The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Chorizo]

It is completely absurd that something as insignificant as raising a fist in anger in a situation in which such anger is completely understandable led to a police investigation and disqualification.

In most countries, the issue would have probably been settled internally with either apologizing or cursing at each other. The fact that such a minor incidence was blown completely out of proportion seems to be tied to Swedish culture. Let’s not forget that Sweden is known as the rape capital of the world because of the high number of legally pursued rape cases, while the actual number of rapes isn’t higher in Sweden than in other countries. The reason for this is that Sweden uses an incredibly generous definition of what rape even is. If a woman agrees to have sex with a man and has a bad feeling about it the next day, that might be enough for the accusation of rape and the police investigating in Sweden. In a country with such a mindset, raising a fist in an empty threat is enough for a legal case to be brought to court and to be tried as a criminal.

If the Swedes agree among themselves that such a system makes sense, I’d say they should handle things their way, but it is a huge problem when Sweden agrees to hold an international event in Sweden and then applies such laws to participants from other countries. I think this attitude shows that Sweden is not a suitable place to hold international competitions in the first place.

 

[4815162342]

Funny how Joost got disqualified because they have zero tolerance and need to create a safe working environment for their staff, yet all the complaints from the broadcasters is that it wasn’t a safe environment.

Can we disqualify the EBU too?

There seem to be a lot of complaints, but noone wants to share any specifics to what they are referring to other than 'unsafe environment'.
Polish reporter was implying just the presence of Eden Golan makes this an unsafe environment. For all we know they might think similarly, especially when the tension in the hall was so intense because of all the booing.

 

[crashworld]

By the way, there is also a statement regarding what you pointed out. So it's not over yet and also the behavior of any delegation will be investigated and discussed by the EBU.
here's the link:

EBU Releases Statement Regarding Incidents at Eurovision 2024 - Eurovoix

The European Broadcasting Union has released a statement regarding delegation behavior at the Eurovision Song Contest 2024.

eurovoix.com

Here's the text

"Following a week of controversy at the 68th edition of the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Broadcasting Union has released a statement to The Mirror and Irish Independent:

“We regret that some delegations at the Eurovision Song Contest in Malmö didn’t respect the spirit of the rules and the competition both onsite and during their broadcasts,

We spoke to a number of delegations during the event regarding various issues that were brought to our attention.

The EBU’s governing bodies will, together with the heads of delegations, review the events surrounding the ESC in Malmö to move forward in a positive way and to ensure the values of the event are respected by everyone.

Individual cases will be discussed by the event’s governing body, the Eurovision Song Contest Reference Group made up of representatives from participating broadcasters, at its next meeting.”

Keywords = some delegations (plural form)

If some people can calm down and read the EBU's statement properly, the whole toxic atmosphere was not due to the actions of one particular single delegation from a country that some of you all can't even named without throwing a hissy fit.
(By the way, it's I-S-R-A-E-L, not that hard.)

I trust EBU's words in this. We are not getting the complete picture behind the scenes. They jolly well know what went on backstage. A collective of them have come together for the worst to turn this environment into a chaos on purpose. If people just ignore each other and behave like actual adults and professionally, this contest would have gone into another different direction.

The same goes to the fan press, where most of them don't even know what professionalism means to deserve that accreditation. I hope EBU strips off their accreditation.

And also, EBU will do what it needs to do. If some of you people don't like their decisions and the outcome of the investigations, feel free to lodge a complaint to your local broadcaster and ask them to withdraw from next year's competition. Let's see how many of them will actually follow suit.

 

[crashworld]

Hearsay from some 10 different broadcasters who all state the exact same thing? How do you know nothing happened if you were not there?

Apparently AVROTROS has confirmed that they also filed a report to the EBU about the unsafe environment. Apparently this was filed on Friday. A day before Joost was disqualified. It’s getting harder to believe the whole atmosphere over there had nothing to do with his actions that led to a disqualification.

