Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2019 - not taking part

[tuorem]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Thats not my Mainargument (The Political Structures), but still, Russia has enough unfair Advantages. And Someone like Julia shouldnt shouldnt be Top10 in the Televoting. Its ridiculous enough that we needed the Juries in case of Kazakhstan Participation to keep her off the GrandFinal.

Political structures aren't (at least officially) a criterion for ESC participation though. I understand it might be upsetting to some that nations with questionable governments are taking part, but that's not the point: the contest was meant to gather nations, not just certain types of "ideal" regimes. Same thing with the LGBT rights/media freedom/you-name-it talks, it's got nothing to do with a nation's ability or legitimacy to take part in or host the contest.

As for Yulia potentially reaching the televoting top 10, I don't find it shocking at all. I mean viewers aren't required to do anything but vote, whatever the reasons, and they've certainly voted for more disputable acts in the past tbh. The juries did their work however, we all knew if Russians were to struggle, it would be due to juries for the most part. 10th or 11th with televoters, the outcome would have remained the same.

 

[mauve]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Thats not my Mainargument (The Political Structures), but still, Russia has enough unfair Advantages. And Someone like Julia shouldnt shouldnt be Top10 in the Televoting. Its ridiculous enough that we needed the Juries in case of Kazakhstan Participation to keep her off the GrandFinal.

And talking of Juries, they don't always have the sensibility for songs that they should have. Like this year Italy. Televoters saved them. The Jury gave this song way too less points. Something I didn't understand. So Jury isn't always a saint.

 

[Realest]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Political structures aren't (at least officially) a criterion for ESC participation though. I understand it might be upsetting to some that nations with questionable governments are taking part, but that's not the point: the contest was meant to gather nations, not just certain types of "ideal" regimes. Same thing with the LGBT rights/media freedom/you-name-it talks, it's got nothing to do with a nation's ability or legitimacy to take part in or host the contest.

As for Yulia potentially reaching the televoting top 10, I don't find it shocking at all. I mean viewers aren't required to do anything but vote, whatever the reasons, and they've certainly voted for more disputable acts in the past tbh. The juries did their work however, we all knew if Russians were to struggle, it would be due to juries for the most part. 10th or 11th with televoters, the outcome would have remained the same.

If Julia represented Switzerland she woud get 0 Points, dont you think its unfair that she qualified (TV only) over objective more Professional Acts like Netherlands or Poland only because she Represents a geopolitically Mighty Country. I thought this is supposed to be a Musiccontest, but the Reasons she would be 10th are highpolitical Ones and thats Reason enough to keep every Country away that strenghtens Russias Politicpower. Also it has to be mentioned that the Kazakh Jurymembers probably arent able to vote independent like the Azeris f.e. and if Kazakhstan is once in, we will never get rid of it.

And talking of Juries, they don't always have the sensibility for songs that they should have. Like this year Italy. Televoters saved them. The Jury gave this song way too less points. Something I didn't understand. So Jury isn't always a saint.

This is your subjective Opinion and I dont care about it tbh.. Also this is completely Offtopic btw..

 

[mauve]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

This is your subjective Opinion and I dont care about it tbh.. Also this is completely Offtopic btw..

Thank you for being so understanding. You are also just stating mostly subjective opinions by the way. But I don't care either.

 

[Realest]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Thank you for being so understanding. You are also just stating mostly subjective opinions by the way. But I don't care either.

When I say that Russia gets unfair highpolitical Votes which have nothing to do with Music it is an objective Fact
I know geopolitical Voting exists everywhere but the extent in which Russia benefits from it is extremely unfair compared to others.

 

[tuorem]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

If Julia represented Switzerland she woud get 0 Points, dont you think its unfair that she qualified (TV only) over objective more Professional Acts like Netherlands or Poland only because she Represents a geopolitically Mighty Country. I thought this is supposed to be a Musiccontest, but the Reasons she would be 10th are highpolitical Ones and thats Reason enough to keep every Country away that strenghtens Russias Politicpower. Also it has to be mentioned that the Kazakh Jurymembers probably arent able to vote independent like the Azeris f.e. and if Kazakhstan is once in, we will never get rid of it.

Yes, it's unfair that countries will never be treated the same way, both from televoters and juries. Russia isn't the only case though, other countries can fare decently with songs that would bomb if it were sent by XYZ. But that doesn't mean they should be castigated for the support they get, otherwise they'd never be able to do well whatever the song.

"I Won't Break" narrowly beating "Outlaw In 'Em" in televoting (Poland beat Russia btw) isn't that surprising to me since the former has broader appeal and is somehow catchier too. Russia was current/radio-friendly pop while The Netherlands were niche. Viewers couldn't care less about acts being/sounding professional, they either like/remember you or dislike/forget you. By the way, being more professional doesn't necessarily mean much: Iriao were super professional and still ended dead last. It's also a matter of connecting with people on a particular night.

Finally, out of the bubble, people who like Russia 2018 do exist If Eurovision should be a music-based contest, then there's no reason to politicise it even more by trying to "fight" countries with geopolitical support for that sole reason.

 

[Realest]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Yes, it's unfair that countries will never be treated the same way, both from televoters and juries. Russia isn't the only case though, other countries can fare decently with songs that would bomb if it were sent by XYZ. But that doesn't mean they should be castigated for the support they get, otherwise they'd never be able to do well whatever the song.

