Albania ALBANIA 2014 - Hersi Matmuja - One Night's Anger

[QwaarJet]

Actually, there's been cases in the past where fan pressure DID have an impact on issues like these (Magdalena Tul and the Polish entry back in 2011 comes to mind. They decided to send a new version in English, BUT re-changed their mind because of the fans... and they even admitted that!), so I wouldn't underestimate the power of fans. Sure, chances are narrow, but they are not non-existing.

I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with the Moldovan entry last year, and if I recall things correctly there were talks last year to translate the Icelandic entry for ESC, but fans lobbied for the entry to stay in Icelandic and it did. It could all be coincidences, but I do think that some acts and their teams do look into forums and discussions like these and some do pay attention to reactions like these. I mean you hardly win over any new fans by totally overlooking what the existing ones are saying... Hardcore ESC fans may not be the majority of voters in ESC, but they are good at creating a pre-hype and word-of-mouth (good or bad) prior the contest, which can later on be helpful (or the opposite) for the entries actually.

Magdalena is hardly the best example of listening to the fans, since going in Polish didn't exactly help her, finishing last in the semi and all. Sometimes listening to the fans can be a bad thing. What they want isn't always best for the song's chances. Poland made a mistake listening to the fans, and while I didn't like Moldova going native, I can't argue with the results. The outcome of fanwanking is mixed.

I'm just saying that sometimes the fans want something, and that something might not be a good thing for the delegation to listen to.

But since we're giving messages to the delegation about what we want, I'll say :
"Your song sucks, deal with that first before bothering about which language you'll sing in!"

 

[A-lister]

Magdalena is hardly the best example of listening to the fans, since going in Polish didn't exactly help her, finishing last in the semi and all. Sometimes listening to the fans can be a bad thing. What they want isn't always best for the song's chances. Poland made a mistake listening to the fans, and while I didn't like Moldova going native, I can't argue with the results. The outcome of fanwanking is mixed.

I'm just saying that sometimes the fans want something, and that something might not be a good thing for the delegation to listen to.

But since we're giving messages to the delegation about what we want, I'll say :
"Your song sucks, deal with that first before bothering about which language you'll sing in!"

I don't think Magda failed on the language, the English version wasn't even the same melody anymore (it was more generic), she failed on her starting number - technical and sound difficulties - and a performance that just ended up messy. English would have not saved that situation.

 

[Terence]

First listen to the song (yeah, late, no interest etc.) and I'm awarding it a 7 so far. With a better arrangement, this can be up there with my favourites.

 

[ParadiseES]

But Magdalena actually relased the English version and the lyrics were terrible. That was the reason of the pressure. Not the language itself

 

[A-lister]

But Magdalena actually relased the English version and the lyrics were terrible. That was the reason of the pressure. Not the language itself

I have to disagree, it wasn't just about the lyrics, they even changed the melody for the English version.

Maybe people genuinely thought it was refreshing with a Pop song in Polish for a change and simply didn't want English for that reason alone? Atleast I was one of those that wanted it to be kept in Polish because it was simply better and fresh that way

 

[ParadiseES]

I have to disagree, it wasn't just about the lyrics, they even changed the melody for the English version.

Maybe people genuinely thought it was refreshing with a Pop song in Polish for a change and simply didn't want English for that reason alone? Atleast I was one of those that wanted it to be kept in Polish because it was simply better and fresh that way

Whatever. It was because of that specific English version. Otherwise the pressure would've come before and no after that version was released

 

[A-lister]

Whatever. It was because of that specific English version. Otherwise the pressure would've come before and no after that version was released

How can pressure come if people don't think it changed language at all?

 

[ParadiseES]

How can pressure come if people don't think it changed language at all?

Well, you're doing sort of it here even if you don't know if this girl is gonna change the language and don't even know the other version

 

[A-lister]

Well, you're doing sort of it here even if you don't know if this girl is gonna change the language and don't even know the other version

But that's me...