Nederland deed officiële melding van onveilige sfeer tijdens Songfestival

Nederland heeft vrijdag een officiële melding gedaan bij de organisatie van het Eurovisie Songfestival vanwege de onveilige sfeer in de Malmö Arena. AVROTROS bevestigt aan NU.nl dat met name in de zogeheten delegatiebubbel een onveilige sfeer hing.

www.nu.nl

May I know which 10 broadcasters have officially filed a complaint specifically to Israel's delegation behaviour contributing to the unpleasant behaviour and where is the source of this?

Because from the article you have linked, I did a google translate:

• Various artists complained about the unpleasant atmosphere behind the scenes.
• The Dutch and 3 other delegations (Lithuania, Ireland and Norway) were named.
• Portugal and the Dutch delegations specifically complained about the use of anti-booing technology by EBU.

However, I didn't see the article mentioned 10 specific delegations and also their complaints pertaining to Israel's delegation behaviour. Perhaps Google didn't translate the article properly, but would be great if you can highlight which part of the article mentioned 10 broadcasters and indicated the cause of the unpleasantness was solely due to Israel's delegation behaviour.

 

[ekzuu]

I listened interview from our representatives 5miinust & puuluup and they said Joost was very nice and they were good friends backstage, and were sad he couldnt perform in finals. So yeah, idk

 

[Toposcoupe]

I listened interview from our representatives 5miinust & puuluup and they said Joost was very nice and they were good friends backstage, and were sad he couldnt perform in finals. So yeah, idk

The Estonian guys even closed their performance in the grand final with "dankjewel," which we saw as an expression of support for Joost (at 2:55 in the youtube video).

 

[Realest]

His Jury-Result:

12th Place, 58 Points.

 

[Lumina]

May I know which 10 broadcasters have officially filed a complaint...

The thing is, some other delegations felt safe and not uncomfortable. Of course, only those get vocal that do have a complaint. That's what we read, that's what we hear. And people here believe everything blindly. If it wasn't that sad, it would be funny.

German delegation didn't feel unsafe at any point. They said in an interview about this topic, that the tension was there behind the scenes, but other than that, no complaints. They said the delegations were always on their own, most of the time, and didnt have much contact with other delegations. That the complaints against Israel were blown out of proportion.

So now we have delegations that felt unsafe, and some that felt safe. I neither say, people who say they felt unsafe were wrong, nor do I say the ones who felt safe are liars. As always, there can be TWO OPINIONS based on how your experience was.

That doesn't make Israel a threat to anybody you want them to be. What ever there was between those delegations and Israel, the EBU will investigate. But not every delegation felt unsafe.

 

[han-g]

The thing is, some other delegations felt safe and not uncomfortable. Of course, only those get vocal that do have a complaint. That's what we read, that's what we hear. And people here believe everything blindly. If it wasn't that sad, it would be funny.

German delegation didn't feel unsafe at any point. They said in an interview about this topic, that the tension was there behind the scenes, but other than that, no complaints. They said the delegations were always on their own, most of the time, and didnt have much contact with other delegations. That the complaints against Israel were blown out of proportion.

So now we have delegations that felt unsafe, and some that felt safe. I neither say, people who say they felt unsafe were wrong, nor do I say the ones who felt safe are liars. As always, there can be TWO OPINIONS based on how your experience was.

That doesn't make Israel a threat to anybody you want them to be. What ever there was between those delegations and Israel, the EBU will investigate. But not every delegation felt unsafe.

I really begin to think with your vague answers and lack of external sources that you are just making stuff up.

 

[SAYAY]

He wouldn't be the first artist to emerge damaged from the Eurovision song contest.

While not related to the song contest, the Dutch public broadcaster has recently been under intense scrutiny for transgressive behavior.

