Ukraine UKRAINE 2016 - Jamala - 1944
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Vera
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Both of my grandfathers died in WW2, and their fathers in Thessaloniki front in WW1 so I take this theme very personally! They all gave their lives to defeat the Nazis. Serbia always was antinazi state! Always.
Ljotic???Please stop reading wiki!
I do not mind Jamala winning the whole thing but i do mind jury's behavior.
A-lister
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And both my grandparents on my mother's side were in forced labor camps in Nazi-Germany resulting in my grandmother getting a life long disease, so this is personally for me too
Wikipedia is not as bad of a source as some might think, it sums up things well and is better checked than many other sources and always have links to the sources used. But again I never said Serbs in general were Nazi collabos... I just stated that part of history which is an unfortunate fact.
I think it's important to acknowledge history, good and bad. There are dark parts and light parts in all those countries I mentioned, and while most people weren't "bad" we have to be able to look critically also at our own country's history at times.
For our grandparents and for any unfortunate misunderstanding
GermanBango
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How the hell did we even get to the Nazi-topic? :?
A-lister
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It was started before in this thread, not sure by who though, I guess one thing lead to the other...
Hopefully it won't be repeated...
Chorizo
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If people are aware of Jamala's story, of what happened to her people and also of what Russia is doing now, this is already an important victory but the song doesn't need politics to be the deserving winner. It's a pity that the Russian losers are spamming everywhere. On YouTube, she gets even more hate than Conchia, who was hated by the same kind of people. Both Conchita and Jamala had songs that deserved to win and the political side just made their victories even sweeter without being the only reason why they deserved to win.
lavieenrose
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Have only seen fragments of the Nazi conversation but any Nazi conversation here is just a really horrible idea. Regardless of who started it or who'd have the last word by ending it now, just end it now.
macmillanandwife
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But yes let's end the Nazi talk now and focus on the actual song. Which was beautiful BTW.
Gosh if Ukraine gets trashed for a little part of population collaborating with Nazis I wonder what russians / pro-russians say about Romania since we were allies with Hitler 
I say past is the past. Most probably all the collaborationist are dead by now and Ukraine didn't show any sign to install a ...dunno Ruthenian Reich 
2 so what's the whole deal with ukrainians being facists? i just don't get it.
Aaaaaaanywaaaay...
I say past is the past. Most probably all the collaborationist are dead by now and Ukraine didn't show any sign to install a ...dunno Ruthenian Reich 2 so what's the whole deal with ukrainians being facists? i just don't get it.Aaaaaaanywaaaay...
WhoKnows
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Gosh if Ukraine gets trashed for a little part of population collaborating with Nazis I wonder what russians / pro-russians say about Romania since we were allies with Hitler
Aaaaaaanywaaaay...
Pay no mind to it. It's just another propaganda attempt by Russia to portray Ukraine as the enemy to drum up mass support for their war crimes. Remember, they also like to say "Ukrainians are brothers, we're the same people, always together, etc". But it's hard to say just that while annexing Ukrainian territory and starting a war there. So now they use both. They just pull out one or the other whenever it's convenient for them. Seems to be working tbh.
On a personal level it is, on a political level it's far worse than people perceive it.
I find this tag of a political song pretty shallow, as everything nowadays is politicized whether you like it or not. What bothers me the most is that people in here are justifying/accusing actions, ideologies, small groups of people, entire nations for what they (might')ve done. Jamala wrote a deeply personal song, that apart from the title 1944 (which again is the only element that could spark any discussion on politics), that in its subtext speaks about atrocities done throughout the human history through the tragic story of her family. Why this song had to win is because it tells us that no ideology, no country, no leader, no person (it's important that it is not specified in the song allowing any further interpretation) can have a justified reason to kill innocent people. End of discussion.
VikingTiger
Well-known member
I think it's a pity that most of what is written in the press and on the net about Ukraine's victory this year seems to put more emphasis on politics than on the actual song and performance. It's even more sad that so is the case here on this forum of ESC lovers (supposedly).
I wasnt too happy about the song before the rehearsals. Watching the clips from the rehearsals I though; "hmm... she is pretty good". And the watching the semi - I could understand why many of you people liked this! Jamala did a very strong performance on a visually beautiful stage! Her voice, her showing of sentiments, and her "laments" together with the floor and backdrop clearly stood out!
I wasnt too happy about the song before the rehearsals. Watching the clips from the rehearsals I though; "hmm... she is pretty good". And the watching the semi - I could understand why many of you people liked this! Jamala did a very strong performance on a visually beautiful stage! Her voice, her showing of sentiments, and her "laments" together with the floor and backdrop clearly stood out!
