Sammy
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Ukraine UKRAINE 2016 - Jamala - 1944
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blue00eyes
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This article didn't help me. She denies because she doesn't want to be disqualified. I won't change my opinion.
A-lister
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This is the spirit of Eurovision:
Not Jamala & 1944.
Eh what? So the spirit is an agressor sending peace ballads then?
Ballads can't just be about love and forfilling your ego all the time Sometimes ESC need some more substance than that...Anyways, 1944 may have a political undertone but it's subtle, people can read what they want into it but it's certainly not more political than some previous entries that were allowed in the past and people who scream for boycott, ban or "spirit" are simply the ones who don't like the history behind this song and want to cover it up...
I'm surprised you out of everyone would act a fool for Putin... or even worse Stalin (since this song is hinting Stalin's crime)...
And like someone else pointed out, Ani Lorak is considered a traitor in Ukraine so not the best example of that "spirit"...
blue00eyes
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Which entries? I know only "We don't wanna put in" from Georgia and it wasn't allowed
A-lister
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Oh there are many of them... I mean even "peace songs" can be considered political right?
Around the late 80's/early 90's there were plenty of entries inspired by the fall of "the wall"...
Take a look at the 2011 Portugal entry for instance... don't tell me this wasn't very visibly political?
We had entries in the past that brought up different political discussions, for instance the question about abortion laws in Italy...
So yes... there were many cases, some more obvious than others
Sammy
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she doesn't need to lie about it cause the ebu stated weeks before this interview that there was no problem with the song regarding the "no politics" rule. i think we should respect any artist i. what he/she says about his/her work.
if you'd say it's political even if Jamala doesn't intend it to be, thats sth we can discuss. But to claim that she's a liar without having a proof for such a statement lacks respect that every human is entitled to get.
blue00eyes
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OK, I don't know anything about 80's or 90's.
Portugal 2011 hmm.. I only remember that it was a trash, they used Google Translate to write the Polish banner and they finished higher than us :? I disagree it was more political, but it's my opinion, not a fact.
It depends on how you interpret the lyrics of 1944 and looking at the current situation between Russia and Ukraine I wouldn't say it's subtle. Both Ukraine and Russia use Eurovision for political issues. Same happened last year when Russia sent "A million voices", wasn't it political? Of course it was and I disliked that fact too, but it was sung by my favourite Russian singer so I didn't care. The lyrics of "A million voices" don't contain any historical facts and are adressed to everyone, not to a particular group of people or a country. "1944" is about Crimean Tatars and it's obviously addressed to Russia.
EBU breaks their own rules regularly, so it's not an argument to me.
You can't say I don't respect Jamala and her work, it's not true,
A-lister
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I don't know about the lyrics of Portugal 2011, but that whole mess was so blatantly political that a blind person has to say it wasn't...
So Russia's subtle politics is ok when the singer is good? Oh well... I personal don't believe in censorship of any sort, if Russia want to send hypocritical peace ballads so be it, if Jamala wants to adress the Crimean Tatar struggle so be it... as long as the performances or lyrics aren't directly mentioning anything in particular (names, places, slogans etc.) I honestly don't see the issue, nor are any of them breaking any actual rules...
Sammy
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My point was, that since the EBU gave its clearing for the song (even if you consider this as a break of rules), there is no need to lie about the content of the song to avoid a disqualification. Because nobody else than the EBU could speak out the disqualification. So, yes, it is a valid argument against your presumption that Jamala was lying.
If you consider my critique of being disrespectful as too harsh, then I'd like to ask you: how would you then qualify the behavior of calling someone a liar without being able to prove it and against reasonably established arguments that the person is not lying?
Fierro
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Well, i was among first people who criticised Jamala even before song was released. On her VK community i wrote that she will fuck up everything. Jamala immediately answered me that it's her personal story, no politics in her song. I didn't believe but after i heard track i forgot it's about politics. Song sounded modern and wonderful.
Of course i expect Jamala's flop at ESC because commentators will say how this song targets on Russia etc. and people will not vote for it because it's political. But it's only one of outcomes. She may even win the whole thing with right performance (though basing on recent interview with people who work on staging i expect nothin special).
