Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2019 - not taking part

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

5.4% is not enough for me plus Id rather have an englishspeaking unpolitical voting country than another russianspeaking Country which benefits already unfair advantaged countries. There is absolutely no advantage in letting kazakhstan participate.

Where did you find the number "5.4%"? Anyways Kazakhstan's European part alone is still larger than some countries taking part, but I see with your comment that what you ACTUALLY want is a POLITICAL contest where some countries are let in, regardless if they are in Europe or not, if they belong to (according to you) the "correct" group of countries... it's the pure definition of political selection.

I for one know that Europe is diverse and Eurovision should be about celebrating European diversity, not the results of British colonialism or American cultural domination... I don't mind British culture and I consider myself a "westerner", but I also know that Europe is so much more but hey, ignorance is bliss!

 

[Realest]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Where did you find the number "5.4%"? Anyways Kazakhstan's European part alone is still larger than some countries taking part, but I see with your comment that what you ACTUALLY want is a POLITICAL contest where some countries are let in, regardless if they are in Europe or not, if they belong to (according to you) the "correct" group of countries... it's the pure definition of political selection.

I for one know that Europe is diverse and Eurovision should be about celebrating European diversity, not the results of British colonialism or American cultural domination... I don't mind British culture and I consider myself a "westerner", but I also know that Europe is so much more but hey, ignorance is bliss!

On Wikipedia is written 5.4% belongs to Europe.
And no, I want an unpolitical Contest where music matters. The Televoter from the german speaking countries f.e. (except the portuguese/albanian/serbian/italians in Switzerland) prove how well it can work. Im against Kazahstan to prevent further politisation which benefits Russia etc.. And if you didnt noticed it, Im also against Australia, but at least Australia has the least political televoting in the world.

 

[Realest]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

XD
There's the reason then, I see.

Aiming at '11 and Vorobyov ending up 7th. Yeah everyone hated it, there's not the slightest chance anyone could've liked it.
So I guess Poland was 19th in SF in '11 and somehow we've turned diaspora voting / GUARANTEED POINTS off for that year, and then in '16 we were 3rd - ofc only because we've turned diaspora voting back on. Click and done.
Looks like I've been wrong my whole life, it's nothing about the performance, it's 102% political contest and everything is political and about neighbourhoods. Israel winning, Portugal winning first time ever, Ukraine winning, these were tiny whoopsies cause diasporas of Russia/Serbia/whatevs missed the recap bars with phone numbers.

Just to make sure and prevent additional pointless crying: They vote for each other. I couldn't care less cause one needs 500+ points to win, and with the 10-20 from their besties they can still miss the GF. All the examples provided in quoted post are just dumb. You watch the show for the fair voting results, I watch it for the music. End of story.

No, I only wanted to show that Russia is the only Country who can come 7th with Vorobyow. I dont say that noone else liked the song, but give the same song to switzerland and this song ends up as 15th-20th probably. And no, Televoting is always fair when its about winning or ending up in the Top5 but nothing more. I never said the opposite. Thats why Portugal and Israel deservedly win. I said Eurovision is for me at least also about getting a fair result and blockvoting its way up and getting 5-15 better positions better nearly every year is faraway from being fair. If I want to watch kazakh music, I go to youtube, but at Eurovision I dont want to see it. Just my Opinion.

 

[Ichbinjari]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

I hate to see the discussion about Kazakhstan as a geographic entity and if it connects with Europe as the most of us know it or envision it. It is part of Europe (although it is 5,4%), but it is also part of the EBU and therefore it must be able to participate, right? In the past we had Marocco (also no European country) and you can question if Turkey belongs to Europe how the most of Europeans see it. I think the East-European countries share much more with the former Sovjet-State Kazachstan than they do with a country like Iceland (which is by the way also very remote from Europe).

And by the way, I liked Vorobyow very much. He is still my crush and I still hope he'll marry me some day. Also the argument that you can watch Kazakh music on youtube instead is a bit weak. You can also watch Serbian music on Youtube or Nordic Folkmusic on youtube, but that doesn't mean we have to exclude those countries?

 

[John1]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Why wouldn't be allowed to take part at the ESC, while did participate with their territory being partly located in Europe ? Even and , who are both far from belonging to Europe geographically speaking, were allowed to join the EBU. Moreover, I assume that Kazakhstan is closer to the European boundaries than we think, only 5% of its territory is part of Europe right? That should be enough, I guess.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

No, I only wanted to show that Russia is the only Country who can come 7th with Vorobyow. I dont say that noone else liked the song, but give the same song to switzerland and this song ends up as 15th-20th probably. And no, Televoting is always fair when its about winning or ending up in the Top5 but nothing more. I never said the opposite. Thats why Portugal and Israel deservedly win. I said Eurovision is for me at least also about getting a fair result and blockvoting its way up and getting 5-15 better positions better nearly every year is faraway from being fair. If I want to watch kazakh music, I go to youtube, but at Eurovision I dont want to see it. Just my Opinion.

