Countries of 2016

[SpZ]

I don't pretend to be a geographical expert so don't ask me why the boundaries are the way they are, I just know what the boundaries of Europe are. My guess is that Iberia and the Italian Peninsula are still part of the Eurasian plate, hence why the mountains aren't a continental boundary. British Isles technically aren't part of any continent because islands are continent-less - but go back a few thousand years, and we were part of Europe. Shows how fluid this thing is, and why you shouldn't be judging Eurovision membership on geography


We are connected to Africa too, yet that is on a different continental plate. Being joined by land doesn't mean much as sea levels rise and fall.

If you are basing your argumentation on continental plates... Well then by that definition China and Indonesia are in Europe as well. The boundaries you claim Europe to have are purely constructed and political (not geographic).

And on side note neither of us is claiming that ESC participation should depend on geography of Europe.

 

[Chorizo]

There is: the Ural Mountains, the Caucasus, and the Mediterranean Sea. And in response to your earlier post, Armenia is not geographic Europe, never has been. Georgia and Azerbaijan just have tiny slivers of their territory within Europe, as does Kazakhstan.

Europe is set apart from Africa and Arabia by different tectonic plates and the Mediterranean but the distinction between Asia and Europe is based on culture and not on geography since geographically Europe and Asia are one continent, Eurasia. The Ural Mountains are not a natural border between different continents. They are just a mountain range in the middle of the same continent, like the Alps, the Andes or the Rocky Mountains.

I understand that a point can be made that it is not just about tectonic plates since India and Arabia are on separate tectonic plates. These are rather small, however, and attached to the much larger Eurasian plate. Any border between Europe and Asia is just a cultural convention.

 

[Chorizo]

I don't pretend to be a geographical expert so don't ask me why the boundaries are the way they are, I just know what the boundaries of Europe are. My guess is that Iberia and the Italian Peninsula are still part of the Eurasian plate, hence why the mountains aren't a continental boundary. British Isles technically aren't part of any continent because islands are continent-less - but go back a few thousand years, and we were part of Europe. Shows how fluid this thing is, and why you shouldn't be judging Eurovision membership on geography


We are connected to Africa too, yet that is on a different continental plate. Being joined by land doesn't mean much as sea levels rise and fall.

The British Isles are on the Eurasian plate and therefore geographically the UK is part of Eurasia. It's not true that the UK is not part of a continent. Here's a map to illustrate that:

The UK is just a few kilometers away from France and the sea isn't even deep there.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

A continent and a continental plate are two different things. For instance, there is no "Pacific" continent is there, and you wouldn't consider eastern Russia to be part of North America... Technically "continents" only consist of landmass, and so islands are never considered part of a continent. But by convention, islands are generally included with their nearest continent, eg British Isles considered part of Europe. But like I said, this is really fluid, because a few thousand years ago we weren't islands and so we were part of the European continent.

I don't even get why this is being discussed though, as I said, geographic location is really no reason to exclude Australia when we already have countries in Eurovision who are from outside Europe.

And a country's qualification for joining a music competition should be based on its cultural make-up, not its geography and which continental plate it's on. Leave that stuff to geographers at college.

What is unfair is that some people are saying Armenia should be allowed to participate despite being in Asia because it is "culturally compatible", while at the same time saying that Australia shouldn't be allowed to participate because it is Oceania, despite admitting that it is "culturally compatible".

 

[SpZ]

A continent and a continental plate are two different things. For instance, there is no "Pacific" continent is there, and you wouldn't consider eastern Russia to be part of North America... Technically "continents" only consist of landmass, and so islands are never considered part of a continent. But by convention, islands are generally included with their nearest continent, eg British Isles considered part of Europe. But like I said, this is really fluid, because a few thousand years ago we weren't islands and so we were part of the European continent.

Tectonic plates indeed do not have much to do with continents and as you pointed out continents are constructed ideas based on convention and politics instead of anything objectively geographical.

About the islands. The thing is that English simply lacks vocabulary here. Eg there are no words (like other languages have) to differentiate between continents as large land masses surrounded by the world ocean and continent as regions of the world that share vague cultural similarities and are more or less geographically connected to continents. That is Australia and Afro-Eurasia would be continents in the 1st sense while Europe and Oceania would be continents in the 2nd sense.

I don't even get why this is being discussed though, as I said, geographic location is really no reason to exclude Australia when we already have countries in Eurovision who are from outside Europe.

Geographic location as in belonging to Europe or not is indeed irrelevant here

And a country's qualification for joining a music competition should be based on its cultural make-up, not its geography and which continental plate it's on. Leave that stuff to geographers at college.

