ESC 2012 FINAL DISCUSSION THREAD

[Mannone]

I like predicting. I'm proud when I'm right and I laugh when I fail (I really do laugh).
that's my joy here

Yeah, I'm totally with you. Predicting and laughing (and of course admiring) at each others taste is the only reason to be here. But how fun is it trying to predict something that is prearranged? Or at least you need to doubt what is fact and what is not? Bookmakers probably have some guy that buys information - why do the odds for some countries rise or fall at that split second when the jury-voting has just ended (the day before)? First bribes, then leakes. Eurovision is not bullet proof, and that is why I can't look at this as serious competing. I just love the music.

 

[pokerpupps]

Where can i watch the winners press conference with loreen? Anyone got a link?

 

[Margerita86]

how about, hmm he sings in greek, I UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S SINGING ABOUT?!?!

You voting for last years greek entry is like most of us swedes liking and enjoying finlands entry this year since we can understand and take in right away what the text means.

 

[Andalublue]

how about, hmm he sings in greek, I UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S SINGING ABOUT?!?!

Like the lyrics of Eurovision songs have ever played a part in deciding which is the best song! Lyrics account for about 1% of the appeal of a Eurovision song. After all these years does anyone yet know what A-Ba-Ni-Bi means? I don't, but it's still one of the great, great winners. Placing importance on that is a political decision.

 

[roadrunner]

Where can i watch the winners press conference with loreen? Anyone got a link?

http://www.eurovision.tv/esctv/live/?program=62073

 

[issorus71]

Exactly. The Big 5 is where this become interesting. But first we have to think about Azerbaijan. Their last year victory was just too much in time with their application for the summer olympics in 2020. Baku had to be marketed in a good way, and why not Eurovision? They wanted it badly and they managed to get it. I'm not saying the song was bad, not at all. But it was enough for them to have a professionally produced song to get the victory. The song had enough of support.

Big 5? They should be the force that are pulling against this. They waste a lot of money on this and they are certainly present at every moment. But maybe this is just a facade, and there are no Big 5 at all. I do think Big 5 exists, but what if everything is a conspiracy, ruled by a small group? The Big 5 is what makes my theory unlikely, right? And THAT is also why it is likely. They know that the Big 5-facade is a shield, especially when these countries doesn't often win.

Who knows. What do we know?

I belive the BIG 5 is more of a tradition then a fact. I don't think that some of those countries is still top 5 in putting most money in to EBU considering todays economy. I might ofc be wrong, and then i'm sorry for my faulty speculations, but I think it's a overwhelming chance that it's nothing more then just a tradition

 

[Luki]

I think you'll find that what you explain there is precisely what I mean... politics. In a song contest, why should it mean anything at all that someone speaks your language? It's politics that makes you think, "Hmmm, he's singing in Greek. My mother tongue is Greek, so I must vote for him." If you were judging on merit that wouldn't be a consideration.

You're wrong! This year's bosnian entry was generally hated, but it wouldn't be hated if those people understood the lyrics. I think I would react like that as a stranger, on the other hand I hated slovenian entry. And ever since I'm watching ESC, my TOP 5 always consists of neighbouring countries like Serbia, Bosina & Herzegovina, Slovenia etc. That's just the way it is! We're culturally similar, we're connected in many ways, and ESC seems to be one of those things.

 

[AdelAdel]

Exactly. The Big 5 is where this become interesting. But first we have to think about Azerbaijan. Their last year victory was just too much in time with their application for the summer olympics in 2020. Baku had to be marketed in a good way, and why not Eurovision? They wanted it badly and they managed to get it. I'm not saying the song was bad, not at all. But it was enough for them to have a professionally produced song to get the victory. The song had enough of support.

Big 5? They should be the force that are pulling against this. They waste a lot of money on this and they are certainly present at every moment. But maybe this is just a facade, and there are no Big 5 at all. I do think Big 5 exists, but what if everything is a conspiracy, ruled by a small group? The Big 5 is what makes my theory unlikely, right? And THAT is also why it is likely. They know that the Big 5-facade is a shield, especially when these countries doesn't often win.

Who knows. What do we know?

Conspiracies everywhere, help!

 

[Jukica]

Can't wait for split jury / televoting results

Anyway, off to sleep, good night

 

[Asiye]

Top 3 isn't a surprise but the rest of the results are really interesting. I can't understand why Lithuania did so well. It was in my bottom 3 of all the 42 songs. I hate it. I don't like Albania as well. It's obvious Rona is a great artist but the song is painful for me.

