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Israel ISRAEL 2024 - Eden Golan - Hurricane

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ESC United Mod Team

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Please keep discussion in this thread specific to Eden Golan and her song, Israel's (potential) participation in Eurovision 2024 and discussions or remarks from other countries and organisations about Israel's participation.

Any further discussion of a political or humanitarian nature not relating to specifically Israel in Eurovision 2024 needs to go into the politics sub-forum. Thank you!
 
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Mainshow

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Can you link it?

@Mainshow, Israel just changed the title from "October Rain" to "Hurricane". Very similar case as Armenia 2015, when they switched from "Don't Deny" to "Face the Shadow" and everything was fine, even though they kept original title in the lyrics :D

The lyrics have changed a lot - it wasn't just the title.

:am: 2015 was another completely lost case - "don't deny" - I mean, the political message wasn't even hidden anymore :D
 

Paco Roca

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We can speculate a lot and each say our point of view but now the eggs are broken. I'm just saying that the disaster could have been easily stopped. The EBU, by cowardly choosing the path of making everyone happy, has ruined the contest and also the image of the brand (which is increasingly turning into a farce). A rule must be written that states that any nation directly involved in a conflict (either as an injured or offending part) cannot participate in the contest. Community balance cannot be destroyed, the sense of celebration cannot be ruined, competition cannot be drugged. The injured party can be sent as a special guest because no one will leave the one who is suffering behind. The offending part, based on an internal judgment on the seriousness of the crimes committed, will be disqualified for 10 years at the end of which the decision will be discussed again. Finally, any artist who does not adhere to their country's dictator, as has happened in several Olympic editions, will sing under an international flag. It is not fair, for example, that Russian artists who disagree with Putin's actions should be punished. Written rules and a steady arm are needed. Only in this way can we avoid increasing racial hatred.

I'll quickly add and close one thing about anti-Semitism. It's a somewhat nebulous concept. Criticizing Israel's actions or saying something that goes outside the way of thinking instilled in us by the mass media is not anti-Semitism. Those who easily shout about anti-Semitism, fueling a witch-hunt climate, are creating walls and friction. They are the same "champions of justice" who for years have shouted, some even for personal gain (to present their books or enter politics), against discrimination have created a climate of diversity and hatred.

Winner 2024 Bambie Thug and see you again to 2025 edition.
 

Preuss

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"We're all here for one reason". OK, miss universe

KAN is there for propaganda. I don't think the other delegations are there for that same reason.

A ESC expert in Norway said Israel was allowed to participate cause the broadcaster is independent from the government? Idk what to make out of this anymore... considering today's nature of things of course there will be something political about everything xthink
 

Chorizo

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Nice to see that people who want to exclude Israel to keep the contest free from politics live to their own standards, vote exclusively upon the song and leave politics completely aside. :mrgreen:
Do you remember the people who in 2015 insisted to support Russia because Polina wasn't Putin and because Eurovision is just an apolitical song contest? They said that the Russian broadcaster and Polina might actually be sincere when they talk about peace. Many of those people realized in 2022 that they had fallen for Russian propaganda. It's not apolitical to fall for propaganda, it is merely naive.
 

Preuss

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Manifesting 400 points for Israel in televote and 350 points from jurry. That will do it. xpray
Good morning to Israel and all Israeli supporters. I wish you all the best day possible. And when I mean best day possible I mean Israeli win at Eurovision.. reading haters comments on Sunday, I will need a lot of popcorn. :)

I'm wondering what juries will give Israel points? Being from Scandinavia I know there probably won't be any juries here who'll give them points but I don't really know how the other 30+ nations stand regarding Israel and the conflict. Please enlighten me
 

PolarFoxxie.

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I'm wondering what juries will give Israel points? Being from Scandinavia I know there probably won't be any juries here who'll give them points but I don't really know how the other 30+ nations stand regarding Israel and the conflict. Please enlighten me
Why wouldn't your jurry give points to Israel? Are they antisemites by any means???? because Jew hating is very popular in Eurovision nowadays.
 

Uto

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A ESC expert in Norway said Israel was allowed to participate cause the broadcaster is independent from the government? Idk what to make out of this anymore... considering today's nature of things of course there will be something political about everything xthink
This is a logical explanation, but then again we are talking about Israel which has pretty deplorable standards of press freedom across the board so it's not an argument one can weigh as being particularly powerful. I mean it's clearly not as bad as our favorite totalitarian state Azerbaijan, but press freedom in Israel is not remotely close to what we consider a normal European standard. This is a recent change though and I think people around the world do not really appreciate how bad things have gotten in Israel in a really short amount of time. Well, now they do, but I mean it took Gaza to learn and we can't afford such prices for our lessons.
 

4815162342

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This is a logical explanation, but then again we are talking about Israel which has pretty deplorable standards of press freedom across the board so it's not an argument one can weigh as being particularly powerful. I mean it's clearly not as bad as our favorite totalitarian state Azerbaijan, but press freedom in Israel is not remotely close to what we consider a normal European standard. This is a recent change though and I think people around the world do not really appreciate how bad things have gotten in Israel in a really short amount of time. Well, now they do, but I mean it took Gaza to learn and we can't afford such prices for our lessons.

