United Kingdom UNITED KINGDOM 2016 - Joe & Jake - You're Not Alone

[QwaarJet]

Bjorkman is just trying to get noticed, the best thing to do is ignore him. We don't need him to tell us that we haven't "got" Eurovision, we can see that from our results It is partly our fault we do badly, partly Europe's fault. But anyway, we're not obsessed with winning like Bjorkman.

I'm the biggest flag-waver and even I don't have any particular desire for us to win or host.

It seems hypocritical to me that he condemns Britain for sending rubbish entries, and then also condemns Sir Terry (after he just died as well!!) for pointing out other countries sending rubbish. Seems like a bit of distasteful Anglophobia on Bjorkman's part tbh.


As for J&J, they should keep doing what they're doing - making us proud. Their selfie idea is brilliant, and hey, we now get Meryl Streep and Hugh Grant on the Euro stage (kind of)

Yes, ignore the man that speaks the truth. The only thing he shouldn't have done was comment on the quality of this year's UK entry. Of course it's shit, he's right, but it's not his job to talk about an active participant on the contest he is running. At least we know the UK are getting a shit draw.

Everything else he said was spot on, and I knew the shitty UK tabloids would focus on the few words he said about Wogan. Bjorkman was just saying what most UK Eurovision fans say all the time, that Wogan's hopeless attempts at humour irreparably damaged the reputation of the contest here, and that the best thing to happen was him stepping down and Norton taking over. Bjorkman was wrong about Norton, he is a massive improvement. Wogan was a very bitter man who couldn't take the UK getting bad results each year, so ended up blaming it on everyone else. He also called a lot of excellent songs terrible, and was utterly shocked when the rest of Europe disagreed with him. Wogan being dead shouldn't stop people telling the truth.

I love how you seem to no longer care about winning. That is complete nonsense. As soon as the UK send a song capable of winning the contest, you will suddenly care VERY much about winning.

I would also like to say that judging from what I've seen from UK ESC fans across the internet, they are NOT proud of their entry. There is certainly no reason to be.

But the response from the UK media proves nothing will change. The UK will continue to not take it seriously, will continue to get bad results and will continue to blame everyone but themselves.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Yawn. He doesn't speak the truth. You just love a good ol' anti-UK bandwagon, any one that passes and I guarantee you'll be onboard egging them on.

You can't pull the wool over my eyes. All this fake "concern" for the UK is just a secret way of talking us down.
The song you supported in the NF was so shit I couldn't even win a NF on BBC Four. So before attacking J&J get your own house in order. And I'm afraid somebody supporting GEORGIA has little credibility in determining quality of music. I have seen very few UK fans criticise J&J apart from on here, they're adored by millions.

Bjorkman should realise that if you play with fire you're gonna get burned. The fury of the tabloids is the least he deserves.

 

[Romeo]

Joe and Jake are currently number 62 in the iTunes chart

 

[QwaarJet]

Yawn. He doesn't speak the truth. You just love a good ol' anti-UK bandwagon, any one that passes and I guarantee you'll be onboard egging them on.

You can't pull the wool over my eyes. All this fake "concern" for the UK is just a secret way of talking us down.
The song you supported in the NF was so shit I couldn't even win a NF on BBC Four. So before attacking J&J get your own house in order. And I'm afraid somebody supporting GEORGIA has little credibility in determining quality of music. I have seen very few UK fans criticise J&J apart from on here, they're adored by millions.

Bjorkman should realise that if you play with fire you're gonna get burned. The fury of the tabloids is the least he deserves.

Yep, as expected, here come the personal attacks on my music taste. Seriously, having a go at me for liking Georgia? How low can you go? Also having a go at the song I supported to represent the UK. As usual, have a go at someone else instead of taking responsibility. This is the problem with the UK attitude. Thankfully most UK Eurovision fans aren't like that now. But there will always be some who continue to keep their head in the sand.

Have you forgotten how much I was cheering on Molly 2 years ago? I was begging for it to win. It was one of my favourite songs of the year. If the UK send something good, I will cheer it on. I don't want to talk the UK down, I want them to get their bloody act together. And as long as they don't, they I have no reason to support them.

And J&J adored by MILLIONS? Where are you getting that from? Sorry, but that simply is not true.

Bjorkman was right, and the reason I know that is the reaction to it. It's hit a nerve and some are reacting angrily to it. Hopefully It's a wake-up call for next year.

 

[Romeo]

Bjorkman was right, and the reason I know that is the reaction to it. It's hit a nerve and some are reacting angrily to it. Hopefully It's a wake-up call for next year.