And of course she shouldn't translate and sell-out, I couldn't care less how it would sound like in English... to me it's a desperate selling-out thing

 

[pinkchiffon]

I understand why it's appealing to Hersi, though, and it isn't just strategic. (The broadcaster may have those motives, if they support changing it, but we don't know that yet.) She probably thinks it's fun and exciting to sing in English, because that's not what she usually performs and the whole of Europe isn't her usual audience.

My problem with switching to English is that nobody else will speak Albanian on an international program with hundreds of millions of viewers all year. If she did, people who have no idea what that language sounds like would think about it for three minutes, and it would make Albanians living in other countries happy to hear it in such a huge spotlight. Some of you will probably read this and wonder why one language is important, but it's important to everyone who considers that their language or knows someone who does, isn't it?

What I was saying about Moldova last year is that I don't think they ever intended to stay in English. My theory is that they knew the English version would seal their chances of winning the NF (maybe they needed to please a jury that was looking for supposed "international" appeal), but they had every intention of insisting on Romanian as soon as the ticket was in their hands. Underhanded? Probably, but I think it was a bold and admirable move to smuggle their language into Eurovision, if that is what happened

 

[QwaarJet]

But that's me...

And of course she shouldn't translate and sell-out, I couldn't care less how it would sound like in English... to me it's a desperate selling-out thing

Oh, so you finally admit that the song could sound much better in English and you wouldn't care? I'm sorry, but that is wrong on so many levels. If a song works better in English, then you should admit that and move on, regardless of your views on "selling-out".

What I was saying about Moldova last year is that I don't think they ever intended to stay in English. My theory is that they knew the English version would seal their chances of winning the NF (maybe they needed to please a jury that was looking for supposed "international" appeal), but they had every intention of insisting on Romanian as soon as the ticket was in their hands. Underhanded? Probably, but I think it was a bold and admirable move to smuggle their language into Eurovision, if that is what happened

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of double standards. If that was done in reverse(Romanian for NF, then English to Eurovision) then several people would be apoplectic about that situation and call them every name under the sun, but because they changed it from English to Romanian, It's "admirable"? No, sorry. Doesn't work like that. You can't have different rules for English and non-English. It stinks of hypocrisy. Either switching languages after winning the ticket is fine, or it is morally questionable. personally, I have no problem with it, even when I believe it to be the wrong decision.

 

[pinkchiffon]

There is a power imbalance that is skewed toward English and I support challenging it more than I support going along with it. It isn't the same situation because making the switch one way has different motives and implications than doing it in reverse.

 

[QwaarJet]

There is a power imbalance that is skewed toward English and I support challenging it more than I support going along with it. It isn't the same situation because making the switch one way has different motives and implications than doing it in reverse.

I know what you're saying, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[A-lister]

There is a power imbalance that is skewed toward English and I support challenging it more than I support going along with it. It isn't the same situation because making the switch one way has different motives and implications than doing it in reverse.

Thank you, QwaarJet can call it hypocrisy, but the whole point is totally different.

Plus, I clearly don't see the hypocrisy? The Romanian version was the original version, they jut (for some tactical odd reason) decided to go with an English one in the national final aswell...

Oh, so you finally admit that the song could sound much better in English and you wouldn't care? I'm sorry, but that is wrong on so many levels. If a song works better in English, then you should admit that and move on, regardless of your views on "selling-out".

I'm not moving on, and secondly you some time say languages don't matter (as an argument pro-translations to English), but still talk about how it could "work better in English", to me that's contradicting. If it really doesn't matter for you, then why are you insisting on this turning into English? Why not just support it with its current language then? And how come it's always that language doesn't matter one way around, but when if there could be a translation to English it suddenly matters?

 

[QwaarJet]

Thank you, QwaarJet can call it hypocrisy, but the whole point is totally different.

Plus, I clearly don't see the hypocrisy? The Romanian version was the original version, they jut (for some tactical odd reason) decided to go with an English one in the national final aswell...



