TURKEY 2013 - not taking part

[evilperson]

If Turkey is actually protesting the Big 5 and other recent rule changes, good for them. At least someone finally decided to step to the EBU and that obnoxious ESC committee.

 

[DanielLuis]

The reason why I think they shouldn't enter in 2013 even if they want to is because the deadline has passed almost a month ago. If EBU would still let them enter, that shows that some countries can do whatever the hell they want, and pass unpunished.
If they want to return they have to wait until 2014, and that's their own fault.

 

[CC92]

By the way,for me,ANY country that could come back,is positive,because i want 2 semis to have equal number of countries.

As much as I want comebacks, I'm not supporting a sore loser that uses pressure as a tool for coming back. So if Turkey will comeback now everyone knows that they bought EBU and get some special treatment, that's certainly not something to support.

Funny thing is they are complaining about rules that once have been introduced because others had acted as sore losers and put the EBU under pressure. xwhistle

 

[DanielLuis]

Funny thing is they are complaining about rules that once have been introduced because others had acted as sore losers and put the EBU under pressure. xwhistle

Turkey finished 7th. And that's so unfair for an entry with such a great quality has "Love me back", that they withdrawn. If you ask me, that's being a sore loser.

Besides, nobody else has complained about the new voting system but Turkey. You know that the only reason they complained is because they dont get the 50% bonus from the diaspora. Don't be naive.

 

[CC92]

Funny thing is they are complaining about rules that once have been introduced because others had acted as sore losers and put the EBU under pressure. xwhistle

Turkey finished 7th. And that's so unfair for an entry with such a great quality has "Love me back", that they withdrawn. If you ask me, that's being a sore loser.

Besides, nobody else has complained about the new voting system but Turkey. You know that the only reason they complained is because they dont get the 50% bonus from the diaspora. Don't be naive.

Well, nobody but Turkey has (openly) withdrawn because of the 'jury' system. That's a difference. Taste naturally differs. In my opinion, for example, Love me back should of been Top3.

And lol, as if Turkey had placed 22nd (eliminated in the semis actually) in the public vote w/o diaspora.

 

[A-lister]

If Turkey is actually protesting the Big 5 and other recent rule changes, good for them. At least someone finally decided to step to the EBU and that obnoxious ESC committee.

If the reasons for TRT's behavior would have been pure and for an honest ESC, but that's not the case here. They want special treatment, either to be directly included in the final, or they want to get rid of the juries NOT because it's a fault system, but because they can't rely on their biased diaspora votes as much as previously.

I'm not a fan of the jury system in ESC, but I'm not a fan of TRT's reasons for protesting either which are totally egoistic and unrealistic.

 

[A-lister]

Funny thing is they are complaining about rules that once have been introduced because others had acted as sore losers and put the EBU under pressure. xwhistle

You know very well I'm not a big fan of the jury system, but two wrongs doesn't make one right does it? I'm not supporting sore losers period, but both of us know that there will be flaws with both 100% televoting or with 50/50 system... Turkey is whining not because they want fairness to the contest, but because they want the years back when their diaspora had even more input on the outcome.

 

[A-lister]

Turkey finished 7th. And that's so unfair for an entry with such a great quality has "Love me back", that they withdrawn. If you ask me, that's being a sore loser.

Besides, nobody else has complained about the new voting system but Turkey. You know that the only reason they complained is because they dont get the 50% bonus from the diaspora. Don't be naive.

As for my personal taste, I totally agree with the juries' opinion on 'Love me back'... but leaving subjective taste aside, the second sentence there is so true... and TRT have even blatantly said that was the problem basically.

 

[evilperson]

If the reasons for TRT's behavior would have been pure and for an honest ESC, but that's not the case here. They want special treatment, either to be directly included in the final, or they want to get rid of the juries NOT because it's a fault system, but because they can't rely on their biased diaspora votes as much as previously.

I'm not a fan of the jury system in ESC, but I'm not a fan of TRT's reasons for protesting either which are totally egoistic and unrealistic.