That is the point I made last night, with all this publicity it could be the kick up the arse the BBC need to actually take it seriously. I don't agree with Bjorkma's approach at all I think its unprofessional and rude but I think with the big deal that has been made about what he said the BBC might actually do something

Like in 2003 and 2008 coming last was a kick up the arse the BBC needed to change the format. Yeah 2004 wasn't a triumph but it was a step in the right direction and 2009 was great, the format worked until 2010 when they asked Pete Waterman, if they kept that format and got good songwriters like Andrew Lloyd Webber then the UK would have had a win by now

 

[QwaarJet]

That is the point I made last night, with all this publicity it could be the kick up the arse the BBC need to actually take it seriously. I don't agree with Bjorkma's approach at all I think its unprofessional and rude but I think with the big deal that has been made about what he said the BBC might actually do something

Like in 2003 and 2008 coming last was a kick up the arse the BBC needed to change the format. Yeah 2004 wasn't a triumph but it was a step in the right direction and 2009 was great, the format worked until 2010 when they asked Pete Waterman, if they kept that format and got good songwriters like Andrew Lloyd Webber then the UK would have had a win by now

Yeah, fair point. Eurovision has made the headlines here, increased focus on it, probable boost in listens and views for song and hopefully a great spotlight shines on the whole attitude towards the contest. They need to decide whether they are coming to win or not.

 

[lavieenrose]

And I'm afraid somebody supporting GEORGIA has little credibility in determining quality of music.

Wait, if you're allowed to discount QwaarJet's opinions for supporting Georgia, what stops QwaarJet from discounting yours because you don't?

 

[ZoboCamel]

The media's barrage of complaints about 'you can't badmouth Wogan, he's dead!' seems a little... irrelevant. I haven't seen anybody saying they're glad he died or anything, which would be pretty shitty - they're just disagreeing with the way he commentated the contest, which seems entirely fair. Passing on shouldn't suddenly mean you're immune from criticism, and it shouldn't require everybody to praise you for some indeterminate amount of time. I'm reminded of this (somewhat infamous) skit from an Australian comedy show:

By the way, I'll mention just in case - I'm not aiming this at anyone on the forums. I'm more just annoyed at the tabloid media twisting peoples' comments for a story. As for my own opinion, I think [MENTION=4958]QwaarJet[/MENTION] hit the nail on the head. However unpopular or weak the UK's song this year may be, it was a stupid and highly unprofessional move for Bjorkman to criticise it, especially since Sweden are the ones hosting for the year. Apart from that, though, he seemed pretty spot-on - the UK in general doesn't hold the contest too highly, so they don't put in much effort and in turn get weak results, despite the potential in the music industry over there. I'd love to support the UK in Eurovision - I mean, in terms of my cultural bias they're probably the country I'd most like to see winning - but the effort just hasn't been put in lately. Hopefully we'll see something more impressive next year - the reintroduction of the national final at least shows that the BBC is willing to change things around a bit.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Yep, as expected, here come the personal attacks on my music taste. Seriously, having a go at me for liking Georgia? How low can you go? Also having a go at the song I supported to represent the UK. As usual, have a go at someone else instead of taking responsibility. This is the problem with the UK attitude. Thankfully most UK Eurovision fans aren't like that now. But there will always be some who continue to keep their head in the sand.

Have you forgotten how much I was cheering on Molly 2 years ago? I was begging for it to win. It was one of my favourite songs of the year. If the UK send something good, I will cheer it on. I don't want to talk the UK down, I want them to get their bloody act together. And as long as they don't, they I have no reason to support them.

And J&J adored by MILLIONS? Where are you getting that from? Sorry, but that simply is not true.

Bjorkman was right, and the reason I know that is the reaction to it. It's hit a nerve and some are reacting angrily to it. Hopefully It's a wake-up call for next year.

Right so the UK entry can be attacked but Georgia's can't... okay...

Well if you are being genuine about this then you are part of the problem, one of the brainwashed fan types who've been convinced that it's all the UK's fault, and go along with the injustice of it all - you excuse and even support entries like Verka & the Russian grannies baking bread coming second and then scream UK DESERVES LAST ITS SHIT J&J ARE SHIT.

The reason I don't care about winning anymore is because I accept Eurovision's bent, and it always has been, ever since Franco bribed juries to hand victory to Spain over Sir Cliff. I love Eurovision so much but the voting is something not to be taken seriously, it is something you can laugh at when drunk. That's the way I look at it. Sometimes UK deserves to fail, other times it doesn't. But we always finish lower than what our entry is worth, that can be guaranteed.
I never discuss this issue because like I say I haven't cared for a few years now, but when someone talks bs like Bjorkman then yeah it does piss you off. Not every country in Europe has 4x12 points guaranteed as his does.