Morever, several artists have opened up about their bad experiences during the contest:

• Joan Franka (2012) was in the news last April when she shared in a music program about how she fared during and after her participation in the Eurovision Song Contest. She had no confidantes around her and was not allowed to have her parents with her, was humiliated and fatshamed by people from her team, and fell into years of depression and developed an eating disorder.
• Dion (2023) has been completely silent on social media since his participation at Eurovision. Mia and Dion were dealt with harshly by the Dutch media and gossip press.
• S10 (2022) is now also open about her participation in the Eurovision Song Contest. She doesn't want to complain, "but the Eurovision Song Contest is really very intense. With my team, with the bubble I was in, with the AVROTROS and others, I was very well protected." But "you have to be in that venue for 12 to 14 hours almost every day. You have to perform, people constantly want something from you. That certainly took its toll on me." She says: "Many people have crossed my boundaries, especially backstage where it is actually not a pleasant environment for artists."

Ook grenzen S10 niet gerespecteerd tijdens songfestival: 'Geen prettige omgeving'

Na het incident met Joost Klein (26) doet S10 (23) een boekje open over haar tijd bij het Eurovisiesongfestival. De zangeres geeft toe dat ze het zwaar heeft gehad tijdens haar deelname in 2022. Zo vindt ook S10 dat de mensen backstage haar grenzen niet respecteerden. De documentaire 'S10-dat...

www.rtl.nl

I suspect that AVROTROS attaches extra importance to the well-being of its own artists because of all the stories about inappropriate behavior (at other broadcasters, I believe), because of changing times and because of the experiences of former participants. I think the AVROTROS has therefore started to act more assertively in the interests of the artist instead of in the interests of the EBU, by sometimes refusing sponsored activities by the EBU, or by directly addressing the dissatisfaction of its own artists with the EBU.

Fuck the EBU, the well-being of your own artist always comes first.

I read about the Joan Franka thing a while ago. I must admit I didn't remember who she was at first, but when they mentioned the headpiece I remembered. It was really terrible reading about her awful experiences. I hope she is doing alright now

 

[HarryUK]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1790483444469789027

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1790494172664721829

Well this is interesting listening!

 

[Miloutchi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1790483444469789027

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1790494172664721829

Well this is interesting listening!

It doesn’t really say anything we don’t know yet and the timeline isn’t correct from what we have heard. Seems to be a pretty sketchy source.

 

[SAYAY]

It doesn’t really say anything we don’t know yet and the timeline isn’t correct from what we have heard. Seems to be a pretty sketchy source.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that this is someone who have just read up on everything but have gotten a few details possibly wrong. One should of course never say never, but I would for now trust artists, delegations and broadcasters more over this.

 

[Lumina]

I really begin to think with your vague answers and lack of external sources that you are just making stuff up.

Feel free to do so. I have told you where to look and if you did you had seen I was not making this up but I certainly won’t go through 3 hours of live talk to find the exact moment just for you, sorry. Also, there are more than one video dealing with the topic.

Some here just can’t get over the fact that some delegations described the situation worse than it was in reality because they personally had a bad experience.

It’s just like a Google review. You go to a restaurant, you don’t like it, you award only one star. In reality there are many who liked it and would award five stars but you don’t go there and put a review if everything is ok and you like it, right?

I am not saying, the Dutch delegation or some of the other delegations didn’t have a hard time. But a part of this reality is, their artists were a force behind it that made the situation uncomfortable for all. It wasn’t only Israel.

 

[Rubine]

I just want to say …

Like Joost “in the end we are all humans”

NOT robots!

He had a bad moment, wrong time, wrong place… he apologized, he admit he was wrong and he payed a horrible prize for it. Not to live his dream in the final, he will probably get a huge fine, and his reputation is damaged.

Let’s move on

And we don’t need to discuss Israel in this thread.

And… I adore Joost!

 

[ItsJaden]

Still winning today...

 

[ItsJaden]

sorry that was the last 2 days.. Today

 

[FilipFromSweden]

So sick of hearing about Joost nonstop. Dude signed up to be on Eurovision and gets mad he is filmed during live showtime hours.

 

[ItsJaden]

So sick of hearing about Joost nonstop. Dude signed up to be on Eurovision and gets mad he is filmed during live showtime hours.

Maybe not read The Netherlands thread then? Just a thought...

 

[0scar]

So sick of hearing about Joost nonstop. Dude signed up to be on Eurovision and gets mad he is filmed during live showtime hours.

Quite simplistic view on the matter but ok