Israel ISRAEL 2014 - Mei Finegold - Same Heart

[Mrm]

But @ A-lister they don't have a future in a contest with a full Hebrew song!! When they didn't have a fortune with a GREAT "Milim" which was even a favorite t win the whole contest, and flopped!

Last year didn't qualify for the final,and she sang really good!

 

[ParadiseES]

But @ A-lister they don't have a future in a contest with a full Hebrew song!! When they didn't have a fortune with a GREAT "Milim" which was even a favorite t win the whole contest, and flopped!

Last year didn't qualify for the final,and she sang really good!

"Milim" didn't do as expected because of two reasons:

1- It was sort of an old fashioned ballad. Probably not appealing to a wide part of the audience.
2- Harel was so nervous and f*cked his performance.

Something similar would've happened if he'd sung in English, French or Mandarine Chinese.

 

[A-lister]

But @ A-lister they don't have a future in a contest with a full Hebrew song!! When they didn't have a fortune with a GREAT "Milim" which was even a favorite t win the whole contest, and flopped!

Last year didn't qualify for the final,and she sang really good!

Of course they have! Hungary ended up top. 10 last year with a quirky indie song fully in Hungarian... that's nonsense!

Well, it's true that it was unfair last year, but I think part of the issue was that it was just visually unappealing...

 

[evija87]

Harel's Milim was fully in Hebrew and made it. Time from Izabo was mostly in English and didn't. Moran was robbed big time I don't think Israel should get discouraged from singing in their language. Many depend on the song. Of course things like injustice happen, like last year with Moran :/ but if the song is great - it's most important for her to fullfil the package - because Mei's got a voice and charisma so it should be not that of a problem.

 

[A-lister]

"Milim" didn't do as expected because of two reasons:

1- It was sort of an old fashioned ballad. Probably not appealing to a wide part of the audience.
2- Harel was so nervous and f*cked his performance.

Something similar would've happened if he'd sung in English, French or Mandarine Chinese.

Thank you!

I really hope they'll continue sticking to Hebrew... that's not part of the issue here... Israel has proven they can be successful with Hebrew (2005 & 2008)... well yeah, they were performed in bi-lingual versions but I highly doubt they'd end up worse if they were sung fully in Hebrew!

 

[Mrm]

But a vocal of this singer is so good for some entry in English! It can be really GREAT!

 

[A-lister]

But a vocal of this singer is so good for some entry in English! It can be really GREAT!

Wow you really hate on native languages :/

"A vocal good for English"... what does that even mean? Her vocals are good regardless... how can a vocal be fit for a particular language?

I hope IBA got the backbone to stick to Hebrew... scr*w this Anglofication of ESC... it's killing it!

 

[Sean]

Wow you really hate on native languages :/

And you really hate on English

Language is irrelevant. All of the songs are in the same language at ESC anyway; music.

 

[GWTW1939]

"Milim" didn't do as expected because of two reasons:

1- It was sort of an old fashioned ballad. Probably not appealing to a wide part of the audience.
2- Harel was so nervous and f*cked his performance.

Something similar would've happened if he'd sung in English, French or Mandarine Chinese.

I think #2 was the biggest reason. Its been shown multiple times that a old fashioned ballad can do well in the televote it just depends on the overall performance.

His clearly obvious nerves just made him look terrible on stage and it destroyed the whole feeling of the performance. It made his mistakes, which where already terrible, look a hundred times worse xdoh. I believe he said the song while his favorite was the most difficult of the choices for him to sing and he let that show. If he had shown more confidence and bravado in his performance (the song especially in the climax really needed that) he could have done better .

 

[A-lister]

And you really hate on English

Language is irrelevant. All of the songs are in the same language at ESC anyway; music.

I don't... I write in it right now don't I?

And to say that languages are irrelevant is really ignorant... then we could have instrumental songs or all songs sung in jibberish instead

I think it's sad when especially native English speakers pretty much say that other languages than English are "irrelevant"... no it's not.

All languages have their own unique characteristics and linguistic tones and melodies which DO effect how they sound musically... you don't just change a language in a song and assume it'll stay the same, because it won't... those characteristics will be changed.

And yes, this is about music... which itself is a universal language... so why do we need all to be in English then? I thought ESC was about celebrating European diversity, not just the English culture

 

[Mrm]

@ A-lister

I'm NOOOOT! :? , just when i hear that raspy voice I think of an entry in English and some international famous singers similar to that...and I have an idea for entry..

 

[A-lister]

@ A-lister

I'm NOOOOT! :? , just when i hear that raspy voice I think of an entry in English and some international famous singers similar to that...and I have an idea for entry..

Ok, but this is Israel and the entry is supposed to represent Israel and not these random international famous singers

I think the most crucial part here is for them to pick a strong entry... because they got a good girl for the job... but the material need to be strong and that CAN be achieved with Hebrew aswell.