Well, your whole reasoning for them not being allowed is political since you clearly put some countries on a pedestal, I also think it's proven we have problematic voting patterns coming also from Western countries (diaspora votes, political votes etc.). I think blocking a country because you don't like that there will be potential votes for another, while in the same breath saying that you prefer to have another English speaking country instead is kind of showing that you don't recognize some parts of Europe as equals when in fact they are just as much a part of Europe and their cultures and languages also belong to this continent. If it wasn't the case that Kazakhstan lays partly within continental Europe and all that jazz, then sure I agree they shouldn't be let in, just like Australia should have never been either, since I firmly believe that Eurovision should be a European affair, but now it just so happens they are partly within Europe and their part is procentually larger than some other countries' parts, also the part alone is larger than various countries that are fully within the continent, so from a geographical point of view it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Yoozek]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

No, I only wanted to show that Russia is the only Country who can come 7th with Vorobyow.

Right. Then Sweden is the only country who can come 3rd with Saade and Germany is the only country who can come 1st with Lena - too bad it's not about performance and that's why she's won two times in a row...wait what.

He sold the song, live with that.

 

[Haverdge]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Why wouldn't be allowed to take part at the ESC, while did participate with their territory being partly located in Europe ? Even and , who are both far from belonging to Europe geographically speaking, were allowed to join the EBU. Moreover, I assume that Kazakhstan is closer to the European boundaries than we think, only 5% of its territory is part of Europe right? That should be enough, I guess.

That's not correct. We're actually very close to belonging to Europe, even geographically speaking.

 

[John1]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

That's not correct. We're actually very close to belonging to Europe, even geographically speaking.

Indeed, I noticed it a few days ago, while I was looking at a map of Europe... I thought that was way closer to the European borders than and did. Sorry, my mistake.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Indeed, I noticed it a few days ago, while I was looking at a map of Europe... I thought that was way closer to the European borders than and did. Sorry, my mistake.

Kazakhstan is partly within the European borders so obviously it's "closer" than countries that don't even have any part within the continent, both and have tiny parts within the continent too though, but it's true that although isn't technically part of Europe geographically, it does border three countries that are (partly) and they can also be considered part of Europe due to various other factors, for sure they are more part of Europe than they are of Middle East / Asia which they geographically belong to.

 

[tuorem]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Kazakhstan is partly within the European borders so obviously it's "closer" than countries that don't even have any part within the continent, both and have tiny parts within the continent too though, but it's true that although isn't technically part of Europe geographically, it does border three countries that are (partly) and they can also be considered part of Europe due to various other factors, for sure they are more part of Europe than they are of Middle East / Asia which they geographically belong to.

This reminds me the "European" Broadcasting Area doesn't make any sense, at least geographically-speaking.

These three countries you mentioned apparently were outside the European Broadcasting Area until 2007 (probably considered to be located in Western Asia), then it was expanded specifically for them, which was a coherent move imo.

To this day, Kazakhstan remains out of it despite having a part of their territory in geographical Europe, yet a handful of countries from Africa and the Middle East have all it takes to participate in the contest if they wanted to (part of the EBA, active EBU membership): the irony.

Unlike Australia, allowing Kazakhstan to take part in the main contest (now that they're featured in JESC) wouldn't mean opening Pandora's box: with Liechtenstein, it's the only remaining nation that could have good reasons to join the party imo. It's not like it would open a breach for their Central Asian neighbours or anything: Kazakhstan happens to be a transcontinental nation in the same way as Russia.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

This reminds me the "European" Broadcasting Area doesn't make any sense, at least geographically-speaking.

These three countries you mentioned apparently were outside the European Broadcasting Area until 2007 (probably considered to be located in Western Asia), then it was expanded specifically for them, which was a coherent move imo.

To this day, Kazakhstan remains out of it despite having a part of their territory in geographical Europe, yet a handful of countries from Africa and the Middle East have all it takes to participate in the contest if they wanted to (part of the EBA, active EBU membership): the irony.

Unlike Australia, allowing Kazakhstan to take part in the main contest (now that they're featured in JESC) wouldn't mean opening Pandora's box: with Liechtenstein, it's the only remaining nation that could have good reasons to join the party imo. It's not like it would open a breach for their Central Asian neighbours or anything: Kazakhstan happens to be a transcontinental nation in the same way as Russia.