I'm not moving on, and secondly you some time say languages don't matter (as an argument pro-translations to English), but still talk about how it could "work better in English", to me that's contradicting. If it really doesn't matter for you, then why are you insisting on this turning into English? Why not just support it with its current language then? And how come it's always that language doesn't matter one way around, but when if there could be a translation to English it suddenly matters?

We've done this dance many times before, and we seem to have trouble understanding each other. I'm saying the languages don't really matter to me, especially with a "meh" song like this. I've said before I believe languages have an impact, but a small one. It's not a dealbreaker for me. My point is that even if I disagree with a song changing languages, as long as the music is pretty much the same, then I'll roll with it. It doesn't stop the fact that some songs work better in English and some work better in native languages. I would just like you to acknowledge that some types of songs sound better in English, and that translating to English doesn't have to be (unlike what pink said) for nefarious reasons, and could just be because they think English suits it better.

As for the hypocrisy, the bottom line about Moldova is that they selected a song in English. What happened before the Moldovan selection began in earnest is irrelevant. They submitted an English song, and after winning they pulled a fast one and changed it to Romanian. I don't like that type of stunt. If you pick a song in one language for the NF, It should stay in that language, regardless of whether It is in English or another language. That is where your hypocrisy comes in, as you think It's OK to be underhanded, but only in one direction. If Herciana changes her song to English and it suits English very well, then I will acknowledge that, but also I won't be happy with a post-NF language change, as I think that is dirty tactics.

It goes both ways.

 

[i anixi]

 

[QwaarJet]

That is possibly the gayest image of all time.

 

[i anixi]

Those superlatives are always dangerous

 

[A-lister]

We've done this dance many times before, and we seem to have trouble understanding each other. I'm saying the languages don't really matter to me, especially with a "meh" song like this. I've said before I believe languages have an impact, but a small one. It's not a dealbreaker for me. My point is that even if I disagree with a song changing languages, as long as the music is pretty much the same, then I'll roll with it. It doesn't stop the fact that some songs work better in English and some work better in native languages. I would just like you to acknowledge that some types of songs sound better in English, and that translating to English doesn't have to be (unlike what pink said) for nefarious reasons, and could just be because they think English suits it better.

Well, there's an obvious difference between how we interpret (and want from) the ESC concept, and what we generally see in languages in music. I think I value languages and see them as part of the music, wheres you see them more as instrumental with no much impact on the music, correct?

Also, this is the thing I don't get, you argue that languages hardly matter, then you continue going on about how songs can either fit (or not) being translated to English, I guess this is why I have a hard time "understanding" your point because I find a contradiction in that reasoning alone. I mean if they wouldn't matter, then what's the issue with people not wanting a translation then and how could an entry fit with a certain language, if languages aren't of much importance in the first place?

As for the hypocrisy, the bottom line about Moldova is that they selected a song in English. What happened before the Moldovan selection began in earnest is irrelevant. They submitted an English song, and after winning they pulled a fast one and changed it to Romanian. I don't like that type of stunt. If you pick a song in one language for the NF, It should stay in that language, regardless of whether It is in English or another language. That is where your hypocrisy comes in, as you think It's OK to be underhanded, but only in one direction. If Herciana changes her song to English and it suits English very well, then I will acknowledge that, but also I won't be happy with a post-NF language change, as I think that is dirty tactics.

It goes both ways.

But in the case of Moldova it was desperately translated from an original Romanian version for the contest, it wasn't as if the English version was the original.

Also, again this is where we differ on how we view Eurovision and value linguistic diversity differently in music (and in the contest in general), and I have to agree with pinkchiffon on this one with the difference being the power imbalance that is skewed toward English in ESC. It's only hypocrisy if you view languages as simply instrumental without much deeper meaning in music or ESC. Though, I do get your "point", but our views on the whole issue differs fundamentally.

 

[i anixi]

Come now, even Rona's getting upset.