What do you mean by that? Care to give examples?
 

soulm8

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She is not bothered at all with what is going on! People call this strength, I have other words for that, but gonna keep it for myself. At the beginning I was okay with her, I usually never blame the people for what their government is doing, but she is here to make propaganda and that honey is support for the government. I hope every single jury put this last during the jury show!
 

Uto

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What do you mean by that? Care to give examples?
No I wouldn't know about that in detail, but it was pretty notable that things were plummeting in the reports by the RSF (the organisation for press freedom). Base data is on wiki here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index

Israel is at like 53 point something. That's quite low. I wouldn't know what that means in practice, but at the very least normal political discourse will be impacted at that point.
 

4815162342

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No I wouldn't know about that in detail, but it was pretty notable that things were plummeting in the reports by the RSF (the organisation for press freedom). Base data is on wiki here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index

Israel is at like 53 point something. That's quite low. I wouldn't know what that means in practice, but at the very least normal political discourse will be impacted at that point.

Interesting!
Wish I had the time to look into this in detail. No idea what questions are asked and how they evaluate their scores. I am a bit confused how countries like Gambia and Liberia can have a higher score than South Korea or similar to USA or that countries like Burkina Faso and Botswana had the same score as Italy, UK or Spain a few years ago.
 

Chorizo

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The amount of anti-Jewish and antisemtic remarks are frightening and truly disgusting.
Here and on social media.

It's perfectly fine to protest and discuss Israel's participation but honestly? That ship has sailed. They're taking part, they qualified and it has been known since March that they would be part of it.

What I personally dislike and what fills my heart with fear: fans jumping on each and tiny rumour, piece of information and blaming Israel.

Joost got suspended? - "I fully support him" (posted in here, liked by others - same on social media) - "without Eden/Israel it wouldn't have happened".
Apparently, the police is involved. He might have hit a Swedish camera woman - no Jew involved - but still, people claim that it's because of Israel's "money" and keep on telling us that Moroccan Oil is an Israeli company. Jews "ruling the world because of money" is a hateful, disgraceful and absolutely disgusting stereotype which should have been debunked decades ago and here we are: young Eurovision fans across the continent mouthing the same shit without knowing any details.

It's crazy that internalised hatred for Israel and Jewish made people support Joost despite us knowing what truly happened.

Oh and when it got "known" that he might have hit someone - fans claimed it must be because of Israel as well. One of the Israel's delegation made fun of his dead parents. Suddenly, some fans support violence commenting that "Joost should have hit harder" and again, demanding the EBU to disqualify Eden.

What am I trying to say:

Israel are in Malmö - you may dislike it (fair enough) - but they're taking part.
Personally, I think it's disgusting to see how fans blame Israel for everything what doesn't happen as planned in Malmö.
You are just trying to shut down legitimate criticism of Israel with accusations of anti-Semitism. That's a cheap tactic often employed by Israel. Nobody is falling for that anymore. People won't be silenced this way anymore but rather openly address the elephant in the room, which is a good thing.
 

4815162342

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Really, Gabe? Lets just fuel more hate/anger into Israels participation this year which we all know will go towards Eden.
We don't even know what exactly happened regarding to Joost.
 

Jupiter

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Really, Gabe? Lets just fuel more hate/anger into Israels participation this year which we all know will go towards Eden.
We don't even know what exactly happened regarding to Joost.
There are so many tweets of this nature right now. It's insane.

It's two separate issues. Whatever happened with Joost has nothing to do with Israel. I, too, think some of the behavior of the Israeli delegation is not okay - but that doesn't change anything about what Joost did or didn't do. It's such a bloody mess right now.
 

Uto

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Interesting!
Wish I had the time to look into this in detail. No idea what questions are asked and how they evaluate their scores. I am a bit confused how countries like Gambia and Liberia can have a higher score than South Korea or similar to USA or that countries like Burkina Faso and Botswana had the same score as Italy, UK or Spain a few years ago.
Apart from Botswana (which is the shining light of Africa basically) the African countries you note are all pretty volatile places where press freedom can vary wildly from one year to the next based on who did the last coup so to speak. Places like the USA and South Korea (and Japan also) are pretty paternalistic and corrupt. This might still lead to societies that function pretty well and have a proper degree of freedom, one doesn't exactly need a free press for that if the government agencies are trustworthy enough and provide good service generally, but yeah such countries tend to rely on a political system that involves businesses infiltrating the government which is seen as a very bad thing in Europe, but Americans don't seem to really care and well for South Koreans and Japanese people it probably doesn't even occur to them that it doesn't have to be like that as they have been ruled by respectively 'chaebols' and 'keiretsus' all their lives.

But yeah we digress too much, let us not continue this talk. I hope I have given you some leads to explore further, but this thread is for Israel and their song.
 

Milos-BC

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I hope she won't win tonight. The song is average and it doesn't have anything that one winner needs to have (song-wise). The future of the contest would also be very uncertain and we had way too many tensions and political statements already (on this ESC, especially).

Time will tell...
 

crashworld

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Really, Gabe? Lets just fuel more hate/anger into Israels participation this year which we all know will go towards Eden.
We don't even know what exactly happened regarding to Joost.

What do you even expect from him? He has been the most anti-Israel ESC team member ever.
If anything, he (and many others of these so-called "press") is part of the problem for making this edition as painful as it is.
 
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