Bringing back the language rule!

[AlekS]

I don't know your taste, it was just a question. I guess if you're happy with the juries voting obviously you do agree with them in one way or another atleast. It doesn't mean that you're biased, because unlike the juries, I don't think voters at home have an agenda, so that's just your taste then and I respect that.

But it's not black or white type of question.

I disagree with televoters and I disagree with the juries... however I respect someone elses' taste. Yes, I would never voted for Eric... but the jury and the televoters did. But not all of them are supposed to vote like me, you know.
They chose Rybak and Satellite. Not in any parallel universe I'd called that biased.

All broadcasters pay their part, our broadcaster gets their money from our citizens, so even if just one dollar out of that is used to pay the fee to EBU, it's still indirectly paid partly by the viewers.

The fee which comes back in a form of the voting revenue and commercial income, the fee which is being indirectly invested in your budget.

yeah, it's too late

 

[94ayd]

I can't believe a person who uses one language in his everyday life would feel FORCED to sing in it. That just doesn't make any sense. If you hate it so much, why do you even live in that country? Why don't people complain about the duration of the song? By giving you a specific length to consider, don't they take away your freedom? IMO, like every contest, the ESC also has rules and if you wanna play by the game, you need to not break them. It was a big mistake this was ever allowed to happen because now people find it harder to let go of this. Televoters wanting English seems kinda ridiculous to me. I've spoken to people and I've heard comments like "why does everything have to be in English, is it the official language of Europe or something?". I did think the EU actually tried to take care of national languages, though. I mean, the institution has 23 official languages and I believe all documents should be produced in them. Also, of course English speakers don't understand Dutch, German, etc. due to the vocabulary been 2/3 of Latin origin. Try learning French if you haven't. You'll see you'll be able to understand most of it in no time. "Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi" is not a ballad?! :? :shock:

 

[Magikk]

My, just let anyone choose the language they want to sing in. Some songs are better sung in English, some in French or Estonian. And some Artists are great when they have their special accent while singing in English. As long as there is still enough diversity and not everybody sings ONLY in English, I don't mind.

 

[A-lister]

My, just let anyone choose the language they want to sing in. Some songs are better sung in English, some in French or Estonian. And some Artists are great when they have their special accent while singing in English. As long as there is still enough diversity and not everybody sings ONLY in English, I don't mind.

Well problem is, and I guess reason for this thread, that we currently try this and it has lead to a very NON-diverse ESC, so if you want diversity, the current rules are (and now with the juries onboard it has gotten even worse) not helping diversity at all.

For each year we have a record of English only and with this progress there will 100% English in just a couple of years if nothing is done.

 

[Stargazer]

I would love to see the language rule back. It would be interesting to see what would happen. Now, during the '90s the majority of songs that won were performed in English, but there was practically no televoting back then. I'm not so sure we'd get the same results now.

At least try it for a few years and see what would happen. I for one miss the diversity. You lose a little of each country's identity and culture when you only get songs in English.

 

[r3gg13]

At least try it for a few years and see what would happen. I for one miss the diversity. You lose a little of each country's identity and culture when you only get songs in English.

100% agree

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

We have tried it for a few years though - it's something that has been done before. For me, freedom of choice is more important than linguistic diversity... and as I have said in the past, a song can still accurately reflect another country's culture if it is in English.

 

[CC92]

We have tried it for a few years though - it's something that has been done before. For me, freedom of choice is more important than linguistic diversity... and as I have said in the past, a song can still accurately reflect another country's culture if it is in English.

But it is not really a freedom of choice. Several broadcasters demand composers to write in English or at least disadvantage non-English choices within their pre-selection. Hardly it is a coincidence that in the very most countries the percentage of artists singing not in one of the local languages is about less than five per cent still almost everyone in ESC does so.
Indeed performing in your native tongue is not the only point with that you can come up with your culture but it remains a very important one. Especially as for the other opportunities, we have the 'jury' to hold them off.

 

[CC92]

and yet almost everyone...

Strangely, I again cannot edit my posts.

 

[Jukica]

I prefer freedom as well I can't imagine, for example, all Danish entries in Danish (like New Tomorrow or In The Moment Like This) :/

 

[CC92]

I prefer freedom as well I can't imagine, for example, all Danish entries in Danish (like New Tomorrow or In The Moment Like This) :/

Hm... why not give it a try? Somehow I think the Danish language would suit A new tomorrow very well. At least it would sound a little more interesting then. And we were not to stand those lyrics. Another solution or positive effect, however, would be not to play it save all the time with radiofriendly pop tunes in but to dare something more innovative. That is to be adressed to Denmark especially.
Moreover, as I said before, the current situation certainly is NO freedom. Probably it was for A friend in London but most musicians prefer to write and sing in their native tongues. Just go away from the Nordics.

 

[Stargazer]

We have tried it for a few years though - it's something that has been done before. For me, freedom of choice is more important than linguistic diversity... and as I have said in the past, a song can still accurately reflect another country's culture if it is in English.

We haven't tried it with televoting. There was a whole different story when there were juries only.

And no, in my opinion English cannot reflect another country's culture (unless English is the native language of course). Especially when it comes to ethnic entries. They lose all the charm, mystery and feeling when performed in English. Serbian entries like "Lane Moje", "Molitva" and "Oro" for example would have fallen flat and not been nearly as captivating and interesting in English. I'm not saying English is a bad language, it's a great language, but only where it's "supposed" to be used. It suited the Irish entry of 1996 (The Voice) because English is spoken in Ireland anyway, even if it would have been lovely in Irish Gaelic.

