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Swedenvision

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And Loreen won, just because Russia performed 6th. Just admit, Mans had a mediocre song, and didnt even come 2nd.

Loreen won becuase that was the best song ever in ESC and Loreen won both jury-voting and televote.

Måns won jurvy-vote and 3rd in televote, Italy may have won televote but did very bad with juries and in order to win ESC today you need to impress both Juries and televote and Italy did´t do that.

Sweden was a fair winner.
 

ElRuso

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Loreen won becuase that was the best song ever in ESC and Loreen won both jury-voting and televote.

Måns won jurvy-vote and 3rd in televote, Italy may have won televote but did very bad with juries and in order to win ESC today you need to impress both Juries and televote and Italy did´t do that.

Sweden was a fair winner.

But Loreen won televoting with just 11 points difference. So, saying that Sweden didnt won now because Italy had better draw is just stupid.

Again liked the post accidently:lol:
 

FoxOfShadows

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Loreen won becuase that was the best song ever in ESC and Loreen won both jury-voting and televote.

Måns won jurvy-vote and 3rd in televote, Italy may have won televote but did very bad with juries and in order to win ESC today you need to impress both Juries and televote and Italy did´t do that.

Sweden was a fair winner.

But people are complaining that the juries are not a fair way of ranking. They have too much power so it sways more towards jury favourites than televoting favourites. The EBU didn't want Russia or Italy to host and they're ranked down by juries. The whole thing is very suspicious
 

Swedenvision

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Means Italy has big diaspora voting for them unlike especially Sweden.

Also the runnig order maybe has something to do with this?


Thank you!!

Both Italy and Russia is big countires with many "firends" compare to Sweden.

Even tough Sweden is a power force i ESC we don´t have same "friends" as this countries, add both Italy and Russia had better positions in the running order.

Juries prevent this neighboring voting and whitout them we would go back to a ESC were the song itself dosen´t matter that much and the country with most neighbors would win.
 

Swedenvision

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But Loreen won televoting with just 11 points difference. So, saying that Sweden didnt won now because Italy had better draw is just stupid.

Again liked the post accidently:lol:


Yes Loreen with that song (the best ever in ESC according to many) only was 11 points ahead in televote of that joke Russia sent that year says very much about how the viewers vote and rate quality....

Thank god for juries.
 

ElRuso

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Yes Loreen with that song (the best ever in ESC according to many) only was 11 points ahead in televote of that joke Russia sent that year says very much about how the viewers vote and rate quality....

It is democracy, isnt it?
 

Swedenvision

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It is democracy, isnt it?

Yes of course, but like i said if we only have televote we would go back to ESC as it was for some years ago, the song did´t matter that much back then, the most important thing was how many neighbors you had, and big countries like Russia, Italy and balkan countries for example benefiting from that.

Since juries was introduced it has been more about the song and preformance, and that is what this competition is all about, right?

Of course i can understand the disappointment from Italy, but this the rules. To win you must impress both viewers and juries and Sweden did that and not Italy and Russia.

And in 2011 if we only have had televote Sweden would have won, that year juries helped Italy to 2nd place and Azerbaijan to win and pulled down Sweden to 3rd place.
 

ElRuso

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Yes of course, but like i said if we only have televote we would go back to ESC as it was for some years ago, the song did´t matter that much back then, the most important thing was how many neighbors you had, and big countries like Russia, Italy and balkan countries for example benefiting from that.

Since juries was introduced it has been more about the song and preformance, and that is what this competition is all about, right?

Of course i can understand the disappointment from Italy, but this the rules. To win you must impress both viewers and juries and Sweden did that and not Italy and Russia.

And in 2011 if we only have had televote Sweden would have won, that year juries helped Italy to 2nd place and Azerbaijan to win and pulled down Sweden to 3rd place.

You had nearly 50 years when always Western countries won, and countries like Turkey came last because they are East. And when East started to win, EBU reintroduces juries.

As of 2011, I can then say that Russia won in 2003, right?
 

