Sweden SWEDEN 2023 - Loreen - Tattoo

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Ezio]

So, Sweden has a 40%+ chance of winning according to the odds, which is a huge margin, but then, it's also less than Duncan Lawrence, who in the end neither won jury nor televote, or less than Ukraine, who didn't look like a winner after the jury vote but knocked the televote out of the park. For me it looks like Sweden is the safest bet and even people who don't love the song vote for it in self-defeat. But in May people vote with their phones.

Mostly, the winner is the most original song of a year, something out of the mainstream. But 2023, could be one of these years, when that's not the case, just like in 2011, 2013 or 2015, also 2019, although 2019 didn't have very original and quirky songs to begin with, and those it had, were shunned in the semis.

In any case, if Sweden wins, I think Göteborg is the plausible host city, since Malmö and Stockholm have been recent hosts and Göteborg hasn't hosted since 39 years. Any other Swedish city doesn't come to my mind.

I just hope that Sweden would refrain from wielding their power to meddle with the rule book yet again. I am not a fan of any of their introduced changes in the past, and I am not looking forward to new changes, unless they'd roll back what they've introduced.

Their approach to hosting 2013, was kinda condescending, finding the smallest venue and hosting on a budget, which left them overshadowed in the years to come, especially by Copenhagen 2014. Also the scoring system of 2013 was ditched right away and remains undisclosed as of today. So that no one can compare 2013 ranks to the rest of the era we're in.

The production draw is outrageous, also the ability of jurors to rank songs from top to bottom. I am also not happy with the presentation of the votes, and the scripted dialogues with spokespersons were a total cringe fest in 2016.

What I would love though as a change, would be a presentation of votes like this:

Eurovision 2022: Grand Final rankings visualised | Animated scoreboard

A visualisation of every ranking and point scored in the 66th Eurovision Song Contest Grand Final, which took place on Saturday 14th May 2022 in Turin, Italy...

www.youtube.com

Which would mean, we could skip the spokespeople.

I would also support a jury-only semi and a televote-only grand final, moving forward.

Sweden as a host has a hunch on strange logos like a messy-coloured butterfly or dandelion that later reminded me of the coronavirus. Also their colour scheme is always on the dark blue and teal side. Polar lights effects would be appreciated, to take us out of the freezer.

 

[Realest]

Jury only Semi would be horrible..
Top5 Entries (TV only) like 22 19 16 wouldnt have qualified.

Anyway I trust SVT to find the right Solution regarding possible Changes. They proved often enough to know how Things work.

 

[simori95]

Btw I just randomly checked the Wikipedia article for Air from Marcus and Martinus. Did they truly just Chart in Sweden and not even Norway? I thought the Melodifestivalen appearance would have triggered some attention and Streaming etc. in Norway at least.

 

[babadabada]

I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet.
If this win, it would be a massive deception regarding how fade, repetitive and uncreative this entry is.
To me, it is really painful to hear without the visual. This is as painful with the visual cause her nails are really ridiculous.
I wasn’t a fan of Euphoria but I understood why it won back in 2012. If she win this year, it would be the proof that Eurovision is stuck in the past and is self turned. It won’t make any good to ESC’s reputation among Europe and World.

 

[GermanBango]

I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet.
If this win, it would be a massive deception regarding how fade, repetitive and uncreative this entry is.
To me, it is really painful to hear without the visual. This is as painful with the visual cause her nails are really ridiculous.
I wasn’t a fan of Euphoria but I understood why it won back in 2012. If she win this year, it would be the proof that Eurovision is stuck in the past and is self turned. It won’t make any good to ESC’s reputation among Europe and World.

A little over-dramatic?

 

[babadabada]

A little over-dramatic?

Call it as you want ! This is my point of view

 

[GermanBango]

Call it as you want ! This is my point of view

So if Sweden wins the Contest will die a horrible death. Got it. Next.

Edit: just because you don’t like a song doesn’t mean it winning would be bad for Eurovision as a whole. Like I think Finland is pretty bad this year (for my personal taste) and I could easily argue that it winning would be a step back to the jokey/campy-years. Yet I won’t make this kind of argument because it’s bs.

 

[babadabada]

So if Sweden wins the Contest will die a horrible death. Got it. Next.

This is not what I said. But I THINK it will not make the contest gain in credibility.
Once again THIS IS MY PERSONNAL OPINION, which has no more value than someone else opinion.
Please, stop over interpreting other people’s words.

 

[GermanBango]

This is not what I said. But I THINK it will not make the contest gain in credibility.
Once again THIS IS MY PERSONNAL OPINION, which has no more value than someone else opinion.
Please, stop over interpreting other people’s words.

Well it's a forum. What do you expect when you come up with a rather ... controversial idea? Ofc some people will comment on that.

 

[midnightsun]

It‘s by far not more controversial than some other opinions here. I like the bias on this forum.

