Croatia CROATIA 2024 - Baby Lasagna - Rim Tim Tagi Dim

[ESC United Mod Team]

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[Paco Roca]

Melodically and lyrically this song is really clever, but all in all it just is noise from hell to my ears.

I instead see it as a basic composition both in music and lyrics elevated by a good but not even so epic interpretation. The strong points, vote catchers, are the confusing "collage" between Rock*, joke entries and 00s ESC nostalgia + a staging that has already been tested (not exceptional but solid). I'm happy that Croatian fans can enjoy the competition but we are faced with an overvaluation on biblical levels. Surely, without making mistakes in the staging and the vocal side, in a weak year like this, it will enter the Top 10. I'm sure it will get votes both from lovers of the joke genre and from those approaching Rock and from the Bubble. Good support from Eastern Europe will not be missing.

I conclude that, after the ESC, it will be brutally forgotten.

* The Rock in this song is only a facade. A mainstream product, a mask. It may obtain consensus in a competition between emerging artists but in the world of Rock, less subject to rules of courtesy, by TRUE ROCKERS artists and extremist Rock fans it will be looked at as a poor product. I am ugly and bad? No, it's reality. In the past we have witnessed historic groups massacred and losing fans because they winked at the mainstream. And for me, I say it without fear, with Måneskin we got closer to Rock but we always witnessed lambs dressed as wolves. In the golden age of Rock perhaps they would have opened a few concerts and been forgotten, lost in the "Game of Thrones".

 

[Jupiter]

The Rock in this song is only a facade. A mainstream product, a mask. It may obtain consensus in a competition between emerging artists but in the world of Rock, less subject to rules of courtesy, by TRUE ROCKERS artists and extremist Rock fans it will be looked at as a poor product. I am ugly and bad? No, it's reality. In the past we have witnessed historic groups massacred and losing fans because they winked at the mainstream. And for me, I say it without fear, with Måneskin we got closer to Rock but we always witnessed lambs dressed as wolves. In the golden age of Rock perhaps they would have opened a few concerts and been forgotten, lost in the "Game of Thrones".

That "true rockers" argument isn't worth much IMO, it just sounds like the ESC Version of the Standard "not true metal" BS some Death & Black Metal Fans throw at everything else. It's mostly just showing the complainers lack of an open mind and exceptance of how varied music is.

ESC always has more "Radio version" Rock (& metal) compared to whats out in the wild, but I don't see how that makes the music worse or worth less by definition. Something like "ChaChaCha" (metal, not Rock, I know) was a massive hit with many "true" metal fans, to my knowledge even more so than Måneskin (who had a great show, lots of charisma - but to me a way more "we're writing this for the radio folks" song than Käärija or Baby Lasagna).

As an actual Rock & Metal Fan, I love "Rim Tim Tagi Dim", and so do most of the friends I've played the song to. You don't have to like it ofc, but please don't use Rock/Metal Fans like me as an argument for it

 

[ag89]

He is much better than at Dora, but the best thing here is his energy. He really is cool on stage.

 

[musicfan]

The Maneskin song seemed more about their look and presence on stage wowing some people more than anything else. He may have had swagger but the song had the most annoying hook which means it will always be among my least favourite winners ever. As annoying as Toy in its own way.

 

[Paco Roca]

That "true rockers" argument isn't worth much IMO, it just sounds like the ESC Version of the Standard "not true metal" BS some Death & Black Metal Fans throw at everything else. It's mostly just showing the complainers lack of an open mind and exceptance of how varied music is.

ESC always has more "Radio version" Rock (& metal) compared to whats out in the wild, but I don't see how that makes the music worse or worth less by definition. Something like "ChaChaCha" (metal, not Rock, I know) was a massive hit with many "true" metal fans, to my knowledge even more so than Måneskin (who had a great show, lots of charisma - but to me a way more "we're writing this for the radio folks" song than Käärija or Baby Lasagna).

As an actual Rock & Metal Fan, I love "Rim Tim Tagi Dim", and so do most of the friends I've played the song to. You don't have to like it ofc, but please don't use Rock/Metal Fans like me as an argument for it

I opened a much broader discussion. I didn't focus on the R&M fanbase to weave a sterile apology.

“Rim Tim Tagi Dim” is a good entry for a singing competition and will definitely do well. I also wrote it in the previous message. But it cannot be said that he is brutally overrated by the Bubble and the enthusiastic noise of the Croatian fans. If we also look at the ratings, it's out of the Top 10 or at least in the low Top 10.