Swedenvision

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You had nearly 50 years when always Western countries won, and countries like Turkey came last because they are East. And when East started to win, EBU reintroduces juries.

As of 2011, I can then say that Russia won in 2003, right?

All i said is with both juries and televote it more about the song rather than "friends".
 

Jacketh

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In terms of the running order and the impact on results, I really don't know. Last year we all spoke of Molly flopping because she performed last. Italy didn't do too badly with that, eh? :p

I do think the juries should have an impact as it allows for a live perspective. I think they need to be revamped, though. The EBU should be in charge of selecting the judges for each nation.

In terms of the running order, I felt things become somewhat boring after Belgium who were 13th. Felt like a massive cycle of ballads until the end after that.
 

lowyby

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In terms of music, I do prefer Sweden over Italy, so I should be happy with this win, but I just can't.
It's just so non-democracy-ish to see the runaway televoting winner becoming 3th because of that major jury impact :S
It's time to go back to the voting system during 2009 - 2012, it's not like mediocre songs like Austria & Germany get saved with this system anyways, it's full of flaws
Poor Germany & Austria, they didn't deserve that 0
 

Luki

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Means Italy has big diaspora voting for them unlike especially Sweden.

Also the runnig order maybe has something to do with this?

Diaspora voting is not an excuse. It's all about cultural ties really.
 

daniels1000

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I think juries are being given way too much power in the contest. Mathematically, it's 50:50 between jury's and televoting's power in voting but in reality juries are given more power to change the results. First of all, the national juries consist of only 5 members so they have a huge influence (20%) on the average rank and therefore the place in jury voting. On the other hand, 10.81 million people watched the contest in Germany in 2014. Let's say that only 25% Germans voted (2.70 million). Your vote would, in that case, have the influence of 0.000037% in voting. That's a huge motivation to vote, isn't it? Furthermore, that also makes the juries opened for bribes, cheating and whatnot. I understand the diaspora voting gets out of the control in some countries but the juries do not solve it as well. All Moldovan jurors still ranked Romania 1st. What are the chances for that!? There's a space for progress but then this kind of voting has to be punished. On the contrary, Albania won the televoting in Italy (obviously because Elhaida won The Voice in Italy) but jury ranked it 25th so it got nothing in the end. Not to mention a bit too similar voting patterns in a lot of national juries. What are the chances of finding 5 persons with a very similar music tastes? Juries should consist of much more than just 5 people and with different music tastes. Juries are also supposed to be professional. I dare to ask how the hell is a 17-year old girl Isa from Sweden any more professional than any other Swede? Don't misunderstand me, I have nothing against her being in the national jury but the jury should not classify as professional then.

I'm not trying to say that juries should be absolutely kicked out of the contest but I'm in favor of abolishing the full ranking system, punishment for some obvious cheating in national juries and the juries being consisted of more people with different tastes. In that case, 50:50 system would do pretty well in my opinion. With this full ranking system, 70:30 or even 75:25 would be much better (in favor of televoting of course).

After all, televoters have shown they appreciate different songs and styles and have be proven as way less conservative than the juries. The juries were supposed to be the ones who are not influenced by graphics, diaspora voting etc. but it turns out it's the other way round. :rolleyes:

Edit: I forgot to say that some songs would still get a 12 despite the diaspora voting. For example, Montenegro would get a 12 from Serbia no matter Montenegro was or was not the Serbian neighbour.
 

Swedenvision

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Yes, I know. I am too stupid. Nordics are not friends with :se:

You just don´t understand or what is this about?

Of course friendly voting still exists with juries too, but with this combined voting the overall result is more about song rather then firends, Sweden for examaple got 12 points from Italy, if it had been only televote a song like Albania would have got 12 points....

And the Nordic alliance is not that friendly every year, we gave for example 12 points to Australia this year it that a Nordic country?
And we don´t always get 12 points from our nordic friends, when we send Eric Saade in 2011 we did´t get that good points from our neighbors to be honest.
 
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