While I agree that Sweden shouldn’t win because it’s a lame song (in my opinion) and Loreen‘s performance isn’t appealing to me I don’t agree the Song Contest gets worse with returning artists. Credibility doesn’t have to do with whether an artist returns for the 5th or 20th time and it doesn’t mean it‘s stuck in the past. As long as the song / performance is winner worthy it doesn’t matter who it is and how often they took part. Sweden is not a winner performance for me, but yeah. If I write this people go on me. This forum‘s common motto is: "Yes, of course you can have an opinion as long as it‘s the same as mine!"

 

[njdevils94]

A claw off with Mae perhaps?

 

[GermanBango]

It‘s by far not more controversial than some other opinions here. I like the bias on this forum.

While I agree that Sweden shouldn’t win because it’s a lame song (in my opinion) and Loreen‘s performance isn’t appealing to me I don’t agree the Song Contest gets worse with returning artists. Credibility doesn’t have to do with whether an artist returns for the 5th or 20th time and it doesn’t mean it‘s stuck in the past. As long as the song / performance is winner worthy it doesn’t matter who it is and how often they took part. Sweden is not a winner performance for me, but yeah. If I write this people go on me. This forum‘s common motto is: "Yes, of course you can have an opinion as long as it‘s the same as mine!"

You come into a Eurovision discussion forum, into the thread that is about one specific entry just to tell everyone and their grandmas how bad said entry is. Why act surprised when people comment on that or try to, you know, discuss? This usually has nothing to do with people "coming for you" or "hating on your opinion". Apparently the motto of this forum (and to the society as a whole these days) seems to be more like: "I have an opinion and nobody can say anything that challenges said opinion. If they do so they are just haters".

(Not to throw shade or anything but you are doing the exact same thing in the Germany thread as soon as anyone says they don't like LOTL - you try to argue with them which is kinda the sole purpose of places like these)

 

[babadabada]

But, you wasn’t explaining an opinion, just over interpreting, judging other’s opinion and expressing yours as if it has a better value.
I am not attacking Loren’s fan, Tatoo’s inconditionnals.
I know why I am posting here : to share point of view, not attacking opinions I don’t share.

To answer to @midnightsun , it is not the fact Loreen already won in 2012 that bowsers me, but the fact that this year entry sounds more dated, to me.

I must confess I am tired of Sweden entries and the way it takes part to competition, but if it came with something appealing to me, fresh and new, I would be the first behind it !

Never mind, all this shit is matter of taste.
Do I find all people not liking AZ entry this year stupids and tasteless ? No, even if I think it deserves top 10.

 

[simori95]

I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet.
If this win, it would be a massive deception regarding how fade, repetitive and uncreative this entry is.
To me, it is really painful to hear without the visual. This is as painful with the visual cause her nails are really ridiculous.
I wasn’t a fan of Euphoria but I understood why it won back in 2012. If she win this year, it would be the proof that Eurovision is stuck in the past and is self turned. It won’t make any good to ESC’s reputation among Europe and World.

Now I will just quickly try to explain why I think GermanBango had an issue, and, ngl I do to an extent as well. This is NOT(!) meant to add fuel to the fire, I do not want to attack anybody, merely show that we should all be more mindful of how we communicate.

In the quote above, @babadabada, you literally say that if Loreen wins, it’s „proof“ that your opinion is correct (as in the contest would be stuck in the past). You may say it’s over-Interpretation, but honestly the way you worded it, it doesn’t sound like over-Interpretation to me but as though GermanBango Interpreted it spot on. Now you might not have MEANT it that way, but the way you SAID it, it’s pretty obviously exactly how GermanBango interpreted it. Would you have said „proof for me“ or whatever, I am with you 100%, and yes of course everyone is allowed to have every opinion and everybody may choose whatever (non-harmful) wording they want, but words matter and when you don’t clarify something as your opinion but make it sound as though it were a fact (like using the word proof without Indicating that you mean this only specifically about your perspective and you don’t claim the absolute generality of the statement), intentionally or not, other people are just as justified to call it out as you are justified to have and express your opinion. I think actually some of the best and fruitful discussions can come from disagreeing, but not when you accuse someone of overinterpreting when they clearly didn’t do that, and saying you didn’t say that when you clearly did and maybe just not meant it. You are in fact partly responsible for how your words come across and not just for how you mean them.

I hope you understand how I mean it, and there are several examples in the same quote above that show the difference: sometimes, you used the words „to me“ before your statements, and like that it’s perfectly clear that it’s just your opinion and no one can fault you for that (some will of course try, but they‘d be wrong to do so). But when you look at the parts that GB criticised, you did not do that, as in, trying (intentionally or not) to present them as facts, which they aren’t.

Now of course, I don’t have the right to tell you how you word stuff, like I already said above and of course you can continue in whichever (non-harmful) communication style suits you best. But that doesn’t make GermanBangos callouts unjustified or overinterpreted, and you shouldn’t be surprised if it keeps happening. And then hopefully next time this happens you can just say „sorry I didn’t mean it like that, I meant ABC“ instead of trying to twist the blame on someone else who is merely going off of what exactly you said.