I don't criticize so much the almost repetitive pattern of fast syllables (which started from "Cha Cha Cha" and passed through "Damdiggida" by KEiiNO" up to "Europapa" and arrived at "Rim Tim Tagi Dim") which, however, denotes a lack of originality, I criticize the lavish praise for a super basic song. To listen Bubble's opinion we are faced with the new iconic Scatman John... If I were an Austrian fan I would be furious. Kaleen's limitations apart from "We Will"Rave" It's better built and has a longer range. The same goes for "Ulveham" which is a small masterpiece that is snubbed by everyone. Italy brings a cumbia mixed with electronics, trap, rap extremely accurate in every element (it's a 3 minute theater show)... So Jupiter, let's summarize the scheme of the Croatian song, the one that precedes "Rim Tim Tagi Dim": quick phrase + oooooh + quick phrase + oooooh and finally a "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"... Basic... By As for the staging, I only appreciate the "charisma" of Baby Lasagna, the rest is a modernization of a staging of the ESC of 2000s.

Have you compared Måneskin with "Cha Cha Cha" and "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"? In my previous message I wasn't kind to Måneskin but do I really have to accept this comparison? Leaving aside Croatia 2024, "Cha Cha Cha" was a triumph of Bubble and a fun (a little PSY) but forgotten song. Måneskin were, together with ABBA, Celine Dion and Duncan Lawrence (even if the latter was a flash in the pan) those who managed to achieve worldwide success. Käärijää are doing great concerts and that's it, Måneskin have won numerous prestigious world awards, they wrote a song for the Elvis film, they managed to enter the American market and they played with Morello from Rage Against Machine... And you know why did he succeed? Because they were close to playing real Rock (!), and that's why we were all surprised. We asked ourselves "What is this music?!". In the sea of mediocrity of Industrial Pop we discovered that in the past the music was extraordinary, competitive, truly iconic and truly revolutionary. Have the Måneskin really been forgotten? I fear this will be the fate of Baby Lasagna. He will do well in the May competition but will be forgotten and will never be accepted by the real world of Rock.

Honestly, if I had to vote for a joke song, instead of opting for shades of Midsommar, I'd rather go for a walk around Europe with "Europapa".

 

[Alcatraz]

Honestly, if I had to vote for a joke song, instead of opting for shades of Midsommar, I'd rather go for a walk around Europe with "Europapa".

I don't know what it has to do with Baby Lasagna, since his song has NOTHING to do with a joke entry.

 

[Paco Roca]

I don't know what it has to do with Baby Lasagna, since his song has NOTHING to do with a joke entry.

Following your reasoning why by all eurofans the direct opponent of "Rim Tim Tagi Dim" is "Europapa"? Why do many say that the fall of one would represent the success of the other?

There is affinity. Baby Lasagna probably doesn't bring a pure joke song but there are elements there, elements that recall the ESC of the 00s

 

[Jupiter]

I opened a much broader discussion. I didn't focus on the R&M fanbase to weave a sterile apology.

“Rim Tim Tagi Dim” is a good entry for a singing competition and will definitely do well. I also wrote it in the previous message. But it cannot be said that he is brutally overrated by the Bubble and the enthusiastic noise of the Croatian fans. If we also look at the ratings, it's out of the Top 10 or at least in the low Top 10.

I don't criticize so much the almost repetitive pattern of fast syllables (which started from "Cha Cha Cha" and passed through "Damdiggida" by KEiiNO" up to "Europapa" and arrived at "Rim Tim Tagi Dim") which, however, denotes a lack of originality, I criticize the lavish praise for a super basic song. To listen Bubble's opinion we are faced with the new iconic Scatman John... If I were an Austrian fan I would be furious. Kaleen's limitations apart from "We Will"Rave" It's better built and has a longer range. The same goes for "Ulveham" which is a small masterpiece that is snubbed by everyone. Italy brings a cumbia mixed with electronics, trap, rap extremely accurate in every element (it's a 3 minute theater show)... So Jupiter, let's summarize the scheme of the Croatian song, the one that precedes "Rim Tim Tagi Dim": quick phrase + oooooh + quick phrase + oooooh and finally a "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"... Basic... By As for the staging, I only appreciate the "charisma" of Baby Lasagna, the rest is a modernization of a staging of the ESC of 2000s.