VikingTiger
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Then, to be "political"; Let's be clear that both Russia and Ukraine did very well - The two countries achieved a top 5 both amongst the juries and the televoters. Even though none of the 2 countries won the jury voting.
If there had been a massive jury "boycott" of Russia, they would hardly put Russia 5th (?). The juries DID sink Poland though! Is that because of Polish politics? They also certainly did sink Austria (why?). On the other hand, the juries seemed to love Israel, and their politics - they must do because they put Israel 8th with 124 points while they televoters gave only 11 points to Israel!
4 juries didnt give points to any of Ukraine and Russia. 8 juries gave points to both of them. 17 juries didnt give any points to Ukraine. 21 juries didnt give any points to Russia. That is hardly a big difference. Taken the kind of song into account there should be no surprise to any of us that juries would tend to give more support to the song and the performance of Jamala than that of Sergey.
In televoting only 38 points separated the two countries. Poland in third place was more than 100 points behind Ukraine. So clearly the europeans had 2 clear favourites. I hardly think they all had "chosen political side" in the conflict on Crimea, before voting for their favourite entry.
I just can't agree that it is all "just politics". Or that there is something "very unfair" with the voting system. It's not perfect, but quite good!
If there had been a massive jury "boycott" of Russia, they would hardly put Russia 5th (?). The juries DID sink Poland though! Is that because of Polish politics? They also certainly did sink Austria (why?). On the other hand, the juries seemed to love Israel, and their politics - they must do because they put Israel 8th with 124 points while they televoters gave only 11 points to Israel!
4 juries didnt give points to any of Ukraine and Russia. 8 juries gave points to both of them. 17 juries didnt give any points to Ukraine. 21 juries didnt give any points to Russia. That is hardly a big difference. Taken the kind of song into account there should be no surprise to any of us that juries would tend to give more support to the song and the performance of Jamala than that of Sergey.
In televoting only 38 points separated the two countries. Poland in third place was more than 100 points behind Ukraine. So clearly the europeans had 2 clear favourites. I hardly think they all had "chosen political side" in the conflict on Crimea, before voting for their favourite entry.
I just can't agree that it is all "just politics". Or that there is something "very unfair" with the voting system. It's not perfect, but quite good!
Congrats on winning On the musical side, it was completely deserved as both her and the song are more than amazing.
Still though..........I didn't like what she was saying after the victory and all the pollitical connotation that this story has. I am against every form of politics anywhere, so I really wouldn't like to see songs that will follow this formula next year.
On the musical side, it was completely deserved as both her and the song are more than amazing.Still though..........I didn't like what she was saying after the victory and all the pollitical connotation that this story has. I am against every form of politics anywhere, so I really wouldn't like to see songs that will follow this formula next year.
GermanBango
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Well the Russians are really trying everything .... Now some of them are saying that "1944" has been released before the 1st September 2015.
hdplus
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I'm really not the best when it's about Eurovision rules. I only remember that Anouk was allowed to participate with "Birds" although it was older though.
Don't think EBU really cares about that afterwards anyways and seriously we had so much drama now, just let her be the winner.
(here's the video -> at minute 4)
(Don't translate the comments
)
FiercelyHip
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I can't get over how mean-spirited and cruel, and frankly dangerous some are going on targeting Jamala. They're really stopping at nothing.
Chorizo
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Russia got 130 points from the juries. 48 of these points are the 12 points received from its neighbors (Belarus and Azerbaijan), and from Greece and Cyprus (because of the Greek composer and the involved Cypriot). The Greek spokesperson even mentioned the Greek composer highlighting that nepotism is accepted in Greece. Therefore, without this special support, Russia only received 82 points from the juries. It's very clear what the juries thought of that entry.
A large part of the televote points are from the Russian diaspora. In the televote, both Ukraine and Russia received points from nearly everywhere and a similar amount of points. Adjusting for the Russian diaspora, the numbers are even more similar, so I don't understand why the Russians are whining now about not winning. They should be happy they were able to reach the third place with a rather weak song. I don't see the Australians whine now or anyone else. Just the Russians are such butthurt people. That's really pathetic and only makes them look bad.
GermanBango
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I'm really not the best when it's about Eurovision rules. I only remember that Anouk was allowed to participate with "Birds" although it was older though.
Don't think EBU really cares about that afterwards anyways and seriously we had so much drama now, just let her be the winner.
(here's the video -> at minute 4)
(Don't translate the comments
“The compositions (lyrics and music) must not have been commercially released before the 1st of September 2015. In case the composition has been made available to the public, for example, but not limited to, on online video platforms, social networks or (semi-) publicly accessible databanks, the Participating Broadcaster must inform the Eurovision Song Contest Executive Supervisor, who shall have authority to evaluate whether the composition is eligible for participation in the Event.”