So what if they want special treatment? If the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain get it, Turkey can't have it as well?

The system changed to pander to the West and Turkey gets screwed in that process. So they aren't allowed to complain? UK and France complained and got the juries, but that's ok?

Turkey is just being upfront about it unlike the Big 5 who pull their strings behind the scenes to get a leg up. Wait a minute, wasn't the Big 4/5 made because Germany complained? I guess the German broadcaster can't take it when they don't qualify to the final.

 

[A-lister]

So what if they want special treatment? If the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain get it, Turkey can't have it as well?

The system changed to pander to the West and Turkey gets screwed in that process. So they aren't allowed to complain? UK and France complained and got the juries, but that's ok?

Turkey is just being upfront about it unlike the Big 5 who pull their strings behind the scenes to get a leg up. Wait a minute, wasn't the Big 4/5 made because Germany complained? I guess the German broadcaster can't take it when they don't qualify to the final.

Two wrongs doesn't make one right. I don't like sore losers and whiny countries PERIOD, but so the others behavior makes the Turkish one ok then?

I was never a fan of the 'big' system, but if they ACTUALLY pay more than the others then it IS fair in a sense... so is Turkey ready to pay as much then? Or they just want special treatment without giving anything back?

 

[CC92]

Funny thing is they are complaining about rules that once have been introduced because others had acted as sore losers and put the EBU under pressure. xwhistle

You know very well I'm not a big fan of the jury system, but two wrongs doesn't make one right does it? I'm not supporting sore losers period, but both of us know that there will be flaws with both 100% televoting or with 50/50 system... Turkey is whining not because they want fairness to the contest, but because they want the years back when their diaspora had even more input on the outcome.

It's good to see that you know the "real" reasons for their withdrawal. I was just pointing the fact that they (officially) turn their back on the contest because of rule changes which were actually done in order to jolly other sore losers (as you put it) along.
TRT should not be issued a gagging order on just because they benefit from one (the lesser) evil. The 'jury' vote is bullcrap (even if for other things than diminishing Turkey's diaspora advantage) and they have all right to state the obvious truth. Period.

 

[evilperson]

Two wrongs doesn't make one right. I don't like sore losers and whiny countries PERIOD, but so the others behavior makes the Turkish one ok then?

I was never a fan of the 'big' system, but if they ACTUALLY pay more than the others then it IS fair in a sense... so is Turkey ready to pay as much then? Or they just want special treatment without giving anything back?

Yes it does, if the EBU wants to set a precedent that it caves into the demands of a few, it sends a clear message when it ignores another country that isn't being lavished with favouritism.

It has been alleged for years that Russia and Turkey pay more than what Spain pays (and maybe some others). We don't have figures from everywhere so we don't know. In any case, Turkey and Russia are bigger markets than any of the Big 5 - population wise (except Germany in Turkey's case).

On top of everything, Italy, who has pretty much been giving the finger to the contest for years, comes back and is automatically inducted into this club. What kind of message does that send?

 

[A-lister]

It's good to see that you know the "real" reasons for their withdrawal. I was just pointing the fact that they (officially) turn their back on the contest because of rule changes which were actually done in order to jolly other sore losers (as you put it) along.
TRT should not be issued a gagging order on just because they benefit from one (the lesser) evil. The 'jury' vote is bullcrap (even if for other things than diminishing Turkey's diaspora advantage) and they have all right to state the obvious truth. Period.

Well, TRT already explained the 'reasons' and it was all very blatant to me

Firstly, the juries didn't have that much impact when it came to Turkey's result imo, so you're ok with blind nationalist diaspora impacting the results then? How is that fair? Why is TRT even complaining in the first place? WITH 50% juries system, they still ended up top. 5 with a messy out of breath performance (2009), top. 3 in 2010, and top. 10 in 2012... what's there really to whine about? Their results are still good and their diaspora are still impacting alot, if juries were actively voting against them then explain their positions 2009-2010? So they missed the final and top. 10 ONE year out of the those? Boo hoo!

