The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Smudy]

He got 2nd in semi 2 after Israel.

 

[Toposcoupe]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1789442302059901411

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

The Netherlands would have been Italy's 10 pointer in the televoting aswell probably. He had a very good televote result in the sneak peak offered by RAI at the end of Semi 2.

 

[BorisBubbles]

Those 58 jury points would not have been enough to crack the top five, i don't think. especially since Eden beat him in the semifinal as well.

Frankly, I didn't really miss the Netherlands in this line-up either. The line-up was strong enough to sustain me even without his presence.

Besides Joost single-handedly put a stop to the Österdahl Era of Eurovision (I assume - surely he resigns soon, or else is sacked by the EBU) which is an accolade in and of itself.

 

[b4ld3r]

Forgot to mention it after the semi for obvious reasons, but seeing the complete performance on an HD feed made my initial (severe) disappointment go away. Becomes better the more I watch it, the minimalism complements the song well. And the LEDs work great, not comparable to Gabbani at all. Plenty of close-ups as well. The best song, with a good staging.

EDIT: Deleted the last part of the post lol

 

[Himan]

Those 58 jury points would not have been enough to crack the top five, i don't think. especially since Eden beat him in the semifinal as well.

Frankly, I didn't really miss the Netherlands in this line-up either. The line-up was strong enough to sustain me even without his presence.

Besides Joost single-handedly put a stop to the Österdahl Era of Eurovision (I assume - surely he resigns soon, or else is sacked by the EBU) which is an accolade in and of itself.

It was close to Israel though. It's top 6 definitely. He probably would have gotten more jury points without this nonsense. Oh well. Like I said it wouldn't have won.

 

[Reinventor]

Just keep your hands off a woman and their stuff when asked. Even when they annoy you. I don't get why people keep defending him. Next year :NL: be back with some older act that has a very calm demeanour. (Danny Vera-esque)

He didn't touch the woman. I don't get why this woman gets a free pass to do whatever just because she's a woman. Sure, break agreements, be annoying as hell, you can do whatever, you're a woman! Where's the equality in that?

 

[Miloutchi]

This just seems so poorly handled. It wasn’t good behavior on Joost’s part for sure, but a public apology would have been more than appropriate in this situation.

A disqualification is just so disproportionate to what happened, that no one is talking about his behavior anymore and they are all rushing to defend Joost, me included. I still think it’s ridiculous what happened. Especially if you compare it to other things that have been happening this week.

 

[LoveHate]

I hope my countries withdraws and never comes back. I tried to watch the show, but I just want to cry and turned off the tv.

I hope that heads will roll (figuratively) in the EBU, and that you’ll be back in Switzerland in 2025!

 

[BorisBubbles]

The Dutch definitely have grounds to demand a few resignations, or else they withdraw from 2025. I expect them to do just that.

AVROTROS doesn't want to be away from ESC; the Dutch fanbase is massive, and gives them a lot of revenue. So let them use that leverage to force a few changes at the top.

Also the EBU should just disclose what actually went down because the information being given is vague to really judge whether the DQ was validated or not.

 

[FitzyUK]

It is a shame what happened as was a big fan of the song but until the full details come out I won't comment on if it fair or not. EBU have got a lot wrong this year with how they have handled things.

 

[MAD20]

If I were Dutch and the issue results being a disproportionate measure from the EBU, I would immediately sign for Joost Klein representing The Netherlands next year.

 

[gigi_copp3]

If I were Dutch and the issue results being a disproportionate measure from the EBU, I would immediately sign for Joost Klein representing The Netherlands next year.

In my opinion Joost doesn't want his name to be ever associated with Eurovision again

 

[Ted Talks]

I see some are still trying to blame the alleged victim or just making clear of their misogyny because the alleged victim is a woman. You wouldn’t know were in 2024 going off some of the posts…

Anyway, can’t say I missed Joost last night and the final wasn’t lacking without him or Europapa.

If he’s cleared and wants to return next year, that’s fine with me. Equally if the Netherlands pulls out or stays away for a couple years to ‘cool down’, then that’s fine too.

