The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Rubine]

My Swedish friend just said that “skärrad” not means she was cut. But that she was scared / frightened.

It translates wrong to Dutch and maybe to other languages.

If I compare all information. I think Joost made a (fist ) movement to her. She got scared and dropped her phone so it broke.

Sorry that’s my speculation.

 

[Miloutchi]

So all we know now is that he made a fist movement?

Oh dear, I think I have to report myself to the police for all the fist movements I’ve made in my life. I’m clearly a criminal.

 

[Sammy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789810989686243762

"We are out of Europe, fuck off, bye bye"

Better than the original version tbh

whoever calls this „amazing“ has quite a low standard of humour… that‘s about
as basic as it can get.

 

[Miloutchi]

whoever calls this „amazing“ has quite a low standard of humour… that‘s about
as basic as it can get.

Welcome to Dutch humor.

 

[Sammy]

Welcome to Dutch humor.

That‘s not dutch, that‘s stupid. When I think of „Netherland‘s second“, that was also dutch and very funny, multilayered and intelligent. They can do sooooo mich better!

 

[Miloutchi]

That‘s not dutch, that‘s stupid. When I think of „Netherland‘s second“, that was also dutch and very funny, multilayered and intelligent. They can do sooooo mich better!

This duo has been doing this for years. They also did this with the Common Linnets in 2014. Their show is quite popular in the Netherlands. So, yes, I’d say this is Dutch humor.

 

[Sammy]

This duo has been doing this for years. They also did this with the Common Linnets in 2014. Their show is quite popular in the Netherlands. So, yes, I’d say this is Dutch humor.

I‘d argue that there are dumb comedians all over the world. Being first degree is not specifically dutch. But if you want to see it that way, that’s ok by me.

 

[EscGeek]

Welcome to Dutch humor.

I think this humor is more universal and yes, i find it funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISn3gb6fLC0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msZPNNDToDM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Osm7Occoc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA3V3vLahmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEfIbEzNESY

 

[Looren]

whoever calls this „amazing“ has quite a low standard of humour… that‘s about
as basic as it can get.

I take it, my humour standard is very low so this made me laugh out loud for a few minutes

 

[Sammy]

I take it, my humour standard is very low so this made me laugh out loud for a few minutes

good for you!

 

[Lumina]

A fist movement, but without touching anyone or anything. And suddenly someone is bleeding? And the camera is broken? How? is Joost a wizard?

I know you‘re frustrated because he is from your county but please accept, Joost admitted wrong behaviour and you should deal with it. He wouldn’t admit to something he hasn’t done and nobody of us knows what exactly he has done. There are still rumors but it was enough for the police to investigate so it wasn’t just a little misbehaving. It was something that was not correct, whatever it was, so that‘s it. Chapter closed.

 

[Miloutchi]

I know you‘re frustrated because he is from your county but please accept, Joost admitted wrong behaviour and you should deal with it. He wouldn’t admit to something he hasn’t done and nobody of us knows what exactly he has done. There are still rumors but it was enough for the police to investigate so it wasn’t just a little misbehaving. It was something that was not correct, whatever it was, so that‘s it. Chapter closed.

Oh dear god, yes please use my nationality against me.

Police investigate all kinds of bullshit claims all the time. And if all Joost did was a threatening movement, and he admitted to that, then that’s not behavior that requires disqualification in my opinion.

 

[Rubine]

I know you‘re frustrated because he is from your county but please accept, Joost admitted wrong behaviour and you should deal with it. He wouldn’t admit to something he hasn’t done and nobody of us knows what exactly he has done. There are still rumors but it was enough for the police to investigate so it wasn’t just a little misbehaving. It was something that was not correct, whatever it was, so that‘s it. Chapter closed.

You can’t say the chapter is closed.

Its closed hopefully in June.

 

[Chorizo]

And covid vaccines were just a way to make us dependent on Bill Gates?

There is information that Keren Peles from the Israeli delegation was involved in harassing Joost.

 

[Rubine]

I have this from another platform but I like his analyzes

These reports don't sound good with all the legal procedural lingo, but they all confirm again that Joost did not touch the woman. A Swedish legal expert is also explaining Swedish law in De Telegraaf newspaper.

It appears privacy laws are looser in Sweden. Here in NL it's not allowed to film someone when they tell you they do not want to be filmed, but apparently in Sweden that is different. The Swedish expert also looked at the charge. if it would come to a conviction, then a fine would be the usual penalty for this kind of thing.

Now they're saying after Joost asked the woman to stop filming him and she kept filming, he would have walked towards her with his fist raised, but he did not touch her. Joost is also said to have apologized several times immediately after the incident. (But this is again based on one anonymous source in Aftonbladet/Tobbe Ek. They have spread false and misleading information about this case before, so not sure if it's true.)

