Sweden SWEDEN 2023 - Loreen - Tattoo

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[crashworld]

Please do not bring Italy into the same mix as Sweden when it comes to sending ESC entries.
Please remember Italy's ESC entries are not selected because they made for ESC. They are made for San Remo.
There is a difference.

 

[Preuss]

Please do not bring Italy into the same mix as Sweden when it comes to sending ESC entries.
Please remember Italy's ESC entries are not selected because they made for ESC. They are made for San Remo.
There is a difference.

But you all act like it's a bad thing though I love this narrative people are creating that: "Italy's entries are aUhteNtiC and come from the hEaRT, while Swedish entries are plastic and without soul", just to try and further what comes across as a vendetta against Sweden to somehow tear them down because it's not "real or authentic or ethnic" or whatever it is a small minority of ESC wants to see

 

[GermanBango]

But you all act like it's a bad thing though I love this narrative people are creating that: "Italy's entries are aUhteNtiC and come from the hEaRT, while Swedish entries are plastic and without soul", just to try and further what comes across as a vendetta against Sweden to somehow tear them down because it's not "real or authentic or ethnic" or whatever it is a small minority of ESC wants to see

Preach!
Also my dudes, Italy has send (pretty bland) male ballads 3 out of 4 times in this decade. Y‘all just wet yourselves because they are in Italian. And even Italy 2021 was a rather basic rock song (composition wise) that lived of Damiano‘s stage presence mostly.

Edit:Which is something I don’t even want to bitch about at all. Tattoo lives of Loreen‘s stage presence and the performance as well. There is no doubt about that. But this „Italy, good - Sweden, bad“- mindset in this forum has been driving me nuts for years already.

 

[John1]

But you all act like it's a bad thing though I love this narrative people are creating that: "Italy's entries are aUhteNtiC and come from the hEaRT, while Swedish entries are plastic and without soul", just to try and further what comes across as a vendetta against Sweden to somehow tear them down because it's not "real or authentic or ethnic" or whatever it is a small minority of ESC wants to see

Partly agreed with you on the vendetta against Sweden, which is kinda exaggerated as time flies. However, you do have to admit that the whole 2017-2021 streak (The Mamas not incl. for some obv reasons) was kinda dull and was basically a copy-paste. Even 2015 wasn't that great as a winner, and I'll be definitely standing on that ground for the years to come.

Preach!
Also my dudes, Italy has send (pretty bland) male ballads 3 out of 4 times in this decade. Y‘all just wet yourselves because they are in Italian. And even Italy 2021 was a rather basic rock song (composition wise) that lived of Damiano‘s stage presence mostly.

OMG THANK YOU!!

I can't with the double standards of some people out there calling out Sweden on the entries they've been selected over the past few years, while Italy... well, they're equally as dull.

 

[crashworld]

But you all act like it's a bad thing though I love this narrative people are creating that: "Italy's entries are aUhteNtiC and come from the hEaRT, while Swedish entries are plastic and without soul", just to try and further what comes across as a vendetta against Sweden to somehow tear them down because it's not "real or authentic or ethnic" or whatever it is a small minority of ESC wants to see

My post is in the response to people are saying Italy (is like Sweden) where they are sending the same shite (ie. not risk takers) every year.

Italy's ESC entries are just a by-product of San Remo. It's not like the entries sent to San Remo are crafted with ESC in mind.
If the entry won San Remo, it's by the San Remo's judging criteria, not ESC's.

Whereas, the Swedish ESC entries are basically the winning entry of a NF, which is designed to identify the ESC entry.

 

[Preuss]

Preach!
Also my dudes, Italy has send (pretty bland) male ballads 3 out of 4 times in this decade. Y‘all just wet yourselves because they are in Italian. And even Italy 2021 was a rather basic rock song (composition wise) that lived of Damiano‘s stage presence mostly. Which is something I don’t even want to bitch about at all. Tattoo lives of Loreen‘s stage presence and the performance as well. There is no doubt about that. But this „Italy, good - Sweden, bad“- mindset in this forum has been driving me nuts for years already.