Of course i expect Jamala's flop at ESC because commentators will say how this song targets on Russia etc. and people will not vote for it because it's political. But it's only one of outcomes. She may even win the whole thing with right performance (though basing on recent interview with people who work on staging i expect nothin special).
blue00eyes
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*The issue is if it was more political or less political than 1944. You said it's blatantly political, I said the same about 1944, fine?
**Polina sold that peace ballad well on the stage, that I believed every word she sang even when I knew that was hypocritical. It was subtle. 1944 isn't. It doesnt contain names, places, slogans, but it does contain 1944 date, which is (in case of Ukrainian history) associated with particular place (Crimea) and with what happened there that time. + Jamala has Tatar roots, Crimea has been annexed, what's not political here?
What did you expect her to say? "Yes, it's political and it's about Russia"
A-lister
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*The issue is if it was more political or less political than 1944. You said it's blatantly political, I said the same about 1944, fine?
**Polina sold that peace ballad well on the stage, that I believed every word she sang even when I knew that was hypocritical. It was subtle. 1944 isn't. It doesnt contain names, places, slogans, but it does contain 1944 date, which is (in case of Ukrainian history) associated with particular place (Crimea) and with what happened there that time. + Jamala has Tatar roots, Crimea has been annexed, what's not political here?
Yes, it's because we know the history behind the title and song, but other than that there is no direct message here...
I disagree with you on Portugal, they staged a left-wing manifest on stage...
Sammy
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What did you expect her to say? "Yes, it's political and it's about Russia"
You are avoiding my question. You called her a liar without having a proof for this and with only one argument that I proved to be invalid. You say this is not disrespectful. Therefore I ask you: how would you call a such a behavior?
blue00eyes
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Let's leave Portugal.
You know, it's really hard to say if the border has been crossed or not yet when it comes to this entry. For some (including me) it's blatant, for some others (you for example) it is still subtle.
It depends how you see things, remember Poland 2014? You were the one defending it, that it was sexy and subtle while some said it's porn and offensive. I used this example to help you understand that we have different view and we might discuss it endlessly. Let's just leave it here.
Jamala is in my top10 this year anyway.
hmm sharing an opinion ?
Sammy
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So I could call you a liar on the basis of nothing and that is just sharing an opinion? I bet you wouldn't like that. I bet you would report such a post (and rightfully!)
If you share a slender (which is also an opinion), than this is still a disrespectful behavior.
blue00eyes
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Don't exaggerate
Sammy
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I'm just following your logic.
A-lister
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Let's leave Portugal.
You know, it's really hard to say if the border has been crossed or not yet when it comes to this entry. For some (including me) it's blatant, for some others (you for example) it is still subtle.
It depends how you see things, remember Poland 2014? You were the one defending it, that it was sexy and subtle while some said it's porn and offensive. I used this example to help you understand that we have different view and we might discuss it endlessly. Let's just leave it here.
Jamala is in my top10 this year anyway.
Why leave Portugal? It's one of the clearest examples in recent ESC that actually broke the rules even and EBU didn't give an eff...
I don't really agree with your Poland comparison, but I guess we can agree to disagree
MyHeartIsYours
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Russia sends Eurovision entries that are in the spirit of Eurovision - recognising that politics ruins real life, so using Eurovision as an escape from that. Singing about peace with countries with whom they disagree during everyday life. That's why last year's Russian entry is one of the greatest songs in Eurovision history.Eh what? So the spirit is an agressor sending peace ballads then?
Anyways, 1944 may have a political undertone but it's subtle, people can read what they want into it but it's certainly not more political than some previous entries that were allowed in the past and people who scream for boycott, ban or "spirit" are simply the ones who don't like the history behind this song and want to cover it up...
I'm surprised you out of everyone would act a fool for Putin... or even worse Stalin (since this song is hinting Stalin's crime)...
And like someone else pointed out, Ani Lorak is considered a traitor in Ukraine so not the best example of that "spirit"...
I wouldn't call lyrics to the effect of 'they came and they killed us' subtle lol
The fact that I'm cool with Russia doesn't really have much to do with it - I like Ukraine, but I disagree with this entry. I would disagree if Russia sent an entry like it, say on Leningrad. Its all about Eurovision.
Ani Lorak is a classy lady who got Ukraine one of its best ever results.