The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Chalphon]

Also the EBU should just disclose what actually went down because the information being given is vague to really judge whether the DQ was validated or not.

About the lack of communication. It's not up to the EBU to disclose that information though now is it. It is a police investigation beeing conducted at the moment and the police will not comment on an ongoing investigation. Also, I highly doubt the Swedish police give a flippetty flopp about informing the eurovision bubble about their work. When the investigation is done it will be public info but until then we will just have to wait.

About the DQ beeing valid or not. The EBU has a rule that a participant can't perform while beeing investigated by the police. A contender is beeing investigated by the police, so they DQ that contender, according to their rules.

About the entry. The Netherlands was my personal no.1 this year, I really missed the song during the competition but I also fully understand why it wasn't there. It sucks but sh#t went down and now we have to deal with said sh#t.

 

[Rubine]

Zweedse politie over incident Joost Klein: 'Onderzoek afgerond'

De Zweedse politie heeft de zaak omtrent Joost Klein in behandeling genomen. RTL-Misdaadverslaggever Jermaine Ellenkamp (30) sprak met de woordvoerder van de politie. Zij geeft aan dat het onderzoek naar Joost is afgerond.

www.rtl.nl

This is what the Swedish police spokeswoman said to Dutch news. The video is in English. Just first introduction in Dutch.

 

[Judas]

If the statement by Avrotros is 100% accurate to what really happened there, I am fully supporting the Netherlands and believe they must protest EBU next year. A public apology would be fine if Joost feels like it, but a disqualification is an overkill.

 

[njdevils94]

Time to hear the other side of the story.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789695455682515252

 

[Lumina]

This is what the biggest German ESC site does report too. They are a serious and very reliable source who are in contact with the delegation etc. Why should they make this up? I know people like Joost and make him the victim but the truth is - he is NOT!!!
There were various incidents with him during the past days, some minor, one major, but AT LEAST he has been aggressive and hostile towards a lot of people there. This has been confirmed!

 

[0scar]

There were various incidents with him during the past days, some minor, one major, but AT LEAST he has been aggressive and hostile towards a lot of people there. This has been confirmed!

Where? I have seen this being stated several times now but no one has been able to give me any evidence or a source, even though I keep asking.

It has been confirmed by SWEDISH POLICE that it was NOT a physical altercation, and it was considered a "minor incident", no criminal offense.
Without evidence, this is going to be a case of who you want to believe I'm afraid.

 

[Lumina]

I don’t say Joost is guilty or not guilty.

All I say is that everything reported in the article linked by njdevils (the link doesn’t work but you can read it via another link) was confirmed by a serious source (biggest ESC site with connection to the officials).
The article wrote about Joost‘s permanent (!) aggressive behaviour on set.

The police won’t say more to protect the contest (thus Joost) but even if it wasn’t the broken camera that was mentioned in the article (police would call this a minor incident by the way) it was the ongoing (that’s the point!) hostile behaviour by Joost. It wasn’t just once but multiple times, so also small things can become big if they happen often. Joost‘s behavior was confirmed by many press people who observed Joost or were affected themselves.

 

[Reinventor]

I don’t say Joost is guilty or not guilty.

All I say is that everything reported in the article linked by njdevils (the link doesn’t work but you can read it via another link) was confirmed by a serious source (biggest ESC site with connection to the officials).
The article wrote about Joost‘s permanent (!) aggressive behaviour on set.

The police won’t say more to protect the contest (thus Joost) but even if it wasn’t the broken camera that was mentioned in the article (police would call this a minor incident by the way) it was the ongoing (that’s the point!) hostile behaviour by Joost. It wasn’t just once but multiple times, so also small things can become big if they happen often. Joost‘s behavior was confirmed by many press people who observed Joost or were affected themselves.

A ESC site is NOT a reliable or a serious source. It's a gossip/rumor site at best. Reliable sources in this case are the Swedish police, the EBU (who hasn't said a thing really) and the Dutch delegation. Not some site that can post whatever.

 

[Lumina]

The Dutch delegation? So other delegations who were affected by Joost or who were close to the situation are less trustworthy than the Dutch, of all delegations (who would of course speak in favour of Joost)?
Why did none of the other delegations defend him?

 

[Rubine]

Time to hear the other side of the story.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789695455682515252

Hoe credible is this source? Tobbe Ek can be such a rowdy tabloid figure. He's the one that spread the rumour that Joost had hit a woman. Did he and Aftonbladet rectify that yet?

 

[0scar]

I still haven't seen any delegation actually accusing Joost of inappropriate behaviour, not even on any ESC fansite from heresay. I have seen videos of people calling Joost "fun and nice to be around though" (Dons said this to Dutch media after the final for example).

Other delegations don't defend him in this matter because there where not at the incident as well so they don't dare to say anything, which is fair. So not a very solid point you're making.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think what Joost did is nice, smart, friendly or how you want to call it, it is stupid and he shouldn't have done it, even if it isn't a criminal offense and even it's just verbal and not physical, but I absolutely hate this trial by media without any evidence provided, and the disqualification is way out of proportion.

You're allowed to have a different opinion on this matter.

 

[Reinventor]

The Dutch delegation? So other delegations who were affected by Joost or who were close to the situation are less trustworthy than the Dutch, of all delegations (who would of course speak in favour of Joost)?
Why did none of the other delegations defend him?

Why would any of the other delegations been present when Joost got off stage, or even paying attention to him getting off stage? He was the last performer, there was no performer waiting to get on stage, they were all in the green room when this took place. Also, some artists have shown support for Joost.