And I love Italy in the contest too, just so that is said. But they have also only sent males for like almost ten years straight now, and plenty of them have been ballads (I love Fai Rumore, Brividi, and Due Vite, the three last ones as you mentioned).

I mean, it's fine if you don't personally like the one and love the other, but this way of discrediting Sweden because of personal reasons they're trying to pass off as some kind of universal truth is hilarious

Everything just reminds me about Salvador's winning speech back in 2017 when he attempted to somehow convince people that his music was the real kind of music lol

 

[midnightsun]

It's getting so ridiculous. Some people just don’t like Tattoo for whatever reasons.

I repeat: I am entitled to dislike the entry!
It’s called "opinion". And even if I dislike it for the most ridiculous reasons it would still be okay and my opinion.

Sweden 2010 was my #1
Sweden 2011 was my #1
Sweden 2015 was my #1
Sweden 2013, 2017, 2021 were in my top 10.

Most of these songs were the most generic Swedish songs!

Yet people come out of their holes now to call us "Sweden haters!!! Always bashing Sweden for sending plastic songs!!!"

I defended Sweden so many times and showed my love for them so many times kn the past. It just happened that I disliked their entries in 2022 & 2023! So how on earth is it possible to get attacked for that?
Now we aren’t allowed to write down our opinions?

Once again: even if every single European likes the song I am entitled to dislike it. It doesn’t mean me or my taste of music or my knowledge in music is less worth than everybody else‘s.

The ones defending Sweden the most fueling this fire again and again. Don’t stop bashing others. Whenever someone writes something against Tattoo they are there to tell us we don’t have knowledge because we like Italy! LOL. Yeah, more Whataboutism please!

/edit: is it possible to turn off notification for a certain single thread??? I don’t want the notifications for this thread, it’s so ridiculous and I want to stay off this toxic thread

 

[gingerale]

Stop fighting and pre order the new iPad Pro Max Ultra.

 

[Preuss]

Partly agreed with you on the vendetta against Sweden, which is kinda exaggerated as time flies. However, you do have to admit that the whole 2017-2021 streak (The Mamas not incl. for some obv reasons) was kinda dull and was basically a copy-paste. Even 2015 wasn't that great as a winner, and I'll be definitely standing on that ground for the years to come.

I mean, it's a similar genre and gate of music, but I struggle to see how they were copy/pastes though. An example of that would perhaps be Cyprus 2018 and then Cyprus/Switzerland 2019 lol. And how is it people find Cornelia's entry that different from what Sweden sent in previous years other than that it was sung by a female? It was still a generic, radio-friendly pop song that had extremely slick staging and choreography, no? People may think otherwise but I find "Hold Me Closer" as polished and "manufactured" and slick as their previous entries. And for the love of all that's holy, this isn't a bad thing.

 

[GermanBango]

I love how some people just completely miss the point. Nobody gives a damn if you don’t like a song for whatever reason. It’s just this hella annoying narrative of „Sweden = bad, generic, boring, manufactured, inauthentic“ that drives me (and thankfully others too) insane.

Also what’s with this childish „eh Imma give my two cents and then I want to block every further comment“-attitude? Are y‘all twelve or what? Jesus. Some people really need to reconsider whether a discussion forum is the right place for them.

 

[Preuss]

My post is in the response to people are saying Italy (is like Sweden) where they are sending the same shite (ie. not risk takers) every year.

Italy's ESC entries are just a by-product of San Remo. It's not like the entries sent to San Remo are crafted with ESC in mind.
If the entry won San Remo, it's by the San Remo's judging criteria, not ESC's.

Whereas, the Swedish ESC entries are basically the winning entry of a NF, which is designed to identify the ESC entry.

Why is it that people here and other places are obsessed with Sweden having to take risks lol? It's not for you to decide just because you're all tired of seeing Sweden do well every year lol. In a sea of generic pop songs every year, I give Sweden massive respect for being able to stand out every year and do a good enough job to get those points from both juries and public. It's a bigger risk in itself sending a "generic pop song" because you need to stand out in order for the juries and public to vote for you. This is kinda what Australia's been struggling with. I mean, where is the risk in sending entries like "Soldi" or "Zitti E Buoni" that were always going to do well no matter what? Those entries from Italy weren't anything about taking risks just because they were a different genre

Yeah and why is it this narrative is so extremely important to you and so many people? Yeah, no doubt, Italy's extremely strong in this contest because of this reason, and the same applies to Sweden. Italy and Sweden have different music scenes though, which is why we get so many ballads from Italy, and so many pop songs from Sweden because that's what people like.

