Running order for 2013

[Tjipptjopp]

BTW, eurovision can't really be seen as a very serious competition, can it? Because every country is giving points to it's opponents. If it would be a serious competition there should instead maybe be a jury or televoters from other countries than the ones participating. Otherwise everyone should just give points the the worst songs to maximize their own chance of winning. Therefore eurovision song contest is not a serious competition, and more just a fun entertainment show. So maybe its for the best that the producers get to decide the best starting order. That being said, it would be quite boring if the biggest favourite always would perform last and win every time.

 

[LalehForWD]

Haha

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Good point, Bosnia voting for Serbia, Azerbaijan voting for Turkey, Denmark voting for Sweden, etc, year after year creates much more sh*t for the contest than a producer-determined running order .

 

[Mickey]

Good point, Bosnia voting for Serbia, Azerbaijan voting for Turkey, Denmark voting for Sweden, etc, year after year creates much more sh*t for the contest than a producer-determined running order .

They were making a more theoretical point about bias based on competitors voting and how it is possible to help your own chance by not voting for the favourite. While it is possible to vote for bad entries on purpose to maximise your own chance, I don't think it happens in practice.

I won't get into a debate about political voting here, but the outside perception about the contest (one that I disagree with) is that eurovision is all fixed and all about friends voting for each other. Do you think it's a good idea to add to that with an incontrovertible proof that some countries are favoured over others? I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the first five in the 2013 final withdraws in 2014.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

They were making a more theoretical point about bias based on competitors voting and how it is possible to help your own chance by not voting for the favourite. While it is possible to vote for bad entries on purpose to maximise your own chance, I don't think it happens in practice.

I won't get into a debate about political voting here, but the outside perception about the contest (one that I disagree with) is that eurovision is all fixed and all about friends voting for each other. Do you think it's a good idea to add to that with an incontrovertible proof that some countries are favoured over others? I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the first five in the 2013 final withdraws in 2014.

My point is that nobody from the "little" countries seems to be bothered about them all voting for each other, voting for their friends and political allies, so why should I be bothered about my country being possibly (though unlikely) favoured in the running order?? The Big 5 countries need something to rebalance the unfairness that currently exists.

In addition, your latter point about the perception of Eurovision is invalid because only the fans will now about how the running order is selected .

 

[QwaarJet]

My point is that nobody from the "little" countries seems to be bothered about them all voting for each other, voting for their friends and political allies, so why should I be bothered about my country being possibly (though unlikely) favoured in the running order?? The Big 5 countries need something to rebalance the unfairness that currently exists.

In addition, your latter point about the perception of Eurovision is invalid because only the fans will now about how the running order is selected .

I still think this whole "political voting" myth is overstated, but you can keep believing in the conspiracy theories if it makes you feel better about the UK's lack of recent success.

As for only the fans knowing about the way the order is decided, I am absolutely certain that Graham Norton will mention the change during the broadcast, as will most commentators. And if UK finish low again, they'll have something new to go after. If anything, the conspiracy theories will become more prominent and Eurovision's reputation will sink further. As they say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Countering perceived corruption with more corruption is a bad thing. I only want the best for Eurovision, and I see this as a potential dent to it.

 

[A-lister]

Good point, Bosnia voting for Serbia, Azerbaijan voting for Turkey, Denmark voting for Sweden, etc, year after year creates much more sh*t for the contest than a producer-determined running order .

But that's why we now have bloc-pots to minimize that sort of outcome somewhat atleast, and I guess the juries aswell (however they didn't really prevent much of it, although some western countries should stop blaming their own bad entries and outcomes on this aswell).

But to make the contest MORE corrupted is better? Why would adding just another problem to the legitimacy of the contest make it better? I don't get it

 

[Mickey]

In addition, your latter point about the perception of Eurovision is invalid because only the fans will now about how the running order is selected .

I bet the Daily Mail would notice if we were given a bad draw by the producers (which is why we won't be).

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

And why are you against us having a good position? Typical modern British thinking that we dont deserve to be treated well that is...

 

[LalehForWD]

And why are you against us having a good position? Typical modern British thinking that we dont deserve to be treated well that is...

To be honest, I think you can count on a "good" position as long as you keep the current quality of your contributions. But prepare yourself for a "bad" position if you go for the win!

 

[anto475]

And why are you against us having a good position? Typical modern British thinking that we dont deserve to be treated well that is...

