Austria AUSTRIA 2014 - Conchita Wurst - Rise like a Phoenix

[Matt]

I think it needs to be kept in mind here, that Conchita isn't a woman with a beard. He's a man (who doesn't identify as a woman), who thinks he'll get more attention if he wears a dress and grows a beard.

Is that a fact though or just an assumption?

 

[DanielLuis]

Is that a fact though or just an assumption?

It's an assumption, but to be honest I think it's a true one.

 

[QwaarJet]

I think it needs to be kept in mind here, that Conchita isn't a woman with a beard. He's a man (who doesn't identify as a woman), who thinks he'll get more attention if he wears a dress and grows a beard.

Spot on.

That article was so over the top that it was almost funny. I find it hilarious that despite being trans I'm being painted as the bigot in this case along with many others. I guess now I know what it feels like.

 

[MrGerbear]

It's an assumption, but to be honest I think it's a true one.

See, nobody should be making assumptions on someone's gender identity based solely on appearance.

Qwaar, it's really confusing how, as a trans person, you think these people's comments are okay. How is it okay to call someone a freak? Or disgusting?

It's really telling that when I speak out about these issues, I'm "overreacting", but these people with startlingly intolerant opinions should be accepted. If you don't see anything wrong with that, you're not looking clearly enough.

What exactly is wrong with female-presenting people having beards in the first place? What's wrong with wanting attention, especially when that attention is used to promote tolerance and acceptance for the LGBT and non-conforming community?

 

[pinkchiffon]

But all the criticism circles around to "this person looks weird and shouldn't be doing that because nobody does that because it looks weird and therefore nobody should do that." That's what most of you sound like. There aren't any other reasons against unconventional gender expression. Keep asking yourself why it's offensive until the answer is that you don't know, and then get over it. Looking for attention? The word you're looking for is publicity, and nothing would get anywhere if nobody ever did anything controversial in entertainment. And everyone who's worried on behalf of all the viewers who might be scandalized by this incident can drop it if they're as okay with it themselves as they say they are. Conchita is (or is performed by, rather) a person with a sense of humor and self-awareness and isn't going to reconsider because of a pile of soggy, lukewarm concern.

Oh yeah, and here's a pagely reminder that we haven't heard the damn song yet, in case anyone needs one.

 

[Rodrigo]

I can't take him/her seriously. I don't think that the beard will help him/her to get votes, actually the opposite.

 

[Matt]

But all the criticism circles around to "this person looks weird and shouldn't be doing that because nobody does that because it looks weird and therefore nobody should do that." That's what most of you sound like. There aren't any other reasons against unconventional gender expression. Keep asking yourself why it's offensive until the answer is that you don't know, and then get over it. Looking for attention? The word you're looking for is publicity, and nothing would get anywhere if nobody ever did anything controversial in entertainment. And everyone who's worried on behalf of all the viewers who might be scandalized by this incident can drop it if they're as okay with it themselves as they say they are. Conchita is (or is performed by, rather) a person with a sense of humor and self-awareness and isn't going to reconsider because of a pile of soggy, lukewarm concern.

Oh yeah, and here's a pagely reminder that we haven't heard the damn song yet, in case anyone needs one.

I believe that basically sums but my position. The major problem here appears to be the fact that Conchita does not fit into a gender drawer created by society, therefore she is deemed "disgusting".

 

[Mickey]

I believe that basically sums but my position. The major problem here appears to be the fact that Conchita does not fit into a gender drawer created by society, therefore she is deemed "disgusting".

And I think Tom Neuwirth is well aware of that. That's why he does it. If I was to be kind, I'd say he was intentionally putting himself forward as a test case for gender identity and social inclusion.

If I was unkind, I'd say he was a desperate attention-seeker looking to shock his audience.

 

[Matt]

And I think Tom Neuwirth is well aware of that. That's why he does it. If I was to be kind, I'd say he was intentionally putting himself forward as a test case for gender identity and social inclusion.

If I was unkind, I'd say he was a desperate attention-seeker looking to shock his audience.

That's an assumption though not based on any facts, maybe he is doing that and whether it is trying to break the gender role barrier or looking for attention.
And maybe it is really who she is as a person, we wouldn't know and can only play the guess game.

But regardless of the outcome, name calling and hatred because you don't agree with it is rather unfair and I don't think any of us would appreciate it if it was directed towards us individually.

 

[Matt]

I hope we can just get past the physical appearance and focus on Eurovision. What I'm really excited about is that Conchita is a true Eurovision fan which is always something I can appreciate

Interview: Conchita Wurst (Austria 2014) speaks to ESC+Plus!

 

[A-lister]

Do people really use the word "she" for HIM??? And really this political correctness obsession... it's obvious this is for attention because he doesn't have much other talents and the music thus far has been rather bad, someone being serious in their "trans"-identity wouldn't want to be regarded as the "bearded lady", if anything that is more like making a joke out of it all... so all you who preach about tolerance in here should maybe re-think once or twice what you define as tolerance, because praising someone who exploits gender-identity as a stage act is maybe not really showing tolerance to the ones who actually goes through the "issues" of gender-identification?

And it's funny that people calling him out for doing this for the attention are being labeled as "bigots" and what else, but it's not as if the rest of you know that he is NOT doing this for attention right? Saying he is genuine with this is just as much speculation as saying he isn't, so no point in acting moral defenders because in the end of the day everyone in here are simply making assumptions based on their interpretations of this "act", no one knows for certain what the deal is with all this.

