EBU’s governing bodies will, together with the heads of delegations, review the events surrounding the ESC in Malmö to move forward in a positive way and to ensure the values of the event are respected by everyone.

Individual cases will be discussed by the event’s governing body, the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group made up of representatives from participating broadcasters, at its next meeting.”

So you’d agree the Netherlands were treated inconsistently when compared to how the EBU is now addressing KAN’s behaviour?

 

[HarryUK]

I already wrote it in the other thread. You weren’t there. You simply don’t know what happened. How can you claim the Israeli delegation did anything wrong when you were NOT THERE!! Only from hearsay? Yeah, great source.

Get over it. Joost and the IL del. behavior are two different things and will be investigated differently!!

By the way, the decision to DQ Joost has been backed by the reference group of which members of different countries are a part of!

And nor were you? The Reference Group also need overhauling. It’s not just Martin. For some reason they’ve treated 36 broadcasters one way and one far more leniently.

Multiple acts are starting to come out and speak their truth now. The EBU have been forced to investigate. They wouldn’t have bothered if there wasn’t so much uproar at their blatant mistreatment of people

 

[Sammy]

So you’d agree the Netherlands were treated inconsistently when compared to how the EBU is now addressing KAN’s behaviour?

I just posted the statement of the EBU. I was not there. I rely on official information, not on hearsay or social media. That‘s all I can say.

 

[HarryUK]

I just posted the statement of the EBU. I was not there. I rely on official information, not on hearsay or social media. That‘s all I can say.

and from what you’ve shared, they were trigger happy in DQing Joost but have left it this long to gather the facts about KAN - the inconsistency is RIFE