TURKEY 2013 - not taking part

[LalehForWD]

Well last time the financial contributions were revealed, the United Kingdom, France then Germany paid a lot more than anybody else. Id imagine that that's even more so the case these days seeing as neither Italy nor Spain has any money.

And they have a much reduced cultural and musical impact on Europe than the other 3 do.

In Britain possibly. 3

 

[toinou03]

Lesser in what way?

The Spaniard are nearly half less than The German, and they are less rich, you must see it on TV... Probably, if Italy wouldn't have withdrawn, we would have had a Big 4 without Spain... Don't forget that Big 4 was created when Germany was surprisingly relegated in 1996 and Spain was nearly relegated at the end of the '90s. It put the Eurovision in a danger zone

The concept of Eurovision is countries competing on equal terms, it should be about the songs and not whether you are politically important or not.

If we would only look at populations then Russia and Turkey are more important then because they are simply bigger countries than the UK, France and Italy.

True though it have something frustrating that our votes count the same as a jury in San Marino that we don't know of it's fair or not...
Plus it contradicts people saying that a jury of 4 people can't count like thousands of people, as our millions of viewers and voters count like hundreads in tiny countries, but we don't care...
And contrary to lots of people, I find normal that big countries like Russia or Turkey can qualify each year or almost, as they also represent a big something ! But Turkey entered ESC in 1975 and Russia in 1994...

 

[LalehForWD]

What about Norway or Sweden?

Of course they should not be able to become Big countries. If anybody could join, there's no point in having the rule at all!

This takes the all time price!!!

 

[A-lister]

True though it have something frustrating that our votes count the same as a jury in San Marino that we don't know of it's fair or not...
Plus it contradicts people saying that a jury of 4 people can't count like thousands of people, as our millions of viewers and voters count like hundreads in tiny countries, but we don't care...
And contrary to lots of people, I find normal that big countries like Russia or Turkey can qualify each year or almost, as they also represent a big something ! But Turkey entered ESC in 1975 and Russia in 1994...

I'm not in favor of juries, but I'm in favor of fairness. This whole concept would be useless if countries had different voting power based on their populations. It's the charm that small countries can compete on equal terms with big ones and that what counts (or atleast in theory) is only what you come up with musically.

Not exactly sure what you meant with Turkey and Russia there...

 

[toinou03]

I'm not in favor of juries, but I'm in favor of fairness. This whole concept would be useless if countries had different voting power based on their populations. It's the charm that small countries can compete on equal terms with big ones and that what counts (or atleast in theory) is only what you come up with musically.

Not exactly sure what you meant with Turkey and Russia there...

I agree.
I dealt with Russia and Turkey because somebedy pointed out that they are big countries also.

 

[escandesc]

Of course they should not be able to become Big countries. If anybody could join, there's no point in having the rule at all!

Then, Russia is not ''anybody''? Well, it seems to me that your are basing your thoughts on politics. Russia, France and UK play an important role in world's politics. Russia is important, so it can become one of those Big 6. am I right?

 

[toinou03]

Then, Russia is not ''anybody''? Well, it seems to me that your are basing your thoughts on politics. Russia, France and UK play an important role in world's politics. Russia is important, so it can become one of those Big 6. am I right?

Somehow, but in the other hand, thee 6th bigest contributor is... the Netherlands !

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Then, Russia is not ''anybody''? Well, it seems to me that your are basing your thoughts on politics. Russia, France and UK play an important role in world's politics. Russia is important, so it can become one of those Big 6. am I right?

Well first of all, I know why you brought up Norway and Sweden. Because they are Western countries, you wanted for me to say yes they should be allowed to become "Big" and then hold it against me that Im against the East.
The truth is I love Norway and Sweden in Eurovision, they're two of my very favourite countries. But no they should not be allowed to pre-qualify, because if they did, like Turkey, it would give the impression that anybody can pre-qualify, just so long as they pay a bit more. We cannot have that situation - we have more than enough pre-qualified participants with 5+the host, and if Russia were to join we'd then have 7 out of 25 pre-qualified, which is quite a significant number.
Yes Russia is an important country, culturally and musically in particular, and they have the ability to raise their EBU contribution to get "Big" status, so it should have the right to do that (and I think they do have the right - one year if I remember rightly, they had the option to join, but they themselves chose not to because they always qualify anyway). And in the interests of fairness (so that the "Big" countries arent just Western), I very much support Russia making up a Big 6.

