TURKEY 2013 - not taking part

[wyq614]

I don't believe any of these rumors are true. Turkey withdrew for their stated reasons so why would they wanna take part now so desperately?

Turkey wants to be integrated to Europe, not only politically but also culturally, so for them Eurovision may have a special meaning or something. I don't totally believe what I had just posted, but anyway I think TRT will return to Eurovision in 2014 even though the jury problem is not resolved in the way they like.

Let's forget how much many each country pays, as the western votes flow to the east and the eastern vote don't return to the west, it may be fair to have Big 5 western European countries.

Finally, I do hope Turkey back. Let's see if the "rumour" is really a rumour.

PS: Why are the Turkish members saying nothing while we are in a heated discussion for Turkey's position in the ESC?

 

[A-lister]

Turkey wants to be integrated to Europe, not only politically but also culturally, so for them Eurovision may have a special meaning or something. I don't totally believe what I had just posted, but anyway I think TRT will return to Eurovision in 2014 even though the jury problem is not resolved in the way they like.

Let's forget how much many each country pays, as the western votes flow to the east and the eastern vote don't return to the west, it may be fair to have Big 5 western European countries.

Finally, I do hope Turkey back. Let's see if the "rumour" is really a rumour.

PS: Why are the Turkish members saying nothing while we are in a heated discussion for Turkey's position in the ESC?

Turkey want to be integrated into Europe culturally!? Maybe 10 years ago perhaps...

 

[Matt]

The only thing I could see is EBU letting them in the Big system... EBU won't drop the jury system anytime soon I think because then others will start to whine

Even that I don't see happening. According to most sources, Russia pays a whole lot more than Turkey. Everything that's floating around online are just speculations and rumors. Just because Turkey "claims" that, doesn't really mean a whole lot.

 

[Jim]

I wish this rumor to be real!

 

[A-lister]

Even that I don't see happening. According to most sources, Russia pays a whole lot more than Turkey. Everything that's floating around online are just speculations and rumors. Just because Turkey "claims" that, doesn't really mean a whole lot.

True, but maybe Russia doesn't care? I mean why would ANY country even want to be part of the "big" ones? It's apparent that entering your song twice usually works in your advantage than being a bad thing.

I mean even if Sweden would one day be granted a "big" spot, I'd still not want us to accept it because although entering semi is a risk, if you actually qualify I'd say you're in a better position than the ones being directly qualified.

 

[A-lister]

I wish this rumor to be real!

May I ask why?

I don't get it, that people actually think whining countries should get special treatment...

 

[Jim]

May I ask why?

I don't get it, that people actually think whining countries should get special treatment...

I wish a comeback from Turkey, because this year Turkey has withdrawn and maybe next year other countries to follow and then to have only some countries to participate. All the glory of the contest will be gone! That's why!

 

[wyq614]

May I ask why?

I don't get it, that people actually think whining countries should get special treatment...

There is a Chinese proverb saying: Whoever cries gets his milk...

I hope Turkey back (but without changing the current ESC system), and I think Turkey will be.

 

[Impressive]

Magdalena Tul for Turkey!! 3

 

[A-lister]

I wish a comeback from Turkey, because this year Turkey has withdrawn and maybe next year other countries to follow and then to have only some countries to participate. All the glory of the contest will be gone! That's why!

Turkey is not the only country that has withdrawn.

So how will ESC work if every country whining (without reason) will get special treatment? Then for sure the glory will be gone!

 

[Jim]

Turkey is not the only country that has withdrawn.

So how will ESC work if every country whining (without reason) will get special treatment? Then for sure the glory will be gone!

I didn't say something about a special treatment. You say it. Maybe Turkey wanted to all that for some reasons that only Turkey knows.

 

[evilperson]

I don't think two wrongs ever make one right, I don't believe in such solutions because then in the end everyone will find something to whine about. In Turkey's case it's not justified, since apparently if we look at the results it's not as if they have faired much worse with juries... I think out of 4 years, 3 times in the top. 10 (1x top. 3, 1x top. 5 and 1xtop10) is pretty good!

As far as I'm concerned, some countries do pay more than others even with less population, but you're saying the Big 5 paying more is just an illusion then? Well, if that's so then it would have been known already.

But then again, I was never a fan of the big system in the first place... but the solution is not bringing more countries to the "big" ones, I'd say they should just end it then.

The EBU facilitate such a system with by pandering to the Big 5 and creating the status in the first place. They wont get rid of the Big 5. As for the juries, it has benefited and backfired on those who wanted it.

I'm not saying the Big 5 don't pay more. Perhaps Turkey is paying more than some of the Big 5 do and that's why they want an automatic spot. Is that such a bad thing, not to be treated as a second rate country when you're giving more than others who have a privilege over you? If Turkey is paying more then they should be a part of it.

We don't know how much each country pays so I can't say Turkey's demand is completely outrageous - for all we know they could be paying more that some of the Big 5. Same goes for Russia.

 

[evilperson]

Turkey is not the only country that has withdrawn.

So how will ESC work if every country whining (without reason) will get special treatment? Then for sure the glory will be gone!

What special treatment? Maybe they are asking for exactly what they deserve. You're assuming their demands are baseless.

 

[A-lister]

I didn't say something about a special treatment. You say it. Maybe Turkey wanted to all that for some reasons that only Turkey knows.

Well, if they're coming back without EBU giving in for uncalled for pressure then I'm welcoming them back of course. If not that I'm not sure because then every country can come up with their own reasons to demand something from EBU and it won't work in the long run.