Anyways, in the end of the day it's the song that counts. We can argue back and forth about what we think of him as an act and I think people should be allowed to think what they want tbh.

 

[pinkchiffon]

What point are you guys even trying to make by repeating that Conchita's appearance is "for attention"? You sound ridiculous holding that up as some huge criticism when you're literally talking about a professional performer. And it's attention that can do something useful - I've already seen several of my friends react with disgust, then stop and wonder why that combination of features made them uncomfortable, and admit that there weren't any reasons other than social norms and that they should think harder about that.

I've also seen plenty of people react with disgust and refuse to examine it, which I also find useful as it lets me know what kind of people I probably don't want to associate with.

 

[A-lister]

What point are you guys even trying to make by repeating that Conchita's appearance is "for attention"? You sound ridiculous holding that up as some huge criticism when you're literally talking about a professional performer. And it's attention that can do something useful - I've already seen several of my friends react with disgust, then stop and wonder why that combination of features made them uncomfortable, and admit that there weren't any reasons other than social norms and that they should think harder about that.

I've also seen plenty of people react with disgust and refuse to examine it, which I also find useful as it lets me know what kind of people I probably don't want to associate with.

Is it really that hard to accept that people will have different opinions on this? If you think he is all genuine about it and it's just about gender-identification, fine, but accept that not all come to the same conclusion you do. If that makes you unwilling to "associate" with us, then perhaps a forum which is open for different opinions and interpretations is not the right place? Just a thought...

 

[pinkchiffon]

That's not what I said. I don't know anything about and am not making assumptions about Conchita's identity in real life, I'm still only talking about the public persona that will appear at Eurovision. My point in that post was that "doing this for ATTENTION" does not come off as an effective criticism when you're talking about an entertainer whose career is literally driven by publicity, and it especially doesn't help your argument when it's publicity that is being used to spread positivity.

 

[QwaarJet]

I believe that basically sums but my position. The major problem here appears to be the fact that Conchita does not fit into a gender drawer created by society, therefore she is deemed "disgusting".

I can't speak for anyone else, but that isn't my problem. Several of my trans friends don't really fit into any gender bracket, and I'm cool with that. I'm not exactly female or male either. But as A-Lister said, if Tom is trying to use the publicity to promote tolerance among the LGBT community and the general public, then it isn't exactly working is it? Because the fact that he has created this Conchita character is an affront to those LGBT people fighting for acceptance when people like him are waltzing around using a trans character as shock value.

And as much as I would not like it to be true, when it comes to performing in front of Europe, do you think people are going to say "What a lovely song that is!"? A lot of them (whether we like it or not) are going to say "what the hell is that with the beard?" They probably won't even the notice the song. Tom Neuwirth will rise and fall by his act, not the quality of the song, at least with the televoting. Harder to tell with the juries.

I may well be proven wrong in this, but since we don't know yet, all we can do is speculate. And considering the reaction of the Eurovision community (who are generally accepting of these things), I genuinely fear the reaction of the general public.

 

[dragvision]

recenti pic of Conchito Wurstel

 

[MrGerbear]

That's not Conchita Wurst, that's Pavel Petel.

 

[DanielLuis]

Do people really use the word "she" for HIM??? And really this political correctness obsession... it's obvious this is for attention because he doesn't have much other talents and the music thus far has been rather bad, someone being serious in their "trans"-identity wouldn't want to be regarded as the "bearded lady", if anything that is more like making a joke out of it all... so all you who preach about tolerance in here should maybe re-think once or twice what you define as tolerance, because praising someone who exploits gender-identity as a stage act is maybe not really showing tolerance to the ones who actually goes through the "issues" of gender-identification?

And it's funny that people calling him out for doing this for the attention are being labeled as "bigots" and what else, but it's not as if the rest of you know that he is NOT doing this for attention right? Saying he is genuine with this is just as much speculation as saying he isn't, so no point in acting moral defenders because in the end of the day everyone in here are simply making assumptions based on their interpretations of this "act", no one knows for certain what the deal is with all this.

Anyways, in the end of the day it's the song that counts. We can argue back and forth about what we think of him as an act and I think people should be allowed to think what they want tbh.

100 % agreed. Great post

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post first This is the correct one.

 

[Yamarus]

Is it really that hard to accept that people will have different opinions on this? If you think he is all genuine about it and it's just about gender-identification, fine, but accept that not all come to the same conclusion you do. If that makes you unwilling to "associate" with us, then perhaps a forum which is open for different opinions and interpretations is not the right place? Just a thought...

I've learned that when it comes to trans and ambiguous sexual identities, the best thing is to ask the person what pronoun s-he prefers. If Conchita Wurst wants to be called "she" or "he", that's entirely up to her/him.

In the meantime, you call Conchita "him", I would call Conchita "her" and we would both be right. Stop trying to attack everyone on this.

 

[A-lister]

I've learned that when it comes to trans and ambiguous sexual identities, the best thing is to ask the person what pronoun s-he prefers. If Conchita Wurst wants to be called "she" or "he", that's entirely up to her/him.

In the meantime, you call Conchita "him", I would call Conchita "her" and we would both be right. Stop trying to attack everyone on this.

But I'm not attacking anyone, I just react to posts that call people "bigots" for NOT calling him a "her" amongst other things... my post was mostly directed to those comments.

Just as you say, no one here knows this person on a personal level, so no one here is right or wrong, we just interpret this "act" differently.