This! The whole EBU broadcasting area nonsense is just a scam anyways (Australia says hi ) and in these times we're in, the technical solutions are already there so there isn't really a geographical obstacle just for broadcasting the contest or take part in it either, the only issue that could occur is when a country that is time zones away (Australia says hi again ) would end up winning and perhaps hosting.

I think the rule, if we want Eurovision to stay well, EUROvision, would be to simply only allow countries that are fully or partly within the continent to take part (and thus Kazakhstan would be eligible), I guess an exception could be made for those countries that are close and already took part for more than a decade in the contest (Israel, Cyprus, Armenia). A rule like that seems logical, wheres the broadcasting area thing doesn't really (maybe in the past, but clearly not any longer).

 

[Sammy]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

I'm AMAZED, how often you can discuss this over and over again. If I get a penny for every time A-Lister says that Kazhakstan is (partly) in Europe, I could stop woking.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

I'm AMAZED, how often you can discuss this over and over again. If I get a penny for every time A-Lister says that Kazhakstan is (partly) in Europe, I could stop woking.

I hope for you someone will give you that then I'm AMAZED though how often someone can have opinions over and over again about other forum members while not actually adding something substantial to the ongoing discussion him or herself, I mean no one is forcing anyone to read the threads right ?

Apparently it needs to repeated though since many still seem not to grasp it, and to be frank there's not much more to discuss in this thread since there is no news and probably won't be either...

 

[Yoozek]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

I'm AMAZED, how often you can discuss this over and over again.

how often someone can have opinions over and over again about <xyz> while not actually adding something substantial to the ongoing discussion .

You've literally admitted to spamming.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

You've literally admitted to spamming.

Is that so? Well, you know that people can actually read the originally respond I gave so not sure what good adjusting it here to fit some point makes?

So what exactly did you add to this thread of value other than continuing this silly "gosh that A-lister is so annoying let's say that in all threads because we're sooo cool hiding behind computer screens and nicknames" circle-jerk club you guys have?

So any opinion on the ACTUAL topic? No I didn't think so... well next.

 

[Haverdge]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Kazakhstan is partly within the European borders so obviously it's "closer" than countries that don't even have any part within the continent, both and have tiny parts within the continent too though, but it's true that although isn't technically part of Europe geographically, it does border three countries that are (partly) and they can also be considered part of Europe due to various other factors, for sure they are more part of Europe than they are of Middle East / Asia which they geographically belong to.

Exactly. It's just like Cyprus is geographically in Asia, but in the EU. Besides, nobody in Armenia considers themselves Asian or Middle Eastern.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Exactly. It's just like Cyprus is geographically in Asia, but in the EU. Besides, nobody in Armenia considers themselves Asian or Middle Eastern.

Yup! I think very few even think of Cyprus as anything other than European anyways since it's culturally (Greek, Orthodox), politically (EU, Eurozone, Council of Europe etc.), ethnically (Greek) and socially European (except for maybe the part invaded by Turkey but hey...), geographically it's an island that technically is much closer to mainland Europe than for instance Iceland is (although the latter is geographically part of the continent).

 

[Sammy]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

[MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION]
I don‘t need to participate in a discussion to earn the right to read it or have an opinion on it. There‘s no need to feel offended by my comment (if that was the case at all )

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

[MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION]
I don‘t need to participate in a discussion to earn the right to read it or have an opinion on it. There‘s no need to feel offended by my comment (if that was the case at all )

Surely you don't need to, and my comment was more generally directed to people who complain more about others than add something to the discussion themselves, it wasn't directly to you personally though and sorry if it came across that way (I can see why it did).

I just find it peculiar that some in this forum brings little to none to certain discussions, yet they are often there to ridicule others that actually do talk about the certain topic. I just don't see the point that's all? That's what I meant with why reading if it annoys someone, it's not like someone is forced to spend their time in here, but some people (me included) actually like to discuss in some threads, yes it happens that the same discussion re-occurs, but then so what? Is it harming anyone? Did I personally insult someone by responding with geographical facts? Like I wrote, there's just so much you can write in this thread, if you take a look at the history, many of my posts in here are actually responds to people who raise the same concerns, hence the responses or arguments are the same.

If Kazakhstan actually would take part or if we at least get some closure on the topic, I guess there would be something else to talk about other than argumenting back and forth why they shouldn't or shouldn't take part.

I'm not offended, just surprised how usually the same group of people are so quick to make remarks about my posts (and others), and basically see that that's all they bring to the threads. I really don't see the value in it to be honest, you are of course free to comment and read as you please, but this recurring theme is imo a bigger issue than someone arguing about the topic back and forth. I barely spend as much time on this forum as I did in the past, yet some people are always quick to make remarks even when I might have not added something new to certain threads for months.

Oh well, nuff about that, just tried to explain my side.