And like others have been saying, it's not really freedom because so many broadcasters now demand songs in English.

 

[A-lister]

We have tried it for a few years though - it's something that has been done before. For me, freedom of choice is more important than linguistic diversity... and as I have said in the past, a song can still accurately reflect another country's culture if it is in English.

How can English reflect cultures in countries where even a majority of the population may not even understand BASIC English? That's just a weird statement.

And it's not really a freedom when countries feel more or less forced to send entries in English to have a chance in Eurovision. It's what I would call "forced freedom".

I'm sure many would chose entries in native language if there was a system backing up such decisions.

I am FOR freedom of choice, but I am also for cultural diversity and Eurovision SHOULD be about celebrating European diversity, not the opposite.

Again; English and Anglo-culture is NOT reflecting ALL Europe. To say this is to downgrade everything else there is with Europe.

 

[Yamarus]

We haven't tried it with televoting. There was a whole different story when there were juries only

I remain convinced that a Contest with 100% televoting and language rule would be extremely interesting.

 

[CC92]

I remain convinced that a Contest with 100% televoting and language rule would be extremely interesting.

 

[A-lister]

I remain convinced that a Contest with 100% televoting and language rule would be extremely interesting.

Second that! And it hasn't been tried as someone pointed out.

 

[Mickey]

a song can still accurately reflect another country's culture if it is in English.

Some examples of this off the top of my head are Jan Jan and Wild Dances. Both were half in English and those halves were still reflective of the culture they represented.

I wish more songs were bi-lingual. I wouldn't advocate a full language rule, because I like being able to understand what a song is about. I'm sure artists like using English too, as they feel such songs will travel well and sell in many countries. However, I wouldn't mind a rule that meant a certain percentage of songs are in native language.

 

[Yamarus]

I wish more songs were bi-lingual. I wouldn't advocate a full language rule, because I like being able to understand what a song is about. I'm sure artists like using English too, as they feel such songs will travel well and sell in many countries. However, I wouldn't mind a rule that meant a certain percentage of songs are in native language.

Even though I'd like a full language rule, I think it's unrealistic and I also believe that a new language rule should be that 50% of the song, at least, has to be in a national language. This wouldn't really penalise anyone and would bring back linguistic diversity to the contest. IMO, Kati Wolf's song wouldn't have scored higher *or* lower had it been performed entirely in English, and it didn't prevent Ruslana from winning by a fair margin. And would "My Number One" have been any less catchy if parts of the song had been in Greek? I doubt it.

I also think that there should be English subtitles to non-English songs (or subtitles in the local language, if the national broadcaster has the means to translate them).

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

We haven't tried it with televoting. There was a whole different story when there were juries only.

We have 50% Juries and in fairness, such a language rule would only be in-keeping with the idea of 100% Juries. Televoting is supposed to be about giving people the choice to select their favourites, it wouldnt make much sense to me if you removed the right for a country to choose which language it should sing in.

And no, in my opinion English cannot reflect another country's culture (unless English is the native language of course). Especially when it comes to ethnic entries. They lose all the charm, mystery and feeling when performed in English. Serbian entries like "Lane Moje", "Molitva" and "Oro" for example would have fallen flat and not been nearly as captivating and interesting in English. I'm not saying English is a bad language, it's a great language, but only where it's "supposed" to be used. It suited the Irish entry of 1996 (The Voice) because English is spoken in Ireland anyway, even if it would have been lovely in Irish Gaelic.

Well I guess this is a difference in opinion then. For me, you can still have a traditional Turkish song for instance, sung in English. Or a traditional Russian song sung in English. There's no difference - language doesnt automatically add/remove a country's culture - a culture is based on the country, languages are international. You cant claim for instance that the UK and US have the same cultures (even though they're similar), and yet we have the same language.

And like others have been saying, it's not really freedom because so many broadcasters now demand songs in English.

That is a broadcaster rule - countries are totally entitled to do that, just as they would be entitled to say, for instance, that only nationals of their country should be allowed to participate. To go over that with an EBU-wide rule would be not only hypocritical but also would remove the rights of countries to select their own song. So long as their are general principles, eg no animals on stage, 6 people on stage, no swearing, etc, the EBU shouldnt and doesnt have the right to interfere in individual entries.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

How can English reflect cultures in countries where even a majority of the population may not even understand BASIC English? That's just a weird statement.

I say the same as above, and in the majority of European countries, English is understood by a majority, if not a very large minority. Yes there are probably exceptions to this, but in general that is the case in European countries - even in say France, which places an extremely high value on its own language and has a very strong national identity itself - much stronger than the English-speaking nations incidentally.

And it's not really a freedom when countries feel more or less forced to send entries in English to have a chance in Eurovision. It's what I would call "forced freedom".

So you say that English is forced upon countries? Not really considering many countries choose to send an entry in another language and also it doesnt make sense if you're calling for the replacement of a 'de facto' rule with a 'de jure' one.

I am FOR freedom of choice, but I am also for cultural diversity and Eurovision SHOULD be about celebrating European diversity, not the opposite.

Well then what do you propose should happen? A language rule is against freedom of choice but no language rule leads to 'everything' being in English. Seeing as many countries still sing in their native languages, I strongly believe that no language rule is better .

Again; English and Anglo-culture is NOT reflecting ALL Europe. To say this is to downgrade everything else there is with Europe.

If the United Kingdom sent an entry in French do you think that it would be representing French culture? Of course not. It would still be representing British culture, just in another language. By having an entry in English does not impose a culture on anybody and in fact it is the countries themselves who are choosing to sing in English, nobody's forcing them - not the English-speaking contestants and not the EBU!