I really never know if I'm reading the Daily Mail on the Sunday after the Eurovision or not when it comes to posts like these. Just send good songs, that's all that the UK can do really. Hump was ok, but obviously something that would look terrible and oldfashioned when put next to Loreen. Blue were ok and they did ok, let's not talk about Josh Dubovie, Jade Ewen was fantastic, and Andy Abraham was a mystery, I'm guessing it's because he was in 2nd position to perform. Your country already has the unfair advantage of being stuck in the final, stop giving out. I don't see what Mickey is saying against the UK having a good position, and it's plain to see that bloc voting isn't half the force it was a few years ago. Sweden won this year with 12 points from all across Europe, and last I checked, the Swedish diaspora wasn't that big. Same with the Germans, and same with the Norwegians. Block voting isn't negatively affecting UK results, the BBC is.

 

[NeonProject]

^
I agree. I think the BBC really needs to take a lot more responsibility and I think the British Media needs to really think harder about why we're actually failing at ESC. They claim that our reputation is being dragged across the floor by 'political voting' but they don't seem capable of actually looking at what we are sending and who is making these decisions.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Well I'm capable and I can quite clearly see political voting. I will not apologise for my country being possibly favoured in the running order draw cuz we've endured a decade of scummy and corrupt voting we deserve a little something to make up for it.

 

[QwaarJet]

Well I'm capable and I can quite clearly see political voting. I will not apologise for my country being possibly favoured in the running order draw cuz we've endured a decade of scummy and corrupt voting we deserve a little something to make up for it.

No, actually. You don't deserve anything to "make up for it". Your in-built sense of entitlement is frankly astonishing. UK does not deserve any better or worse than any other ESC country. That's the whole point of the contest. If the draw screws you over then oh well **** happens, If your song is bad then try better next year, and if you get pissed at the voting patterns then accept it or try and appeal to other areas of Europe outside of your small section. All of these things can be explained, but If the producers don't like you and put you 2nd in the final, then...uh....you're screwed.

The potential for shenanigans is somewhat frightening.

 

[Matt]

Well I'm capable and I can quite clearly see political voting. I will not apologise for my country being possibly favoured in the running order draw cuz we've endured a decade of scummy and corrupt voting we deserve a little something to make up for it.

Considering the juries have been more harsh with the UK than the televoters, I highly doubt the broadcasters would do them any favors either. The entries from the UK over the past few years have been widely considered underwhelming (esp 2008, 2010 & 2012) by fans and critics but to get back to my original concern: It is irrelevant whether or not SVT favors certain countries, the perception will be that they did by those with an unfortunate draw (which includes the UK)

 

[LalehForWD]

^ You're probably right when it comes to some ESC fans. But what about the casual watchers?

 

[LalehForWD]

In Sweden only 1 out of 3 (or 1 out of 4) watchers of Melodifestivalen typically watches Eurovision. Furthermore, I don't know anyone who takes the contest seriously (for obvious reasons). Some people gets into some kind of "Heja Sverige!" sports cheering mode, but in a kind of joke fashion way. There is nothing of the heat as in when Charlotte Kalla and Anna Haag are chasing Marit Bjørgen and Therese Johaug in Tour de ski. Bending the rules in FIS World Cup is just unthinkable and any cheating would be truly scandalous. I feel it's impossible to apply the same type of attitude to Eurovision Song Contest and doing so somehow violates the fundamental ideas behind the contest. I have not seen any fundamental ideas behind Eurovision Song Contest openly expressed though. Clear, simple and fair rules are of course vital in the contest but getting serious in this respect will easily become ridiculous. A great show is by far the most important factor.

 

[NeonProject]

Well I'm capable and I can quite clearly see political voting. I will not apologise for my country being possibly favoured in the running order draw cuz we've endured a decade of scummy and corrupt voting we deserve a little something to make up for it.

We partake in political voting as well. Maybe other countries deserve things to make up for us voting Greece, Malta and Ireland very often, and often recieving votes from these countries?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

No, actually. You don't deserve anything to "make up for it". Your in-built sense of entitlement is frankly astonishing. UK does not deserve any better or worse than any other ESC country. That's the whole point of the contest. If the draw screws you over then oh well **** happens, If your song is bad then try better next year, and if you get pissed at the voting patterns then accept it or try and appeal to other areas of Europe outside of your small section. All of these things can be explained, but If the producers don't like you and put you 2nd in the final, then...uh....you're screwed.

The potential for shenanigans is somewhat frightening.

Well sh*t happens too if the producers like our money . After all, we pay for the contest, Im not going to apologise for us receiving benefits in return.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Considering the juries have been more harsh with the UK than the televoters, I highly doubt the broadcasters would do them any favors either. The entries from the UK over the past few years have been widely considered underwhelming (esp 2008, 2010 & 2012) by fans and critics but to get back to my original concern: It is irrelevant whether or not SVT favors certain countries, the perception will be that they did by those with an unfortunate draw (which includes the UK)

We need a new voting system, but that will have to wait until we have another innovative country like Sweden hosting.