 

[Rubine]

I see some are still trying to blame the alleged victim or just making clear of their misogyny because the alleged victim is a woman. You wouldn’t know were in 2024 going off some of the posts…

Anyway, can’t say I missed Joost last night and the final wasn’t lacking without him or Europapa.

If he’s cleared and wants to return next year, that’s fine with me. Equally if the Netherlands pulls out or stays away for a couple years to ‘cool down’, then that’s fine too.

I agree that we should not blame the alleged victim.

I understand you didn’t miss Joost Klein, but a lot of people did. I tell you from my personal perceived experience it was devastating and heart breaking.

I hope soon he gets cleared, as I believe! I hope he will NEVER return to Eurovision.

 

[0scar]

I see some are still trying to blame the alleged victim or just making clear of their misogyny because the alleged victim is a woman. You wouldn’t know were in 2024 going off some of the posts…

I'm not really sure who you're alluding to but personally I haven't seen victim blaming because of the alleged victim being a woman tbh.
Most people say they'll condemn Joost if he's guilty, thing is that the little information we have suggests that it was such a minor incident and based on context that disqualification seems disproportionate and honestly devastating for an artist and delegation who worked so hard for this.

Violence is NEVER an answer but from what I've gathered, Joost specifically asked the woman not to film him several times because he was emotional after his performance and remembering his parents, and because the woman kept filming, he made a threatening movement towards her. Not a good move from him, but it also sounds like his personal space was invaded in a vulnerable moment.
There are two sides to this story.

To flatten the situation to man make a threatening movement at a woman and woman = victim so man = bad, well.. that's not a good look either. Loses all the nuance in this story, which is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.

 

[Ted Talks]

I'm not really sure who you're alluding to but personally I haven't seen victim blaming because of the alleged victim being a woman tbh.
Most people say they'll condemn Joost if he's guilty, thing is that the little information we have suggests that it was such a minor incident and based on context that disqualification seems disproportionate and honestly devastating for an artist and delegation who worked so hard for this.

Violence is NEVER an answer but from what I've gathered, Joost specifically asked the woman not to film him several times because he was emotional after his performance and remembering his parents, and because the woman kept filming, he made a threatening movement towards her. Not a good move from him, but it also sounds like his personal space was invaded in a vulnerable moment.
There are two sides to this story.

To flatten the situation to man make a threatening movement at a woman and woman = victim so man = bad, well.. that's not a good look either. Loses all the nuance in this story, which is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.

Well I'd say the post below fits the criteria of victim blaming purely because of the alleged victim's gender. If that isn't, then I don't know what is.

He didn't touch the woman. I don't get why this woman gets a free pass to do whatever just because she's a woman. Sure, break agreements, be annoying as hell, you can do whatever, you're a woman! Where's the equality in that?

It is like some on here are being deliberately blind to the problem and still have treated it as Joost is good no matter what. The allegation has been made, therefore it needs investigating. If he is cleared of any wrongdoing, then fair enough.

I'm not going to comment on what is alleged to have happened as we've only got the Dutch broadcaster's statement on it - and given their position their word cannot be taken as gospel due to their closeness to Joost, for obvious reasons. What they have claimed may turn out to be true, but until the investigation concludes, all we know if alleged inappropriate behaviour happened and is alleged to have been committed by Joost against a female member of staff.

 

[Reinventor]

I still see people shouting guilty until proven innocent here. Ugh, does this place have a blocking feature? Or do I just leave all together to never see the likes of the person above me ever again?

 

[Ted Talks]

I still see people shouting guilty until proven innocent here. Ugh, does this place have a blocking feature? Or do I just leave all together to never see the likes of the person above me ever again?

Well if you hadn't posted something quite clearly misogynistic then maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have got a reaction.

And, you still seem to miss the point about what the investigation entails and what you do in these circumstances when alleged victims are involved.

But, if you never want to see me again, there is an ignore feature. I'm not that petty so I won't do the same to you, but its there. If you go altogether, oh well. Bye.

 

[Uto]

I still see people shouting guilty until proven innocent here. Ugh, does this place have a blocking feature? Or do I just leave all together to never see the likes of the person above me ever again?

It has a blocking feature. Click the name, there's an 'ignore' button there. I get it, you literally ask for equality but somehow that is reconstructed as being misogynistic. It's pretty daft.