Iceland There was a problem with microphone? Their voice weren't clear and loud enough. It seemed to me like that.

 

[pokerpupps]

http://www.eurovision.tv/esctv/live/?program=62073

Thank you

 

[Andalublue]

You voting for last years greek entry is like most of us swedes liking and enjoying finlands entry this year since we can understand and take in right away what the text means.

Then why wouldn't the UK always vote for Ireland? Germany always vote for Austria? Holland for Belgium in Vlaams years, France for Switzerland and Belgium in French years? Voting hostory shows that they don't because they think that this is a song contest, not a political rally. What's your excuse?

 

[EurovisionSmile]

I'm curious to know the split results (jury and televoting).

 

[EurovisionSmile]

Then why wouldn't the UK always vote for Ireland? Germany always vote for Austria? Holland for Belgium in Vlaams years, France for Switzerland and Belgium in French years? Voting hostory shows that they don't because they think that this is a song contest, not a political rally. What's your excuse?

You always get Portugal's 12 points, so don't complain

 

[LakZaNokte]

Yeah, I'm totally with you. Predicting and laughing (and of course admiring) at each others taste is the only reason to be here. But how fun is it trying to predict something that is prearranged? Or at least you need to doubt what is fact and what is not? Bookmakers probably have some guy that buys information - why do the odds for some countries rise or fall at that split second when the jury-voting has just ended (the day before)? First bribes, then leakes. Eurovision is not bullet proof, and that is why I can't look at this as serious competing. I just love the music.

personally, I'm more into predicting in a "will end up high/will fail" way. don't like to predict winners.
but I love to speculate about that. and about voting, possible patterns of voting etc. cause in those u can include everything

 

[LakZaNokte]

You always get Portugal's 12 points, so don't complain

I have to laugh 2 2

 

[sistem]

me too!

I'm curious to know the split results (jury and televoting).

 

[Simon87]

So sad that is all over, as many of you said now comes the depression because we are waiting for this for long and it ends so fast

 

[Andalublue]

You're wrong!

I'm not and your post here proves that I'm not.

This year's bosnian entry was generally hated, but it wouldn't be hated if those people understood the lyrics.

Hated by whom? It did very well by qualifying for the finall and getting 55 points. Not bad for a tiny country like Bosnia. I know what the lyrics mean. I can read a translation, right? I liked it better than 18th place, but I would not have liked it better if it had been sung in English or Spanish (my languages).

I hated slovenian entry.

Me too. Hated it, and I know what the lyrics were about.

And ever since I'm watching ESC, my TOP 5 always consists of neighbouring countries like Serbia, Bosina & Herzegovina, Slovenia etc. That's just the way it is!

And that's about politics. It might be cultural politics. It might be nationalist politics, but you are deciding to like something because of political factors that have nothing to do with your aesthetic assessment of the quality of the music you are llstening to.

We're culturally similar, we're connected in many ways, and ESC seems to be one of those things.

I would hope that people could separate the idea of being culturally similar from the assessment of merit. Just because I recognise something as being culturally similar to my background does not mean it is automatically better because of that. If you think it does, and hence vote for it, you are voting politically.

 

[wayneofway]

I think that a few countries might be thinking about whether it's time for either a major rethink of how the ESC is decided or whether to pull out for a few years to see if it can reform itself. Voting, once again, was scandalously political. I've no issue with this year's winner, it's a good song and was pretty brilliantly marketed to ESC viewers and jurists. Good for Sweden and congratulations to Loreen, although she could look and sound a little happier to have won.

No, I think that the problem becomes that certain countries have worked out that they have no possible chance of winning the ESC as it is currently organised, no matter how good their song might be. I'd suggest that France, Spain, UK, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Israel, Georgia, Bulgaria, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary and Malta will never win as none of them belong to any voting bloc that will swing behind a great song and ensure victory. Nor do any of them have large diasporas that can influence third party voting patterns.

Given the cost of participation for a lot of very hard-up broadcasters, I'd be unsurprised if more than a couple of these countries decide to pull out in the near(ish) future.

What about Germany won last year? I dont think the open winners are related with voting blocks. Sweden had an interesting song and it took votes from all countries not just from nordic block. If Spain does the same, it would take a close number of points to Sweden.