Have you compared Måneskin with "Cha Cha Cha" and "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"? In my previous message I wasn't kind to Måneskin but do I really have to accept this comparison? Leaving aside Croatia 2024, "Cha Cha Cha" was a triumph of Bubble and a fun (a little PSY) but forgotten song. Måneskin were, together with ABBA, Celine Dion and Duncan Lawrence (even if the latter was a flash in the pan) those who managed to achieve worldwide success. Käärijää are doing great concerts and that's it, Måneskin have won numerous prestigious world awards, they wrote a song for the Elvis film, they managed to enter the American market and they played with Morello from Rage Against Machine... And you know why did he succeed? Because they were close to playing real Rock (!), and that's why we were all surprised. We asked ourselves "What is this music?!". In the sea of mediocrity of Industrial Pop we discovered that in the past the music was extraordinary, competitive, truly iconic and truly revolutionary. Have the Måneskin really been forgotten? I fear this will be the fate of Baby Lasagna. He will do well in the May competition but will be forgotten and will never be accepted by the real world of Rock.

Honestly, if I had to vote for a joke song, instead of opting for shades of Midsommar, I'd rather go for a walk around Europe with "Europapa".

I focused on the "true Rock fan" part bcs that's what I took issue with, not the rest of your Post. And given what you wrote now, I guess we just have vastly different definitions of "true rock" - Måneskin having more mainstream success than Käärijä has absolutely zip to do with being "true rock". If anything, it just makes them true mainstream... and that's, let's say, not exactly a hallmark of being 'true rock'

And whatever on earth your "real world of rock" is - BL has actually successfully worked with other Bands before (like Mono Inc, tho they're moth Goth), I doubt any "real world of rock" would suddenly refuse to accept him.

 

[Alcatraz]

Following your reasoning why by all eurofans the direct opponent of "Rim Tim Tagi Dim" is "Europapa"? Why do many say that the fall of one would represent the success of the other?

There is affinity. Baby Lasagna probably doesn't bring a pure joke song but there are elements there, elements that recall the ESC of the 00s

I have never seen Europapa as a competitor to Baby Lasagna. That song will be a total flop at ESC.

 

[rasmuslights]

I opened a much broader discussion. I didn't focus on the R&M fanbase to weave a sterile apology.

“Rim Tim Tagi Dim” is a good entry for a singing competition and will definitely do well. I also wrote it in the previous message. But it cannot be said that he is brutally overrated by the Bubble and the enthusiastic noise of the Croatian fans. If we also look at the ratings, it's out of the Top 10 or at least in the low Top 10.

I don't criticize so much the almost repetitive pattern of fast syllables (which started from "Cha Cha Cha" and passed through "Damdiggida" by KEiiNO" up to "Europapa" and arrived at "Rim Tim Tagi Dim") which, however, denotes a lack of originality, I criticize the lavish praise for a super basic song. To listen Bubble's opinion we are faced with the new iconic Scatman John... If I were an Austrian fan I would be furious. Kaleen's limitations apart from "We Will"Rave" It's better built and has a longer range. The same goes for "Ulveham" which is a small masterpiece that is snubbed by everyone. Italy brings a cumbia mixed with electronics, trap, rap extremely accurate in every element (it's a 3 minute theater show)... So Jupiter, let's summarize the scheme of the Croatian song, the one that precedes "Rim Tim Tagi Dim": quick phrase + oooooh + quick phrase + oooooh and finally a "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"... Basic... By As for the staging, I only appreciate the "charisma" of Baby Lasagna, the rest is a modernization of a staging of the ESC of 2000s.

Have you compared Måneskin with "Cha Cha Cha" and "Rim Tim Tagi Dim"? In my previous message I wasn't kind to Måneskin but do I really have to accept this comparison? Leaving aside Croatia 2024, "Cha Cha Cha" was a triumph of Bubble and a fun (a little PSY) but forgotten song. Måneskin were, together with ABBA, Celine Dion and Duncan Lawrence (even if the latter was a flash in the pan) those who managed to achieve worldwide success. Käärijää are doing great concerts and that's it, Måneskin have won numerous prestigious world awards, they wrote a song for the Elvis film, they managed to enter the American market and they played with Morello from Rage Against Machine... And you know why did he succeed? Because they were close to playing real Rock (!), and that's why we were all surprised. We asked ourselves "What is this music?!". In the sea of mediocrity of Industrial Pop we discovered that in the past the music was extraordinary, competitive, truly iconic and truly revolutionary. Have the Måneskin really been forgotten? I fear this will be the fate of Baby Lasagna. He will do well in the May competition but will be forgotten and will never be accepted by the real world of Rock.

Honestly, if I had to vote for a joke song, instead of opting for shades of Midsommar, I'd rather go for a walk around Europe with "Europapa".