Also AVRO/TROS is probably the broadcaster in the Netherlands who takes the least risks, if they believe Joost did something bad, they'd be the first to say "well, we regret what happened and accept the punishment of the EBU". The fact that this broadcaster stands by Joost 100% says a lot.

 

[Lumina]

I was talking about his behaviour multiple times to staff and press. Not THE one incident. Maybe it was the sum of his behaviour that led to DQ. Anyway, that's speculation and I stand with NOT guilty until proven otherwise. It's just what I heard from a reliable source. It's not only a fansite but a serious ESC site with connection to official people behind the scenes.

 

[0scar]

Also AVRO/TROS is probably the broadcaster in the Netherlands who takes the least risks, if they believe Joost did something bad, they'd be the first to say "well, we regret what happened and accept the punishment of the EBU". The fact that this broadcaster stands by Joost 100% says a lot.

This. Believe us, AVROTROS would be the first to put their own house in order.
Also, ofcourse there is some subjectivity of the broadcaster as it is their own responsibility and own act, but forgive me for believing the statement the only reliable source we have who where actually involved in the incident gave, instead of some random Eurovision fan blogs who report on hearsay.

If evidence proves otherwise I promise I'll be the first one to admit it, but currently yeah, I believe the only evidence we actually have, which is partly from Swedish police.

 

[b4ld3r]

Hoe credible is this source? Tobbe Ek can be such a rowdy tabloid figure. He's the one that spread the rumour that Joost had hit a woman. Did he and Aftonbladet rectify that yet?

Don't really understand where the international fans opinion about Aftonbladet comes from. When Ek asked Måneskin about the rumours maybe? When it comes to news about the contest, Aftonbladet are basically as close you can get to official given their contacts within SVT, they are on a first name basis with everyone basically.

The new information in the article is that he apparently caused her camera to break. The main reason as to why I took the Dutch broadcaster at its word was because I could not imagine SVT and the Swedish delegation covering for our act. And I assumed their Dutch equivalent were the same. But the dissonance between the stories are really noteworthy.

 

[Lumina]

Don't really understand where the international fans opinion about Aftonbladet comes from.

I don’t know if you know the German BILD Zeitung. BILD is the biggest German newspaper and is what you call the yellow press. Wannabe intellectual call others stupid who read it because it’s very sensational-written. If they would explain it to a foreigner, foreigner would think it’s a gossip mag with little value.

However, BILD is actually the one with the fastest information, they cover every news before they are in other magazines and in most of the times a very ! reliable source actually, only - as mentioned above - written a bit in a sensational language, less serious language than other magazines.

I think this is comparable. If this story was written in the BILD here, it would be trustworthy despite being yellow press.

I believe it’s the same with Aftonbladet.

 

[shameless]

I don’t know if you know the German BILD Zeitung. BILD is the biggest German newspaper and is what you call the yellow press. Wannabe intellectual call others stupid who read it because it’s very sensational-written. If they would explain it to a foreigner, foreigner would think it’s a gossip mag with little value.

However, BILD is actually the one with the fastest information, they cover every news before they are in other magazines and in most of the times a very ! reliable source actually, only - as mentioned above - written a bit in a sensational language, less serious language than other magazines.

I think this is comparable. If this story was written in the BILD here, it would be trustworthy despite being yellow press.

I believe it’s the same with Aftonbladet.

Are you serious? BILD has created so much bullshit and destroyed lifes with it over decades, partly being responsible for the climate in germany (or maybe germans are in need of some bullshit magazine like BILD). I cannot believe someone would call it reliable. It is in fact a synonyme for HOAX in German and the fact that much of what they cover ends up being correct doesn't make up for all the lies they spread and hysteria they created over the course of years.

I recommend to read Heinrich Bölls 50 year old novel "Die verlorene Ehre der Katharina Blum" (he won the Nobel price for it) where it is exactly about BILD and it could be from today.

 

[Rubine]

But the Aftonbladet writes that Joost Klein is not allowed to leave Malmo. Someone translated this from the article. I don’t know I don’t read Swedish.

But Joost is back in the Netherlands.

So this point is already untrue.

For now I will trust the information of the Swedish police. And not some news tabloid.

We don’t know and we should STOP speculating. It is so upsetting to me. I’m not saying Joost in quilty or not quilty

But this hits personal. I once was accused of something outrageous by a client. It took two months to clear my name. But my reputation at work was damaged.

Please please stop speculating

 

[b4ld3r]

Yeah, of course entirely possible that they have received bad information in regards to this case. I think Ek said in a podcast I listened to that he had received informations after the second semi final that Joost "might have hit somebody", which doesn't seem to be entirely true (paraphrasing here).

On the whole they are pretty sensationalist and not always trustworthy. But their schlager coverage is the best and most comprehensive, the only other ones who are on similar levels in terms of access to SVT are some podcasts and then gay magazine QX, whose editor in chief was one of the two panelists in Melfest this year. This is of course EBU not SVT but likely some Swedes were involved?

Agree that we should all stop speculating, after the police are finished then the picture will become clear.

 

[NeoTen]

So, the EBU has not adjusted the rank from the jury show, so the votes for can be calculated as some other countries got 10 points but are listed "3rd" by a countries juries but the 2nd country is missing in the data,
So, apparently this is the jury vote for the Dutch;

10p >
8p>
7p>
5p>
3p>
>1p

12th place in the jury show, with 58 points.