 

[GWTW1939]

I find ballads in Hebrew to be very interesting cause there are moments when they can sound very smooth and soulful but other times when they can sound kind of harsh and awkward if that makes sense.

Ballads like "Milim" and "Hasheket Shenish'ar" just flowed beautifully whereas "Rak Bishvilo" in my opinion just didn't . I don't know maybe it was the singer who was singing them, the lyrics, or the overall composition but it felt like there was a difference.

That's just my opinion of course but I can see why "Rak Bishvilo" despite a great performance didn't have enough backing to be pushed into the final by either the jury or televote

 

[A-lister]

I find ballads in Hebrew to be very interesting cause there are moments when they can sound very soulful and other times when it can sound kind of harsh if that makes sense.

Ballads like "Milim" and "Hasheket Shenish'ar" just flowed beautifully whereas "Rak Bishvilo" in my opinion just didn't . I don't know maybe it was the singer who was singing them, the lyrics, or the songs themselves. That's just my opinion of course but I can see why "Rak Bishvilo" didn't have enough backing by either jury or televote to make the final .

I think Hebrew is beautiful and underrated, yes it has those harsh throat sounds (just the idea of turning those into silent "ch" sounds like the cyrillic X and the language would be SOO nice), but I've learned to "live" with those sounds and they don't disturb me at all anymore... I think MOST (not all though) languages can turn nice in music if done in the right way so in that sense I agree.

I totally disagree with your opinion on "Rak Bishvilo" and especially the vocal-obsesses so called "experts" in the juries should have had the decency to "save" that entry (but not... they preferred non-genuine cheese ballads in English instead over a genuine, classy and well song ballad in native language)... the main issue with Israel last year was her general appeal (WHY would she even keep that dress for ESC???)... and of course there's also the anti-Israel political vote factor (unfortunately).

 

[GWTW1939]

Except the jury had no problem pushing "Milim" into the final despite a real lackluster vocal and being rejected by televoters, that was in Hebrew too .

I just think "Rak Bishvilo" brought out the harshness of the Hebrew language and wasn't as pleasant to listen to as other songs. Also the jury did "save" "Rak Bishvilo" and put it in the final (placed 9th) but the televote failed too hard to keep it in

I'm not sure what anti-Israeli political vote there was because they had no problem getting in the finals in 2008-2010. 9th in a sole televote contest in 2008 (5th in semi), 16th (7th in a sole televote semi then killed by singing #2 in the final) in 2009 and 14th (saved in semi by a jury but still a close 12th in the televote) in 2010.

In other words neither the jury or televoters have a problem with Israel its just the last 3 entries weren't as good. They need better songs

 

[QwaarJet]

I don't... I write in it right now don't I?

And to say that languages are irrelevant is really ignorant... then we could have instrumental songs or all songs sung in jibberish instead

I think it's sad when especially native English speakers pretty much say that other languages than English are "irrelevant"... no it's not.

All languages have their own unique characteristics and linguistic tones and melodies which DO effect how they sound musically... you don't just change a language in a song and assume it'll stay the same, because it won't... those characteristics will be changed.

And yes, this is about music... which itself is a universal language... so why do we need all to be in English then? I thought ESC was about celebrating European diversity, not just the English culture

You write in English because you have to, but you hate on English every opportunity you get. If you sometimes agreed a song would be better in English you would have more credibility, but you say the same thing in every thread, as soon as anyone even HINTS about a song being in English, you go off on one, even if it may actually suit English better.

As for Moran, I said last year in the build-up to the contest that I thought Hebrew was the wrong language for Rak Bishvilo and I stand by that. You can talk about the visual as an excuse all you want, but I have no doubt the song being in Hebrew had at least a bit to do with the disaster of a result for Israel. Sometimes song and language just do not bond well together. I feel this was the case with that song.

I feel that with Mei's style of music and vocals that she could pull off Hebrew and English just as well as each other. At the moment I'd be fine with either. But if she goes with English, then you really shouldn't go off on a rampage. Here you are saying it should be in Hebrew when you haven't even heard the damn song yet! ESC is about the music, not the culture of language. That ship sailed when the language rule was abolished.

Let's just wait and see.

 

[A-lister]

Except the jury had no problem pushing "Milim" into the final despite a real lackluster vocal and being rejected by televoters, that was in Hebrew too .

I just think "Rak Bishvilo" brought out the harshness of the Hebrew language and wasn't as pleasant to listen to as other songs. Also the jury did "save" "Rak Bishvilo" and put it in the final (placed 9th) but the televote failed too hard to keep it in

I'm not sure what anti-Israeli political vote there was because they had no problem getting in the finals in 2008-2010. 9th in a sole televote contest in 2008 (5th in semi), 16th (7th in a sole televote semi then killed by singing #2 in the final) in 2009 and 14th (saved in semi by a jury but still a close 12th in the televote) in 2010.