"I Won't Break" narrowly beating "Outlaw In 'Em" in televoting (Poland beat Russia btw) isn't that surprising to me since the former has broader appeal and is somehow catchier too. Russia was current/radio-friendly pop while The Netherlands were niche. Viewers couldn't care less about acts being/sounding professional, they either like/remember you or dislike/forget you. By the way, being more professional doesn't necessarily mean much: Iriao were super professional and still ended dead last. It's also a matter of connecting with people on a particular night.

Finally, out of the bubble, people who like Russia 2018 do exist If Eurovision should be a music-based contest, then there's no reason to politicise it even more by trying to "fight" countries with geopolitical support for that sole reason.

"I wont break" didnt have broader Appeal than "Outlaw in em". Just Calculate how many Russians voted for their own Country and how few Dutch voted for their own Country. The Answer to IWBs Victory over OIE is Politics. If Eurovision should be an musicbased Contest, then Russia wouldnt be 11th (and 10th if KZ participated and gave their 12 Points to RU to help Julia overtaking PL). And to prevent further Politisation and unfair, corrupt Voting and leading Eurovision in the Direction towards a Musiccontest, KZ needs to stay away is my Opinion.

 

[Alaska49]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

i repeat: WHY NOT SIMPLY TAKE RUSSIA OUT THEN LOL

that's fairer than "kazakhstan needs to stay out because they'd help russia and tough luck @ them for being the last russian ally to get in"

 

[tuorem]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

i repeat: WHY NOT SIMPLY TAKE RUSSIA OUT THEN LOL

that's fairer than "kazakhstan needs to stay out because they'd help russia and tough luck @ them for being the last russian ally to get in"

No, [MENTION=15870]Realest[/MENTION] is right. Kazakhstan is too much trouble, let's have Uzbekistan instead #Tashkent2020 #UzbekIsTheNewBlack

 

[Gabe]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Literally everything depends on Council of Europe membership. Kazakhstan are observers but have been recognised as being able to apply for full membership. As soon as they gain full membership, broadcasters will clamour to get into the EBU, and then they will ALL want ESC as it's a massive event, and would be a huge prestige stamp for any channel. Then they will send some incredible ethnopop and take us all to Astana. Easy.

 

[John1]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Literally everything depends on Council of Europe membership. Kazakhstan are observers but have been recognised as being able to apply for full membership. As soon as they gain full membership, broadcasters will clamour to get into the EBU, and then they will ALL want ESC as it's a massive event, and would be a huge prestige stamp for any channel. Then they will send some incredible ethnopop and take us all to Astana. Easy.

Why didn't they decide to apply for full membership yet? I mean, this might have been a pretty long time since they became observers. The time has come.

 

[Gera11]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Why didn't they decide to apply for full membership yet? I mean, this might have been a pretty long time since they became observers. The time has come.

In December 2013, a Joint Declaration on enhancing cooperation between Kazakhstan and the Council of Europe in 2014–15, was signed with the purpose of paving the way for Kazakhstan's accession to the Council of Europe's multiple conventions in the field of criminal justice

While they are making progress, they still have some work to do in the fields of democracy and human rights, so probably that's why.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Literally everything depends on Council of Europe membership. Kazakhstan are observers but have been recognised as being able to apply for full membership. As soon as they gain full membership, broadcasters will clamour to get into the EBU, and then they will ALL want ESC as it's a massive event, and would be a huge prestige stamp for any channel. Then they will send some incredible ethnopop and take us all to Astana. Easy.

Australia :

- Not a member of Council of Europe
- Not in the EBU broadcasting area

I rest my case...

And if EBU is blocking Kazakhstan due to "democracy concerns", let me just laugh at that because we know it's not true (if it was then we'd have half of the countries thrown out of ESC already and they wouldn't be on their knees for Russia and for Turkey to come back constantly).

 

[Gabe]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Australia :

- Not a member of Council of Europe
- Not in the EBU broadcasting area

I rest my case...

And if EBU is blocking Kazakhstan due to "democracy concerns", let me just laugh at that because we know it's not true (if it was then we'd have half of the countries thrown out of ESC already and they wouldn't be on their knees for Russia and for Turkey to come back constantly).

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.

My point was simply that Kazakhstan has the ability to enter via conventional means

 

[John1]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

In December 2013, a Joint Declaration on enhancing cooperation between Kazakhstan and the Council of Europe in 2014–15, was signed with the purpose of paving the way for Kazakhstan's accession to the Council of Europe's multiple conventions in the field of criminal justice

While they are making progress, they still have some work to do in the fields of democracy and human rights, so probably that's why.

is part of the Council of Europe though. This country is truly not a proper embodiement of democracy and a country, which is always promoting human rights as much as does...

 

[rikylouis14]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Kazakhstan for me is like a western North korea, with an exuberant capital like Astana, the same with Pyongyang, Between them and australia I prefer them to enter, I´m not against

 

[Citelis]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Eurovision is not about democracy but about music

There are some countries that taking part every year and are not free at all. I don't see any problem at all.

 

[Himan]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Kazakhstan for me is like a western North korea, with an exuberant capital like Astana, the same with Pyongyang, Between them and australia I prefer them to enter, I´m not against

You have more information about Kazakhstan than I have? I don't believe Kazakhstan is the worst by far in that area. Turkmenistan though, I heard that place is very fun!

 

[Citelis]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan are far worse thsn Kazakhstan actually! You won't find much democracy in the region at all!

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2019

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.

My point was simply that Kazakhstan has the ability to enter via conventional means

It's ok, the comment wasn't really directed at you, more showing the hypocrisy of EBU.