Running order for 2013

[Matt]

A good show is the most important thing. And this new rule will bring a better show!

According to you. (not a fact) A lot of people believe that a fair treatment of all entries is the foundation and corner stone of the competition.

 

[A-lister]

all swedes? have to talked to OGAE Sweden about this? Lolz. They don't feel that way. And since is anybody here speaking on behalf of "All Swedes" or "All people"... Was he elected by the people to represent them? And even if the majority of Swedes agree with the running order, that won't change the fact that the remaining countries do not which is why Sweden is being criticized for that. So whether the Swedes agree or not won't change that fact.

and yes, there are several links in this thread talking about the draw, scientific research by Universities. Feel free to check'em out.

You cannot have a conversation when you make a statement but then tell me not to ask for a source, otherwise i can say I can say that Sweden only wants to steal everyone's ketchup bottles but don't ask me for a source.

Laleh is always using the 'all Swedes' line as some sort of rhetorical weapon against me when she disagrees with my opinions (what she forgets though is that her subjective opinions and the opinions she quotes from Swedish tabloids aren't the opinions of 'all Swedes' and never will be).

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

According to you. (not a fact) A lot of people believe that a fair treatment of all entries is the foundation and corner stone of the competition.

What's the point in having a TV show then? It's not the United Nations ffs!

 

[Matt]

What's the point in having a TV show then? It's not the United Nations ffs!

Eurovision obviously isn't your average TV show. Imagine giving countries at the Olympic a head start cause it's more entertaining. Would that feel right? Both are entertainment shows, one for sports and one in music.
While we all can disagree on the objective point of view when it comes to judging music, it is a contest/competition afterall and every contestant needs to be treated equally.

 

[A-lister]

What's the point in having a TV show then? It's not the United Nations ffs!

Eurovision is not just 'any TV show', it's a contest and shouldn't that be as fair as possible?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Eurovision obviously isn't your average TV show. Imagine giving countries at the Olympic a head start cause it's more entertaining. Would that feel right? Both are entertainment shows, one for sports and one in music.
While we all can disagree on the objective point of view when it comes to judging music, it is a contest/competition afterall and every contestant needs to be treated equally.

Well we're not treated equally already are we - half of Europe has a political/diaspora voting advantage, 5 in the other half pre-qualify to the final. I dont see how predetermining the running order can make it any more unfair that it already is.

 

[Matt]

Well we're not treated equally already are we - half of Europe has a political/diaspora voting advantage, 5 in the other half pre-qualify to the final. I dont see how predetermining the running order can make it any more unfair that it already is.

2 wrongs don't make it right. I agree diaspora voting is an issue and needs to be addressed.
But saying that since there are already flaws in the system, let's make it even more unfair bias. I understand that entertainment aspect but there are other ways to improve on that rather just giving a selected group of people the ability to place songs wherever they want to.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

2 wrongs don't make it right. I agree diaspora voting is an issue and needs to be addressed.
But saying that since there are already flaws in the system, let's make it even more unfair bias. I understand that entertainment aspect but there are other ways to improve on that rather just giving a selected group of people the ability to place songs wherever they want to.

Well this is a "third" wrong then, isnt it. And Im not claiming it's going to make it fairer (you're the only one arguing the fairness thing - and Im saying why are you bothered because it's not fair already?), Im claiming it's going to make a better TV show. And I do believe it will. We have such selection of the running order in National Final's already, and it works well imo.

 

[Matt]

Well this is a "third" wrong then, isnt it. And Im not claiming it's going to make it fairer (you're the only one arguing the fairness thing - and Im saying why are you bothered because it's not fair already?), Im claiming it's going to make a better TV show. And I do believe it will. We have such selection of the running order in National Final's already, and it works well imo.

As said, if the UK has to run 150m in a 100m dash, it's okay cause it's entertaining to see them run a little longer. And that is my point, you cannot put entertainment over equal treatment. Otherwise it's no longer a contest, it's a reality TV show.

 

[A-lister]

I'm not sure if I've ever been in such an agreement with Matt regarding a Eurovision issue before, the whole running-order farse is really a common ground!

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

As said, if the UK has to run 150m in a 100m dash, it's okay cause it's entertaining to see them run a little longer. And that is my point, you cannot put entertainment over equal treatment. Otherwise it's no longer a contest, it's a reality TV show.

This isnt the Olympics though, is it? It's Eurovision. And btw we do have to run 150m down the 100m track in Eurovision due to our voting disadvantage.

 

[A-lister]

This isnt the Olympics though, is it? It's Eurovision. And btw we do have to run 150m down the 100m track in Eurovision due to our voting disadvantage.

It's the Olympics of music just deal! :twisted:

 

[Matt]

This isnt the Olympics though, is it? It's Eurovision. And btw we do have to run 150m down the 100m track in Eurovision due to our voting disadvantage.

In the Olympics and ESC countries are competing so it's the same concept. And you're once again using one separate issue to justify this one. Diaspora is a concern and should be addressed individually. And it's confusing me cause it's sounds to me that you believe the running order will give the UK an advantage which I don't see happening.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

The running track of Eurovision - distance to the finish line:
Turkey - 40m
Serbia - 50m
Sweden - 55m
Russia - 65m
United Kingdom - 150m
Ireland - 155m
France - 160m

 

[A-lister]

^
Sweden above Russia? We had some flops during the past years, in general I'd say Russia's track record have been better (despite us winning and ending top. 3 in the last 2 editions).

 

[Matt]

The running track of Eurovision - distance to the finish line:
Turkey - 40m
Serbia - 50m
Sweden - 55m
Russia - 65m
United Kingdom - 150m
Ireland - 155m
France - 160m

Once again, that is according to YOU. No data to back that up. Personal opinions are fun and all but should not be used to change the rule of a contest.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

^
Sweden above Russia? We had some flops during the past years, in general I'd say Russia's track record have been better (despite us winning and ending top. 3 in the last 2 editions).

Russia's not that popular though. However they are able to get the diaspora votes from their satellites. Id say that Sweden has an easier time at ESC than Russia, for sure.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

In the Olympics and ESC countries are competing so it's the same concept. And you're once again using one separate issue to justify this one. Diaspora is a concern and should be addressed individually. And it's confusing me cause it's sounds to me that you believe the running order will give the UK an advantage which I don't see happening.

Absolutely not. Im asking you, what are you trying to say from corruption/unfairness?? Because it's already corrupt and it's already unfair. End of!
It remains to be seen whether the UK will receive an advantage, I wouldnt support something based upon the assumption of us getting a head start anyway. I dont know what position the UK will be given, but I am supporting this because I think it has more plus points than minus ones.

 

[A-lister]

Russia's not that popular though. However they are able to get the diaspora votes from their satellites. Id say that Sweden has an easier time at ESC than Russia, for sure.

Oh really? Let's take a look at the results since the introduction of semis shall we? (#X = position in final)

100% televoting:
2004: #5 (shared top. 5), #11
2005: #19, #15
2006: #5, #2
2007: #19, #3
2008: #18 (wouldn't even have made it to the finals if it weren't for the juries wildcard), #1

50% televoting, 50% juries:
2009: #21, #11
2010: No final!, #11
2011: #3, #16
2012: #1, #2

3 - 6

8/9 x finals, 2x top. 5 (1 shared), 1x top. 3, 1x win
9/9 x finals, 3x top. 3, 1x win

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Well you do well with the juries for sure, much better than Russia does. Now compare that to us or France, we are disadvantaged in both the televote and jury, hence why we have like 100m more than either you or Russia to even be in with a chance of victory.