 

[midnightsun]

It’s just this hella annoying narrative of „Sweden = bad, generic, boring, manufactured, inauthentic“ that drives me (and thankfully others too) insane.

I have never said that! Infact, like I‘ve written before, most of my favourite Swedish songs are their most generic songs. I actually like ONLY the plastic Scandi pop songs because this is what they are best in! I just happen to dislike Tattoo. Yet my posts get picked again and again which is silly, given that I usually LOVE Swedish generic pop songs.

I don’t block opinions I just don’t want the notifications for this thread
Funny, you didn’t post the whole year(s) but started attacking me for whatever reasons out of the blue, I think this is the definition of "annoying".

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

I don't particularly like Sweden's entries most years - but surely 2022's entry (Cornelia Jacobs) was the opposite of plastic pop?

 

[GermanBango]

I have never said that! Infact, like I‘ve written before, most of my favourite Swedish songs are their most generic songs. I actually like ONLY the plastic Scandi pop songs because this is what they are best in! I just happen to dislike Tattoo. Yet my posts get picked again and again which is silly, given that I usually LOVE Swedish generic pop songs.

I don’t block opinions I just don’t want the notifications for this thread
Funny, you didn’t post the whole year(s) but started attacking me for whatever reasons out of the blue, I think this is the definition of "annoying".

Yea and I never said that you specifically said that. The discussion these last few pages was exactly about said mindset though and you decided to give your two cents on that.
Attacking? Where did I attack?

 

[Preuss]

I don't particularly like Sweden's entries most years - but surely 2022's entry (Cornelia Jacobs) was the opposite of plastic pop?

Well, I said last year when people stated that Sweden finally sends something authentic and real, that at the end of the day, I couldn't
see what was the extreme difference between Hold Me Closer and their previous entries

 

[crashworld]

Why is it that people here and other places are obsessed with Sweden having to take risks lol? It's not for you to decide just because you're all tired of seeing Sweden do well every year lol. In a sea of generic pop songs every year, I give Sweden massive respect for being able to stand out every year and do a good enough job to get those points from both juries and public. It's a bigger risk in itself sending a "generic pop song" because you need to stand out in order for the juries and public to vote for you. This is kinda what Australia's been struggling with. I mean, where is the risk in sending entries like "Soldi" or "Zitti E Buoni" that were always going to do well no matter what? Those entries from Italy weren't anything about taking risks just because they were a different genre

Yeah and why is it this narrative is so extremely important to you and so many people? Yeah, no doubt, Italy's extremely strong in this contest because of this reason, and the same applies to Sweden. Italy and Sweden have different music scenes though, which is why we get so many ballads from Italy, and so many pop songs from Sweden because that's what people like.

I don't know why you are directing all these to me though. I have no qualms in how Sweden wants to select their entries, whether it's "generic polished" entries they tend to send every year. It's their ESC formula which has been serving them well. So I am not surprised they wouldn't want to change things up. But not that there is anything wrong with that. But I can see why some people don't like that, but that is their prerogative.

If people want something different (ie. "organic", "ethnic" or whatever), there are other countries that can cater that. Just don't try looking for it in Sweden or expecting Sweden to do it.

All I am saying in my previous posts is that Italy can't be put in the same bucket as Sweden because the basis of selecting their ESC entrants are entirely different.

 

[Rocket man]

I don't particularly like Sweden's entries most years - but surely 2022's entry (Cornelia Jacobs) was the opposite of plastic pop?

That was my winner last year, (well if Ukraine or the UK didn't win). Great song and Cornelia's voice was so good.

I wish that was Sweden's entry this year, I would have been rooting for that for the win, unlike the average "Tattoo".

 

[ESC94]

It's getting so ridiculous. Some people just don’t like Tattoo for whatever reasons.