 

[DanielLuis]

To be honest I agree that there shouldn't be more big countries. It's ridiculous to just keep adding countries and countries to the big group. How many semi-final qualifiers would we have then?
If new countries are to be added, others that are already big should be replaced. But I think it should stay as it is.

 

[Yamarus]

It's sad about Turkey, especially with all those pop stars whose songs literally scream "I'M A EUROVISION WINNER".

 

[wayneofway]

IRONY: It's weird lots of people complain about turkish diaspora for televoting, while they mention they're sad since turkey is not going to be a part of ESC next year. I think all countries should be happy now as you all claim Turkey always get unfair votes. Now other countries can get fair votes instead of Turkey. You are right, turkey is only country (!) in ESC which gets some guaranted votes from certain countries.

FACT: Turkey has been a very colorful country in last 10 year contests with its songs. When Turkey didn't have an interesting enough song, it didn't qualify from semi final (2011). So judging Turkey's success as a reflection of diaspora could be presented actual good reason to withdraw from ESC by TRT. I watched an interview of TRT representative about ESC. He says Turkey pays as much as big five to EBU and it provides televiewers to ESC more than all big five. But still big five has benefits over other countries.

Although I would like to see Turkey in ESC, TRT is totally right about big five complain. I think not only Turkey, also other countries should critique this nonsense big five rule.

 

[Jim]

IRONY: It's weird lots of people complain about turkish diaspora for televoting, while they mention they're sad since turkey is not going to be a part of ESC next year. I think all countries should be happy now as you all claim Turkey always get unfair votes. Now other countries can get fair votes instead of Turkey. You are right, turkey is only country (!) in ESC which gets some guaranted votes from certain countries.

FACT: Turkey has been a very colorful country in last 10 year contests with its songs. When Turkey didn't have an interesting enough song, it didn't qualify from semi final (2011). So judging Turkey's success as a reflection of diaspora could be presented actual good reason to withdraw from ESC by TRT. I watched an interview of TRT representative about ESC. He says Turkey pays as much as big five to EBU and it provides televiewers to ESC more than all big five. But still big five has benefits over other countries.

Although I would like to see Turkey in ESC, TRT is totally right about big five complain. I think not only Turkey, also other countries should critique this nonsense big five rule.

In my opinion, Turkey is a big and very important country but if it will not be in the final or even if not participates in the contest, it's not a big deal. Turkey is big and important country and everyone already miss Turkey, but if you ask people from USA, from Brazil, from Japan or from Nigeria to say some countries of Europe, surely they will say: France, UK, Italy, Spain or Germany and not Turkey or Greece or Bulgaria. Everything I'm saying now for Turkey it's true for many European countries and also for Russia, I think that Russia pays more money because it is a larger country. I agree with the BIG 5 rule. They can't be missing. Of course this is my opinion though!

 

[wayneofway]

Jim, your way of thinking is a little misleading. Importance of ESC is nothing related with familarity of the countries in America or far east. This is a European contest. Most of Americans and Asians are not even aware of that if such a contest exists. Also Turkey and Greece are not the countries emerged recently. All people know about them. Greece underlies today's modern Europe. In my opinion, Greece is important as much Germany, Italy or France in Europe. You can question Turkey as it has never been full European country. In theory, maybe Turkey is not important as it's not fully European country but in practice ESC is going to lose lots of audience this year because of absence of Turkey.

 

[Matt]

IRONY: It's weird lots of people complain about turkish diaspora for televoting, while they mention they're sad since turkey is not going to be a part of ESC next year. I think all countries should be happy now as you all claim Turkey always get unfair votes. Now other countries can get fair votes instead of Turkey. You are right, turkey is only country (!) in ESC which gets some guaranted votes from certain countrie.