His (and your) view is wrong. The press and the public's viewpoint is wrong. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Wait, if you're allowed to discount QwaarJet's opinions for supporting Georgia, what stops QwaarJet from discounting yours because you don't?

Believe me QJ discounts mine on a frequent basis

 

[lavieenrose]

Believe me QJ discounts mine on a frequent basis

QJ doesn't discount your opinions because of irrelevant factors in re which songs you like; he discounts your opinions because he thinks you're wrong.

 

[lavieenrose]

Right so the UK entry can be attacked but Georgia's can't... okay...

Georgia can be attacked. Attack it all you want. QwaarJet's thoughts on Björkman's statement can be attacked; I actually agree with you that what Björkman said was completely out of line. But how do QwaarJet's thoughts on the Georgian entry damage his credibility to talk about Björkman?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

QJ doesn't discount your opinions because of irrelevant factors in re which songs you like; he discounts your opinions because he thinks you're wrong.

You should re-read what I have written before having a go at me for no reason. I never discounted QJ argument coz of a song preference, I said condemning J&J as shit sort of doesn't wash when you support Georgian song. I've never called any song in this Contest shit (including the Georgian one) so if you're gonna wade into this it's not me you should taking issue with

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Georgia can be attacked. Attack it all you want. QwaarJet's thoughts on Björkman's statement can be attacked; I actually agree with you that what Björkman said was completely out of line. But how do QwaarJet's thoughts on the Georgian entry damage his credibility to talk about Björkman?

I could attack Georgia, I could attack QJ argument, but attacking's not my style.

Again, the Georgian entry is nothing to do with Bjorkman, it is to do with QJ constant attacks on J&J.

 

[lavieenrose]

condemning J&J as shit sort of doesn't wash when you support Georgian song.

So if the opinions of someone who disagrees with me on Georgia "don't wash," then why should either of us listen to you? Is it maybe because we don't provide litmus tests for who's allowed to speak ill of a song?

 

[lavieenrose]

Again, the Georgian entry is nothing to do with Bjorkman

My point exactly. Why do QJ's opinions on the Georgian entry disqualify him from talking about other entries?

 

[lavieenrose]

attacking's not my style.

You just sound like one of those over excitable humanists clutching at straws.

She's like Chiara without the class.

Molly had a shitty old-fashioned song that was fit for past decades, not now. GET OVER IT.

The song you supported in the NF was so shit I couldn't even win a NF on BBC Four. So before attacking J&J get your own house in order. And I'm afraid somebody supporting GEORGIA has little credibility in determining quality of music.

(EDIT: thank you Lupus for searching through so I didn't have to )

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

(EDIT: thank you Lupus for searching through so I didn't have to )

Well that's your argument blown out of the water... apparently so worried about consistency of argument and then bringing up quotes I have made about religion to a discussion about Bjorkman & Joe&Jake

Btw, isn't QJ capable of defending his own arguments or does it take three of you to try and prove me wrong - something you're still yet to do???

 

[QwaarJet]

Right so the UK entry can be attacked but Georgia's can't... okay...

Well if you are being genuine about this then you are part of the problem, one of the brainwashed fan types who've been convinced that it's all the UK's fault, and go along with the injustice of it all - you excuse and even support entries like Verka & the Russian grannies baking bread coming second and then scream UK DESERVES LAST ITS SHIT J&J ARE SHIT.

I don't want to go much further in this, but I don't like joke entries or songs that obviously aren't trying. Verka and the grannies offended me greatly, and they equally part of the problem as much as the UK and it's amateur entries. Both those entries did much better than I believe they should have, and as for the last point there, having listened to every song at least 12 times, I can safely say that UK, Albania and Denmark are my bottom 3. Is it the very worst song this year? At the moment I find it hard to disagree.

I genuinely wish it wasn't so low, since we have enough bad entries this year, but I'm not going to lie about my thoughts on the song. I hate it.

 

[lavieenrose]

Well that's your argument blown out of the water... apparently so worried about consistency of argument and then bringing up quotes I have made about religion to a discussion about Bjorkman & Joe&Jake

Btw, isn't QJ capable of defending his own arguments or does it take three of you to try and prove me wrong - something you're still yet to do???

This was a bit of a side argument about whether or not attacking's your style.

Btw, I'm sure he is, but why not kill a mosquito with a cannon?