We know for certain Joost made a threatening gesture. Avrotros also confirmed that, and Joost is said to have admitted that to the police too. It's also confirmed by the police that he did not touch the woman.

I think it's very questionable why EBU and SVT allowed for an information vacuum to exist for 24 hours, in which the Swedish gossip media Tobbe Ek spread the false rumor that he had hit a woman.

Their mismanagement and (lack of clear) communication caused so much more damage. No matter the outcome of this case in Sweden, EBU and SVT remain responsible for that.

 

[marty]

I am not a big fan of Martin Oesterdahl or the reference group, but in this case I have trust that they did not decide on a disqualification without a clear reason, since this did not happen before. but the communication around it and around other things are disastrous. I dont think Martin Oesterdahl should remain on that position.

 

[jatojo]

I think it's very questionable why EBU and SVT allowed for an information vacuum to exist for 24 hours, in which the Swedish gossip media Tobbe Ek spread the false rumor that he had hit a woman.

Their mismanagement and (lack of clear) communication caused so much more damage. No matter the outcome of this case in Sweden, EBU and SVT remain responsible for that.

And yet, it's the time schedule and intensity of the attention from the media and fans that make the "information vaccuum" a problem. In any other situation, spending one day examining a conflict like this would be considered speedy. If it had been violence, I think things would have gone faster, but there may have been some doubt in terms of the seriousness of what Klein had done, and if the leaders of the organization don't agree, they need to discuss it in order to be sure the right decision is taken. They probably had to ask several legal advisors too - and of course the police. All that takes time.

At least the suspension came quite early, and always if there is a suspension, then that could easily lead to a disqualification.

But yeah, the organizers will probably admit to not having communicated well enough about it. That's pretty easy to do.

 

[crashworld]

I do agree that communication could have been so much better from EBU, but I would believe there is a legal team behind to advise against any communication since it's a police case and it may impede the investigation process?

But having said that, the timing is just not helping to be honest. Because investigation takes time, in order to give both the accused and the victim a fair assessment and due diligence, you can't expect such protocols to be cut short. Two of our forum members have given their take based on personal experience, so no matter how you guys think it's "trivial" or "disproportionate" etc, EBU has their hands tied because of the legal process surroundings such things.

It's always easy in hindsight to say what EBU should or shouldn't do even though we still haven't got the full details as the story keeps changing as it goes.

 

[BorisBubbles]

Aftonblad said Joost admitted to the crime.

He made a fist movement.

That has to be the weakest definition of the word "Crime" I have ever seen. :X

So, what? The tension and toxicity of the backstage (remember that he performed not far behind a certain country) got to him and he slipped up? Seems hardly DQ worthy.

As far as that agreement is concerned - was it verbal or written and with whom? If it was an argreement with the organisers it was strange that (1) they agreed to provide what is essentially preferential treatment to Joost (2) didn't the organisers communicate to their own staff that the Dutch singer wasn't supposed to be filmed at that moment?

If they did communicate it and the staff member in question ignored it despite several warnings how much of that is on Joost and how much of that is on her? and why did it lead to disqualification anyway, when it was a clear one-off incident which would not be repeated by either party?

I definitely get why Joost wouldnt want to be filmed due to the sensitive nature of the outro, which I think it why the organisers made an exception for him, but something is very off about this. It doesn't really explain why a disqualification was necessary or why the situation escalated like it did.

 

[Chalphon]

So I have been vaccuuming the Swedish news room for updates on this matter and here's what has been established so far.

The Swedish police has talked to everyone involved and are more or less done with their initial assesment. They have stated that Joost has admitted wrong doing. The target for his action was a young photographer working for the EBU. The police has been in contact with the DA/prosecutors office and it seems like this is in fact going to go to trial. Allthough that descision has not been made yet, the police believe they have enough of a case to get a verdict.

Keren Peles who are one of the songwriters of Israels entry has recieved over 4000 hate messages (and counting) through social media, most of them from the Netherlands. She had nothing to do with the incident that got Joost disqualified though and she is not the same person as the photographer who was in the altercation with Joost.

As been presented earlier in this thread, since this is a police matter, the EBU probably has been prevented or adviced by their legal team not to comment further on this situation until the investigation is over. The EBU might not have had much of a say in the matter even.

I have also seen people lashing out on SVT in this thread which I really don't get. They had nothing to do with the incident and they had nothing to do with the descision to disqualify and just like EBU their hands are probably tied when it comes to communication on the matter even though their responsibility to present anything ended when the broadcast ended so I dont really get why they would be to blame for anything.