Honestly preach

 

[rasmuslights]

Honestly, I know I'm a hater but I love being one

In this simulation, more than 80 people voted and Croatia only finished 16th. So how exactly could this win when it's gunning for the televote support and can't even be in the top 15 of more than 80 fans?

x.com

twitter.com

 

[Jupiter]

Honestly, I know I'm a hater but I love being one

In this simulation, more than 80 people voted and Croatia only finished 16th. So how exactly could this win when it's gunning for the televote support and can't even be in the top 15 of more than 80 fans?

x.com

twitter.com

80 random people here compared to the 1000s voting on Eurovisionworld or the Scoreboard App... but ofc, the smaller number makes it waaay more representive, right?
I love this types of simulations/votes, and this one is cool too, but how on earth is this representative? Ukraine ain't even top 10 lol

If you're so sure Croatia can't win, than there's no reason to be nervous anyway. So just chill ;p

 

[rasmuslights]

80 random people here compared to the 1000s voting on Eurovisionworld or the Scoreboard App... but ofc, the smaller number makes it waaay more representive, right?
I love this types of simulations/votes, and this one is cool too, but how on earth is this representative? Ukraine ain't even top 10 lol

If you're so sure Croatia can't win, than there's no reason to be nervous anyway. So just chill ;p

I'm not saying the results will be this way exactly. I also know there's no way for Portugal, Slovenia, Ireland to finish this high.

My point was more about Croatia being talked about as a potential winner.

+ Here we have the names of these 80 people. My Eurovisionscoreboard doesn't have the names, so we're not sure how many of the votes come from Croatians or bots.

 

[rasmuslights]

80 random people here compared to the 1000s voting on Eurovisionworld or the Scoreboard App... but ofc, the smaller number makes it waaay more representive, right?
I love this types of simulations/votes, and this one is cool too, but how on earth is this representative? Ukraine ain't even top 10 lol

If you're so sure Croatia can't win, than there's no reason to be nervous anyway. So just chill ;p

Also the point about Ukraine. Firstly, Ukraine has the diaspora that Croatia doesn't. Secondly, Ukraine has the potential to be in the top 5 of the jury vote, but Croatia doesn't.

This is why I think Ukraine can win and Croatia can't.

Käärijä was landsliding (along with Loreen) in almost every simulation last year.

 

[Jupiter]

I'm not saying the results will be this way exactly. I also know there's no way for Portugal, Slovenia, Ireland to finish this high.

My point was more about Croatia being talked about as a potential winner.

+ Here we have the names of these 80 people. My Eurovisionscoreboard doesn't have the names, so we're not sure how many of the votes come from Croatians or bots.

The poll on Eurovisionworld doesn't allow you to vote for your own country, and Baby Lasagna is still leading there with 14.5K votes ahead of Italy with 12.2K and Switzerland with 11.5K. It's not just Croatians loving the song.

This vote has 80 people... that is, statistically, absolutely meaningless. It approaches saying "song X can't win because I personally don't have it in my top 10". And I remember at least 1 vote last year where Loreen wasn't even top 10. Obviously, that meant nothing.

I have no idea if Croatia cdn win. My money is on Switzerland, followed by Italy. But it's a potential televote winner for sure, and simply for that deserves to be in the discussion.

 

[rasmuslights]

The poll on Eurovisionworld doesn't allow you to vote for your own country, and Baby Lasagna is still leading there with 14.5K votes ahead of Italy with 12.2K and Switzerland with 11.5K. It's not just Croatians loving the song.

This vote has 80 people... that is, statistically, absolutely meaningless. It approaches saying "song X can't win because I personally don't have it in my top 10". And I remember at least 1 vote last year where Loreen wasn't even top 10. Obviously, that meant nothing.

I have no idea if Croatia cdn win. My money is on Switzerland, followed by Italy. But it's a potential televote winner for sure, and simply for that deserves to be in the discussion.

It does have the potential to win the televote, definitely, but not in the way Käärijä won the televote. My point is just that I fail to see this winning when it won't be in the top 5 of the juries and it also won't be landsliding the tele.

 

[Alcatraz]

Slovenac, ne biti ljubomoran.

 

[dizzydjc]

He was so good tonight in Amsterdam, he keeps getting better and better

 

[Edweis]

Yep he was, and I was clearly surprised to see the great reaction from the crowd. Performance was lively, song catchy.

 

[rasmuslights]

Slovenac, ne biti ljubomoran.

love Croatia don't get me wrong