musicfan
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Obviously. Juries bring in a whole load of problems, probably why they were done away with in the first place.
Split results Televotings & 'Jury'
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Obviously. Juries bring in a whole load of problems, probably why they were done away with in the first place.
I made a table of the possible televoting results in semi 1. I got almost all of the averages right (missing Estonia and Slovenia only) and I made out point results as well based on the rankings. now this doesn't mean that the particular country gave that many points to that country, but I tried to make the averages right and produce points based on this (I think it is fairly accurate +/-2 points). 
A-lister
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I'm glad to see I'm amusing someone
I hope you do realize that everyone in here are expressing their opinions right? Hardly something exclusive for me, you do it aswell...
GWTW1939
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top 10 jury: 3 Scandinavian (1.Denmark, 3.Sweden, 4.Norway), 4 Eastern (2.Azerbaijan, 5.Moldova, 6.Ukraine, 10.Russia), 3 Western (7.Netherlands, 8.Italy, 9.Malta)
top 10 televote: 2 Scandinavian (1.Denmark, 6.Norway), 1 Balkan (4.Greece) 1 South Eastern (7.Romania), 1 Central (8.Hungary) 3 Eastern (2.Ukraine, 3.Azerbaijan, 5.Russia), 2 Western (9.Malta, 10.Netherlands)
Its kind of strange that the jury completely eliminated a whole part of Europe because judging from their top 10 there is only the East, Scandinavia, and the West with no Balkan/Southeast/Central Europe at all. Only 1 jury top 10 country (Moldova) was not in English and the all the other countries were extremely Western friendly. The televote appears to be a lot more balanced and spread out. I imagine if you color a map the jury one would have a huge white space in the middle while the televote one would be more spread out.
top 10 televote: 2 Scandinavian (1.Denmark, 6.Norway), 1 Balkan (4.Greece) 1 South Eastern (7.Romania), 1 Central (8.Hungary) 3 Eastern (2.Ukraine, 3.Azerbaijan, 5.Russia), 2 Western (9.Malta, 10.Netherlands)
Its kind of strange that the jury completely eliminated a whole part of Europe because judging from their top 10 there is only the East, Scandinavia, and the West with no Balkan/Southeast/Central Europe at all. Only 1 jury top 10 country (Moldova) was not in English and the all the other countries were extremely Western friendly. The televote appears to be a lot more balanced and spread out. I imagine if you color a map the jury one would have a huge white space in the middle while the televote one would be more spread out.
A-lister
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I don't get the jury supporters in here, I think it's pretty apparent that the televoters are more open-minded than the juries are...
I don't get the jury supporters in here, I think it's pretty apparent that the televoters are more open-minded than the juries are...
Is that an opinion or fact? I can never tell with you.
A-lister
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Opinions can't be facts (well they CAN be sort of if backed up with statistical observations etc.), let's call it a "personal reflection of the current state"
Opinions can't be facts (well they CAN be sort of if backed up with statistical observations etc.), let's call it a "personal reflection of the current state"
got it, it's an opinion. Just wanted to clarify.
A-lister
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Well, it's not really an "opinion" that juries has supported imported entries, entries in English, conventional ballads over more refreshing stuff and their blatant hate for everything ethnic... I mean it's an opinion whether one agree with their taste or not, but it's a fact that's how they vote though
I'd hardly call it a "non-fact" that EBU is non-transparent either
It's quite funny though that being "pro-juries" is somehow praised in here as being "rational" "fact-based" etc... when it's just as equally subjective as opposing them
Well, it's not really an "opinion" that juries has supported imported entries, entries in English, conventional ballads over more refreshing stuff and their blatant hate for everything ethnic... I mean it's an opinion whether one agree with their taste or not, but it's a fact that's how they vote though
I'd hardly call it a "non-fact" that EBU is non-transparent either
Now it's not an opinion anymore? What is it then? It's difficult your train if thought
cassio
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Maybe the answar is that the jury didn't care which countries the songs came from were as the televoters did
A-lister
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Ehm, he just totally proved that the televoters were in fact MORE open-minded while the juries supported just 3 regions??
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A-lister, i support you in some questions but i am kinda tired or your "imported Swedish songs" etc.
It's a song contest. I like Azerbaijan, why I should do care who composed it? If i wouldn't be on this forum, i never knew who are authors of songs.
I also think that songs should be produced in country which they represent, but it didn't happened - we shouldn't rate them lower because of this.
Why jury shouldn't have like Georgia? Good composed song, much better then mostly of this year, and only haters (why?) so care about who composed it
It's a song contest. I like Azerbaijan, why I should do care who composed it? If i wouldn't be on this forum, i never knew who are authors of songs.
I also think that songs should be produced in country which they represent, but it didn't happened - we shouldn't rate them lower because of this.
Why jury shouldn't have like Georgia? Good composed song, much better then mostly of this year, and only haters (why?) so care about who composed it
RainyWoods
Croak-kay
I'm curious to know whether the jury has ever messed anyone up as badly as they have done Montenegro, Switzerland and Bulgaria this year? Songs that were 4th, 5th and 6th place missing the final... has there ever been countries robbed like that before? Usually it's countries in 9th and 10th place with the public vote that have missed out. This new way of doing the votes has had a disastrous effect.
watersoup
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Last year, they managed to reduce Norway to being one point away from missing out on the final after it was 6th in the public vote. In 2011, they stopped Armenia from qualifying after it was 7th in the public vote and in 2010, they sunk Finland after it was 6th in the televote. We don't know exactly where Montenegro, Switzerland or Bulgaria actually came in the public vote, although it is indeed likely that at least one of them was 6th or higher.
laxsnor
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After reading this escXtra article: Editorial: What do the ‘split results’ tell us? | escXtra I decided to do the same math for the final. I could not find a number of countries voting in the televote that ended with mostly whole numbers. Unless there was a tie and two countries were each given #,5 points, then I'm not sure how this is possible.
watersoup
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Nope. Their average position across all countries that voted was the 4th/5th/6th highest. That doesn't mean they would have finished in those positions according to the Eurovision scoring system.
For example, an entry that finished 11th in the televote of every country would have an average of 11.00 and would appear to have done pretty well (assuming this is the final) according to the stats released when in reality, they would have ended with 0 points on voting alone. An entry that is ranked 1st, 7th and 25th by three different countries will also have an average of 11.00 from those three countries but will have gained 16 points.
Countries that tend to get a lot of "friendly" votes appear to have performed worse than they actually did because they have a relatively small number of countries giving them very good positions then everyone else dragging their average down by ranking them, say, 20th when in reality, there is no difference between 11th and 20th in terms of how many points that country gets. For this reason, I believe that the televote was in fact won by either Ukraine or Azerbaijan and this is why we are not being told the actual televoting result.
A-lister
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Because what's the point in having a contest with the concept "entries representing their countries" if all it takes is to shop around for entries abroad?
Sure, with the current rules, an entry that is good but imported shouldn't be punished just because it's imported, but it shouldn't get encouraged either... and especially seeing more original and true stuff being punished while the imported safe stuff being favored by the juries, it's disgusting and contra to the very idea of this contest.
And I think the Georgian entry was utterly ridiculous and have no place in today's music, nor did it represent Georgian music what-so-ever... but that is of course my own opinion (the first part of my sentence)...