I think most people are sad for the fans and the country itself, it sucks when you're home country isn't represented. So just because there is a diaspora issue doesn't mean people can be sad for the country and its fans/people.

 

[wayneofway]

I think most people are sad for the fans and the country itself, it sucks when you're home country isn't represented. So just because there is a diaspora issue doesn't mean people can be sad for the country and its fans/people.

I think if there's a diaspora issue which is affecting ESC results seriously, this way is better. I witness lots of people blaim Turkey for failure of their country every year as they claim Turkey automatically qualifies and takes top 10 although it has a bad song. Now ESC without Turkey is a more fair song contest. No diaspora and probability of a bad song in top 10.

 

[Jim]

I think if there's a diaspora issue which is affecting ESC results seriously, this way is better. I witness lots of people blaim Turkey for failure of their country every year as they claim Turkey automatically qualifies and takes top 10 although it has a bad song. Now ESC without Turkey is a more fair song contest. No diaspora and probability of a bad song in top 10.

I don't agree! I want Turkey back!

 

[Impressive]

I think if there's a diaspora issue which is affecting ESC results seriously, this way is better. I witness lots of people blaim Turkey for failure of their country every year as they claim Turkey automatically qualifies and takes top 10 although it has a bad song. Now ESC without Turkey is a more fair song contest. No diaspora and probability of a bad song in top 10.

I don't agree at all! Like Jim said, most of people want Turkey back.

But I agree with one point with you, as I saw comments on Youtube, mostly Turkish people every year blame respesenter even respesenters take good results.
For Mor ve Ötesi, people saying "Why isn't it English", for Can Bonomo "This is what we excepted, Can sucks!!", maNga is the only respesenter who could take Turkish people's attention and loves. Taking 4ths, 7ths are really not bad results at all.

 

[wyq614]

I want Turkey back ...

As for the Big 5 rule, I certainly prefer all the countries compete fairly, but considering the voting situation of ESC that the votes of western Europe flow to the East and Eastern European countries vote each other, I'm afraid that if we no longer see Big 5 automatically in the Grand Final, Eurovision will soon become an Eastern European Song Contest, so practically, I think we should keep the Big 5 Rule.

 

[wyq614]

As for Turkey, the Contest can be unfair, but the most important point is that every participating country selects their favorite or best pop music masterpiece to the viewers all over the world. This means much more than votes, points and ranks, doesn't it?

 

[wayneofway]

I don't agree at all! Like Jim said, most of people want Turkey back.

But I agree with one point with you, as I saw comments on Youtube, mostly Turkish people every year blame respesenter even respesenters take good results.
For Mor ve Ötesi, people saying "Why isn't it English", for Can Bonomo "This is what we excepted, Can sucks!!", maNga is the only respesenter who could take Turkish people's attention and loves. Taking 4ths, 7ths are really not bad results at all.

In Turkey, people blame everything. Lots of people even criticize Serap's winner song Every way that I can since it was in English. So you cannot prevent this, or when you send in turkish (like more ve otesi) some others criticize why not in English.

On the other hand, this diaspora accuse put me off ESC. Before Sertap's win, the interest of people to ESC was quite low. As Sertap won, the interest of people and TRT increased in Turkey. TRT started to select the singers and songs very carefully. Previously the goal was to show some Turkish stuff in ESC. Because in Turkey, people have that common belief as Europeans have biases for Turkish people. They're never going to select a turkish entry as winner. But after Sertap's win this view has changed to get another winner and send an interesting song. You can observe this difference very clearly. Before Sertap, there was almost no Turkish entry in English but in last 10 years all songs were in English except 2 of them.

If I rank ESC Turkish entries, most of them is going to be from last 10 years. At least in my opinion, it was not just coincidence or diaspora. Sertap's win pushed everything to send better entries. Especially seeing 4 rock songs in last 8 years for me was quite fun.