I repeat: I am entitled to dislike the entry!
It’s called "opinion". And even if I dislike it for the most ridiculous reasons it would still be okay and my opinion.

Sweden 2010 was my #1
Sweden 2011 was my #1
Sweden 2015 was my #1
Sweden 2013, 2017, 2021 were in my top 10.

Most of these songs were the most generic Swedish songs!

Yet people come out of their holes now to call us "Sweden haters!!! Always bashing Sweden for sending plastic songs!!!"

I defended Sweden so many times and showed my love for them so many times kn the past. It just happened that I disliked their entries in 2022 & 2023! So how on earth is it possible to get attacked for that?
Now we aren’t allowed to write down our opinions?

Once again: even if every single European likes the song I am entitled to dislike it. It doesn’t mean me or my taste of music or my knowledge in music is less worth than everybody else‘s.

The ones defending Sweden the most fueling this fire again and again. Don’t stop bashing others. Whenever someone writes something against Tattoo they are there to tell us we don’t have knowledge because we like Italy! LOL. Yeah, more Whataboutism please!

/edit: is it possible to turn off notification for a certain single thread??? I don’t want the notifications for this thread, it’s so ridiculous and I want to stay off this toxic thread

Well, let´s not pretend that you didn´t contribute your part to this atmosphere.

I love how some people just completely miss the point. Nobody gives a damn if you don’t like a song for whatever reason. It’s just this hella annoying narrative of „Sweden = bad, generic, boring, manufactured, inauthentic“ that drives me (and thankfully others too) insane.

Also what’s with this childish „eh Imma give my two cents and then I want to block every further comment“-attitude? Are y‘all twelve or what? Jesus. Some people really need to reconsider whether a discussion forum is the right place for them.

You know, I´ve been kinda critical to in the past few years but not because I "hate" the country but simply due to the fact that most of their songs were part of genres I´m not that enthusiastic about. But that can change of course every year, I kinda liked Cornelia last year and didn´t even rate Loreen this year badly (), I just find the hype a bit "too much" for my taste.

On the other side I liked most songs from since their comeback, but that doesn´t mean that the country has a "free pass" and that I give them immediately, everyone who knows me knows that I really HATE that ceesy thing that won the televote in 2015 and even their winning song in 2021 was also just "ok" for me, even though I really liked their energy on stage.

What I wanted to say: Just because you´re critical of a countrys entry doesn´t mean that you "hate" the country and autmatically "love" another one no matter what they send. The world is not just black and white, it´s all the different shades that make it great.

And now I hope that this doesn´t escalate even further. I wish all of you a happy Eurovision 2023.

 

[Rocket man]

And people calling out Italy for being excused by eurofans amd Sweden getting haters all the time even though they do the same thing. I have to say I actually agree with that. Eurofans hype Italy way too much, for example 2015, 2017, and even last year. 2017 was the worst hype ever, it didn't even finish in the top 5.

 

[GermanBango]

Well, let´s not pretend that you didn´t contribute your part to this atmosphere.


You know, I´ve been kinda critical to in the past few years but not because I "hate" the country but simply due to the fact that most of their songs were part of genres I´m not that enthusiastic about. But that can change of course every year, I kinda liked Cornelia last year and didn´t even rate Loreen this year badly (), I just find the hype a bit "too much" for my taste.

On the other side I liked most songs from since their comeback, but that doesn´t mean that the country has a "free pass" and that I give them immediately, everyone who knows me knows that I really HATE that ceesy thing that won the televote in 2015 and even their winning song in 2021 was also just "ok" for me, even though I really liked their energy on stage.

What I wanted to say: Just because you´re critical of a countrys entry doesn´t mean that you "hate" the country and autmatically "love" another one no matter what they send. The world is not just black and white, it´s all the different shades that make it great.

And now I hope that this doesn´t escalate even further. I wish all of you a happy Eurovision 2023.

Tastes differ and again this is the place to voice opinions and TALK ABOUT/DISCUSS them. I have no problem with people not liking an entry - I just can’t stand these meta-narratives that some (not all by any means) try to push.

Take us two: we have talked about our faves without anyone doing the „beleidigte Leberwurst“ afterwards.