This is complex, I highly dislike the juries, but I'm honest enough to say that the full televoting system also had its flaws and in the Turkey case I'd say TRT are just acting like sore losers without ANY actual good reasons!

 

[A-lister]

Yes it does, if the EBU wants to set a precedent that it caves into the demands of a few, it sends a clear message when it ignores another country that isn't being lavished with favouritism.

It has been alleged for years that Russia and Turkey pay more than what Spain pays (and maybe some others). We don't have figures from everywhere so we don't know. In any case, Turkey and Russia are bigger markets than any of the Big 5 - population wise (except Germany in Turkey's case).

On top of everything, Italy, who has pretty much been giving the finger to the contest for years, comes back and is automatically inducted into this club. What kind of message does that send?

So again you mean that two wrongs make one right?

Look, I don't know how much the countries actually pay, and if that's really the case that Spain pay LESS than Turkey and Russia (numbers on that?), then of course it's unfair.

Yes, I totally agree about the message with Italy's comeback.

But, doesn't the rule just state that the biggest funders to EBU period (and not just ESC) what counts here? Maybe Italy and Spain does indeed pay more to EBU annually than Turkey and Russia?

 

[evilperson]

So again you mean that two wrongs make one right?

Look, I don't know how much the countries actually pay, and if that's really the case that Spain pay LESS than Turkey and Russia (numbers on that?), then of course it's unfair.

Yes, I totally agree about the message with Italy's comeback.

But, doesn't the rule just state that the biggest funders to EBU period (and not just ESC) what counts here? Maybe Italy and Spain does indeed pay more to EBU annually than Turkey and Russia?

Yes I'm totally behind two wrongs making a right when it's justified and I think it is. I don't get why Turkey should get so much flack over it when it's been happening with the Big 5 for years.

It's been implied in the past that EBU fees are decided upon by population. Russia exceeds everyone and Turkey outranks all but Germany. I don't have the figures for all of the countries so I don't know. If they do pay more, then they should be a part of the Big 5, 6, 7.

But the whole concept of the Big 5 is just an EBU circle jerk to try and keep the biggest sore losers in check.

 

[A-lister]

Yes I'm totally behind two wrongs making a right when it's justified and I think it is. I don't get why Turkey should get so much flack over it when it's been happening with the Big 5 for years.

It's been implied in the past that EBU fees are decided upon by population. Russia exceeds everyone and Turkey outranks all but Germany. I don't have the figures for all of the countries so I don't know. If they do pay more, then they should be a part of the Big 5, 6, 7.

But the whole concept of the Big 5 is just an EBU circle jerk to try and keep the biggest sore losers in check.

I don't think two wrongs ever make one right, I don't believe in such solutions because then in the end everyone will find something to whine about. In Turkey's case it's not justified, since apparently if we look at the results it's not as if they have faired much worse with juries... I think out of 4 years, 3 times in the top. 10 (1x top. 3, 1x top. 5 and 1xtop10) is pretty good!

As far as I'm concerned, some countries do pay more than others even with less population, but you're saying the Big 5 paying more is just an illusion then? Well, if that's so then it would have been known already.

But then again, I was never a fan of the big system in the first place... but the solution is not bringing more countries to the "big" ones, I'd say they should just end it then.

 

[Matt]

I don't believe any of these rumors are true. Turkey withdrew for their stated reasons so why would they wanna take part now so desperately?

 

[A-lister]

I don't believe any of these rumors are true. Turkey withdrew for their stated reasons so why would they wanna take part now so desperately?

EBU are quite easy so maybe some of their pressure tactics worked?

But I also don't believe these rumors.

 

[Matt]

EBU are quite easy so maybe some of their pressure tactics worked?

But I also don't believe these rumors.

What tactics? Getting rid of juries and/or making them part of the the Big 5/6???
Cause I don't think either of these things are going to happen.

 

[A-lister]

What tactics? Getting rid of juries and/or making them part of the the Big 5/6???
Cause I don't think either of these things are going to happen.

The only thing I could see is EBU letting them in the Big system... EBU won't drop the jury system anytime soon I think because then others will start to whine