 

[A-lister]

The EBU facilitate such a system with by pandering to the Big 5 and creating the status in the first place. They wont get rid of the Big 5. As for the juries, it has benefited and backfired on those who wanted it.

I'm not saying the Big 5 don't pay more. Perhaps Turkey is paying more than some of the Big 5 do and that's why they want an automatic spot. Is that such a bad thing, not to be treated as a second rate country when you're giving more than others who have a privilege over you? If Turkey is paying more then they should be a part of it.

We don't know how much each country pays so I can't say Turkey's demand is completely outrageous - for all we know they could be paying more that some of the Big 5. Same goes for Russia.

IF they're paying more (aswell as Russia) than I totally get their demand, no doubt about it. Tbh, I don't think they do pay more as that would have been known already.

But what are your solution, a Big 10?? I mean there need to be a limit for that aswell. IF we are about to keep the 'Big' system (and I hope it won't get expanded since I'm against the whole system in the first place), then atleast make it a rolling "Big" 5 system which means that the top. 5 funders (plus the host country) will be directly qualified, and that these countries might change if another year some other country funds less than another. That could be a good compromise to the Big system, if it really is that you say that the current big ones doesn't really pay the most (although somehow I doubt this).

 

[Jim]

Well, if they're coming back without EBU giving in for uncalled for pressure then I'm welcoming them back of course. If not that I'm not sure because then every country can come up with their own reasons to demand something from EBU and it won't work in the long run.

Now, I agree with you!

 

[A-lister]

What special treatment? Maybe they are asking for exactly what they deserve. You're assuming their demands are baseless.

Maybe, I assume you know right?

Look we're all speculating here about the Big thing, but what disturbs me the most is the jury part where they only whine because they can't benefit from the 50% + diaspora votes... and the whining is ridiculous even considering they ended up with good results all these jury years except for one time... you mean that Turkey should be immune or something? That they should always be reserved a top. 10 spot? Because that's how it comes across from TRT now.

 

[evilperson]

IF they're paying more (aswell as Russia) than I totally get their demand, no doubt about it. Tbh, I don't think they do pay more as that would have been known already.

But what are your solution, a Big 10?? I mean there need to be a limit for that aswell. IF we are about to keep the 'Big' system (and I hope it won't get expanded since I'm against the whole system in the first place), then atleast make it a rolling "Big" 5 system which means that the top. 5 funders (plus the host country) will be directly qualified, and that these countries might change if another year some other country funds less than another. That could be a good compromise to the Big system, if it really is that you say that the current big ones doesn't really pay the most (although somehow I doubt this).

I'm not offering a solution. There is no way to justify having the Big 5 in the first place. It's a competition and these 5 countries start at the half-way point of a race. There is nothing fair about it. If 5 countries want to whine about getting crap results, then they should send better songs. I mean, the UK probably would've been in the final ~2 times in the last 5-10 years if they had gone through the semi-finals.

But for that to change, a lot of countries have to withdraw or complain. And the argument of them paying more is null and void if it turns out that Turkey and Russia pay more than any one of them. And still, are we going to give rich countries a head start and marginalize the poorer countries? As long as the EBU aren't feeling the heat they wont do anything about it. So I'm all for Turkey applying some pressure on that subject.

Maybe, I assume you know right?

Look we're all speculating here about the Big thing, but what disturbs me the most is the jury part where they only whine because they can't benefit from the 50% + diaspora votes... and the whining is ridiculous even considering they ended up with good results all these jury years except for one time... you mean that Turkey should be immune or something? That they should always be reserved a top. 10 spot? Because that's how it comes across from TRT now.

Yes we are speculating. It's better to come from a place of curiosity than to take a position based on facts we don't know. I'm posting here because it seems people are ignoring what could be the other side of the story. In terms of the juries, I don't agree with their reasoning, but the point they should be making is how the juries were brought back at the complaints of some of the Big 5. The televoting was allegedly screwing the Big 5 and now the jury is screwing Turkey. And every year since the jury was introduced, we've had at least one Big 5 country that has greatly benefited from the jury vote.

 

[A-lister]

^
But thing is you're speculating about Russia and Turkey paying more. So far what we "know" is that the big countries are in fact the biggest funders and as long as no one can prove the opposite (and TRT didn't do this either, they just generally complained about the system), then it's just speculating and nothing else.

So with what we know, or let's say what EBU want us to think, then if the big countries indeed pay more money than Turkey and Russia then I don't really see why Turkey should be there?

Atleast we both agree that the big system in itself can't be justified. If these countries in fact pays the most, then atleast one can argue for them being in the big system as long as we have the system, but that's about it.

 

[evilperson]

^
But thing is you're speculating about Russia and Turkey paying more. So far what we "know" is that the big countries are in fact the biggest funders and as long as no one can prove the opposite (and TRT didn't do this either, they just generally complained about the system), then it's just speculating and nothing else.

So with what we know, or let's say what EBU want us to think, then if the big countries indeed pay more money than Turkey and Russia then I don't really see why Turkey should be there?

Atleast we both agree that the big system in itself can't be justified. If these countries in fact pays the most, then atleast one can argue for them being in the big system as long as we have the system, but that's about it.

I'm am speculating on that, but I'm saying if. If that's the case then this applies, if not, then forget about it. If Turkey pays more, then they should be part of the Big 5. If not, then they shouldn't. But people are blindly assuming they don't pay more when we don't really know if they do or not.

In any case, the Big 5 sucks.