Erm no, it should be based on the established rules. And if the currently established rule is the EBU broadcasting area, that should be accepted. If it is changed into cultural whatever. then it is more or less fine to me (although I do find it very difficult to establish anything remotely objective to compare cultures)

What is unfair is that some people are saying Armenia should be allowed to participate despite being in Asia because it is "culturally compatible", while at the same time saying that Australia shouldn't be allowed to participate because it is Oceania, despite admitting that it is "culturally compatible".

Hmm if someone would make such claim, it would be unfair indeed. Haven't really seen anyone claiming that here though.

 

[lavieenrose]

I'd go further than SpZ. Not only do tectonic plates have very little to do with continents, they have nothing to do with Eurovision.

 

[Chorizo]

Well, in most cases there is either one tectonic plate per continent or there is a larger plate with smaller plates attached to it. The only exception is northeastern Russia, which belongs to the North American plate.
The fact that New Guinea is on the Australian plate is the reason why it is seen as part of Oceania, so the plates do matter.

Of course that topic isn't very Eurovision-y.

 

[NeonProject]

My god people are so overdramatic.

Australia's participation was fun and didn't really change that much of the show. In fact they brought the standard up imo.

If they just stood on stage and farted for 3 minutes I could understand why people are spitting their dummies out so much, but they submitted a fantastic song and treated the contest with the upmost respect.

If you're seriously that bothered by this I suggest you go for a long walk in nature, are there really not enough things going on in your life, that you have to spend all your time arguing about something that happened almost a year ago now? Get a grip.

I know I'd much rather have Aus in ESC than the UK, but why not have both?

 

[Milos-BC]

If you're seriously that bothered by this I suggest you go for a long walk in nature, are there really not enough things going on in your life, that you have to spend all your time arguing about something that happened almost a year ago now? Get a grip.

In other words, "if you don't agree with breaking of the contest's fundamental rules, you might just as well f**k off and go outside". Nice, nice.


Lack of arguments always leads into trivializing and thesis changing, such as this one here. Why don't you suggest the same to pro-Australia people as well? Double standars or something else?

 

[lavieenrose]

My god people are so overdramatic...Get a grip.

Thank you for saying what I felt like I couldn't

 

[julien4ESC]

I don't understand why people are so dramatic about Australia. We should be happy that Eurovision welcomes new countries and keep growing after 60 years !
By the way the limit is set at 46 countries a year. This limit has never been reached so I don't see the problem to have countries outside Europe. They don't take the seat of another country.

 

[AdelAdel]

I don't understand why people are so dramatic about Australia. We should be happy that Eurovision welcomes new countries and keep growing after 60 years !

Would you support China entering Eurovision? Because I remember that when there was this whole talk about China entering next year's contest, many of the pro-Australian people shouted things like: "Australia was okay, but China definitely not!". Again, giving the whole "Australia has European culture" argument.

 

[julien4ESC]

Yes I think it's time for another step for Eurovision:
First step=western european countries
second step=eastern european countries
third step=international countries

And finally Eurovision will be the biggest musical event of the Wooooorld that everybody knows !!!!!

 

[LalehForWD]

The British Isles are on the Eurasian plate and therefore geographically the UK is part of Eurasia. It's not true that the UK is not part of a continent. Here's a map to illustrate that:

The UK is just a few kilometers away from France and the sea isn't even deep there.

Plate tectonics

 

[Leydan]

Plate tectonics

Yes. Totally related to eurovision and definitely on topic with the thread.

 

[AdelAdel]

Yes I think it's time for another step for Eurovision:
First step=western european countries
second step=eastern european countries
third step=international countries

And finally Eurovision will be the biggest musical event of the Wooooorld that everybody knows !!!!!

I see. At least you're not a hypocrite, unlike some other people

 

[lavieenrose]

Yes. Totally related to eurovision and definitely on topic with the thread.

Agreed.

But seriously though plate tectonics

 

[Chorizo]

xsnooty

 

[NeonProject]

In other words, "if you don't agree with breaking of the contest's fundamental rules, you might just as well f**k off and go outside". Nice, nice.


Lack of arguments always leads into trivializing and thesis changing, such as this one here. Why don't you suggest the same to pro-Australia people as well? Double standars or something else?

You're making assumptions about me when this is the first thing I've even said about this matter.

I'm actually mixed on Australia, it opens up a lot of questions and frustrations which I understand. But this is all getting repetitive and tiresome. It's the same people making the same arguments day in, day out... the EBU are going to do what they want at the end of the day. Why not just voice your opinion and move on, rather than continuously arguing about it over the period of 8 or so months?

Personally, I believe there should be a 3rd mini semi-final where associate members or whatever can compete for the 1 guest spot.

 

[Charly]

Let's invite Greenland