In other words neither the jury or televoters have a problem with Israel its just the last 3 entries weren't as good. They need better songs

Oh yeah, that's correct... "Rak Bishvilo" was indeed 9th (though I think it deserved better).

I dunno, to be honest some times I don't get the logics of the juries...

In Europe there's a general anti-Israel sentiment (unfortunately), whether this reflects in votes or not is not clear to tell... but it could have some influence maybe.

I do agree with your last comment though, not that the entries were bed (I actually liked both 2011 and 2013), but yeah the focus should be on the SONG... they got a singer that I think will pull it off great in terms of vocals and performance... so they don't have to worry about that... now they just need to find a strong song for her to sing.

 

[Matthias]

some languages just don't sound nice, especially not for ballads and i'm afraid Hebrew is one of them.
but singing the song half in Hebrew half in English like they did in 2005 is a good idea, and they reached a wonderful result.
and it's a much better idea than to get singers from a totally different country who has absolutely no connection to the country he is represanting (Cyprus 2010
as an example, also Severine who won for Monaco has actually never been there -.-)

 

[A-lister]

You write in English because you have to, but you hate on English every opportunity you get. If you sometimes agreed a song would be better in English you would have more credibility, but you say the same thing in every thread, as soon as anyone even HINTS about a song being in English, you go off on one, even if it may actually suit English better.

As for Moran, I said last year in the build-up to the contest that I thought Hebrew was the wrong language for Rak Bishvilo and I stand by that. You can talk about the visual as an excuse all you want, but I have no doubt the song being in Hebrew had at least a bit to do with the disaster of a result for Israel. Sometimes song and language just do not bond well together. I feel this was the case with that song.

I feel that with Mei's style of music and vocals that she could pull off Hebrew and English just as well as each other. At the moment I'd be fine with either. But if she goes with English, then you really shouldn't go off on a rampage. Here you are saying it should be in Hebrew when you haven't even heard the damn song yet! ESC is about the music, not the culture of language. That ship sailed when the language rule was abolished.

Let's just wait and see.

Actually, if you think I "hated on English" in ESC you haven't seen my rankings throughout the years I've been a member here, if you find any of them for any edition you'd see that that statement of yours is false.

I don't agree with you that Moran's song should be in English at all, especially since it had a bit of local flavor to it... but we just have to agree to disagree on that one.

It's funny though, you say I shouldn't judge a song before I hear it? But aren't people saying it should be in English sorta doing the same? Why would me wanting the entry to be sung in Hebrew be an opinion with less credibility than someone wishing for English?

The language rule may have been abolished (unfortunately), but the concept of ESC remains and I stick to my interpretation of the concept, and again you totally underestimate languages as if they aren't of any importance. There's firstly the obvious symbolic importance in keeping entries in native languages (afterall ESC's concept is about entries representing their countries and languages is part of this, but seems like people want to strip away everything in this concept to leave us with practically nothing unique), secondly (and I've stated it plenty of times already) languages are unique and have specific characteristics which can be used and sound differently when sung (not only when spoken).

Which leads me to the conclusion that you're totally contradict yourself with your response, you start off by saying that some songs would fit better in English in your opinion and that I should be "open to that idea aswell" and you even argue how their 2013 entry would hypothetically fit better in English... then strangely when it comes to native languages and my opinion on that matter, it's suddenly "all about music" and "languages don't matter"... well apparently it DOES matter for you aswell otherwise you'd see no issue in my comments in the first place and you'd obviously have no issue with "Rak Bishvilo" staying in Hebrew if "languages wouldn't matter and it's all about the music"...

 

[A-lister]

some languages just don't sound nice, especially not for ballads and i'm afraid Hebrew is one of them.
but singing the song half in Hebrew half in English like they did in 2005 is a good idea, and they reached a wonderful result.

I have to disagree, I think ballads fit well in Hebrew and fact of the matter is, it's even more important (imo) for a ballad to come across as genuine and heartfelt than some random uptempo song, therefor I'd argue that when it comes to ballads it's even more important to keep it as "real" and authentic as possible than with non-ballads. A good ballad speaks to the heart and soul, and a good ballad singer connects with her/his song and what better way of doing that than in your own language?

I highly doubt the useless English parts of "Hasheket Shenishar" was the reason Israel succeeded in 2005, the same for Boaz' entry in 2008. I think those two would be successes even if they were fully in Hebrew. I personally never listen to the bi-lignual version of the Israeli 2005 entry, only to the version that is on the ESC CD (which is fully in Hebrew) and if I don't remember wrongly, the emphasis was still on Hebrew and not on English even in the performance version of it.

What Israel need now is a strong song like in 2008 an 2005, it has a singer with the vocals and stage presence and appeal to pull it off so I'm not worrying the nerves that Harel showed in 2010 or the non-appealing appearance of Moran in 2013. This could be a 2005/2008 moment if the entry is right and without a doubt the issue here is not Hebrew, it's about finding a strong entry.