 

[midnightsun]

you are doing the exact same thing in the Germany thread as soon as anyone says they don't like LOTL

You must live in another year because I surely didn’t do that. I even said, none of us Germans is delusional to think it will win.
Unless you think "argue" is defending myself as being called dumbass, amongst others.
Or answering to posts about LOTL with my opinion.
I never attacked anyone because they said "LOTL sucks". Just went briefly through my posts to make sure.
But on the other hand, I was getting hateful answers because I didn’t like Sweden.

 

[GermanBango]

You must live in another year because I surely didn’t do that. I even said, none of us Germans is delusional to think it will win.
Unless you think "argue" is defending myself as being called dumbass, amongst others.
Or answering to posts about LOTL with my opinion.
I never attacked anyone because they said "LOTL sucks". Just went briefly through my posts to make sure.
But on the other hand, I was getting hateful answers because I didn’t like Sweden.

a) I didn't say that you attacked anyone. All I said was that you tend to get into a conversation/discussion with people which is basically the purpose of this forum.
b) where are these "hateful answers"? I'm just curious because as stated earlier people tend to be very thin skinned these days and throw around the word "hate(er)" very loosely.

 

[GermanBango]

Now I will just quickly try to explain why I think GermanBango had an issue, and, ngl I do to an extent as well. This is NOT(!) meant to add fuel to the fire, I do not want to attack anybody, merely show that we should all be more mindful of how we communicate.

In the quote above, @babadabada, you literally say that if Loreen wins, it’s „proof“ that your opinion is correct (as in the contest would be stuck in the past). You may say it’s over-Interpretation, but honestly the way you worded it, it doesn’t sound like over-Interpretation to me but as though GermanBango Interpreted it spot on. Now you might not have MEANT it that way, but the way you SAID it, it’s pretty obviously exactly how GermanBango interpreted it. Would you have said „proof for me“ or whatever, I am with you 100%, and yes of course everyone is allowed to have every opinion and everybody may choose whatever (non-harmful) wording they want, but words matter and when you don’t clarify something as your opinion but make it sound as though it were a fact (like using the word proof without Indicating that you mean this only specifically about your perspective and you don’t claim the absolute generality of the statement), intentionally or not, other people are just as justified to call it out as you are justified to have and express your opinion. I think actually some of the best and fruitful discussions can come from disagreeing, but not when you accuse someone of overinterpreting when they clearly didn’t do that, and saying you didn’t say that when you clearly did and maybe just not meant it. You are in fact partly responsible for how your words come across and not just for how you mean them.

I hope you understand how I mean it, and there are several examples in the same quote above that show the difference: sometimes, you used the words „to me“ before your statements, and like that it’s perfectly clear that it’s just your opinion and no one can fault you for that (some will of course try, but they‘d be wrong to do so). But when you look at the parts that GB criticised, you did not do that, as in, trying (intentionally or not) to present them as facts, which they aren’t.

Now of course, I don’t have the right to tell you how you word stuff, like I already said above and of course you can continue in whichever (non-harmful) communication style suits you best. But that doesn’t make GermanBangos callouts unjustified or overinterpreted, and you shouldn’t be surprised if it keeps happening. And then hopefully next time this happens you can just say „sorry I didn’t mean it like that, I meant ABC“ instead of trying to twist the blame on someone else who is merely going off of what exactly you said.

Honestly he even negated his point with the initial statement saying that "I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet" while stating that this would be a "bad sign for the contest" or whatever. Though how could it be hurtful for the reception of contest as whole if Sweden wins due to being a "televoting magnet". Like ... in that case the people out there voted for it ... why would the exact same people turn their backs on the contest then.

Either way. Thanks for trying to clarify things a little. I'm way too much of an old hag these days to explain myself in lengthy posts. Don't judge ... I'm turning 30 tomorrow haha.

 

[ESC94]

Honestly he even negated his point with the initial statement saying that "I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet" while stating that this would be a "bad sign for the contest" or whatever. Though how could it be hurtful for the reception of contest as whole if Sweden wins due to being a "televoting magnet". Like ... in that case the people out there voted for it ... why would the exact same people turn their backs on the contest then.

Either way. Thanks for trying to clarify things a little. I'm way too much of an old hag these days to explain myself in lengthy posts. Don't judge ... I'm turning 30 tomorrow haha.

Now you admitted that yourself.

 

[GermanBango]

Now you admitted that yourself.

 

[simori95]

Honestly he even negated his point with the initial statement saying that "I really think (or hope tbh) this won’t be a televote magnet" while stating that this would be a "bad sign for the contest" or whatever. Though how could it be hurtful for the reception of contest as whole if Sweden wins due to being a "televoting magnet". Like ... in that case the people out there voted for it ... why would the exact same people turn their backs on the contest then.

Either way. Thanks for trying to clarify things a little. I'm way too much of an old hag these days to explain myself in lengthy posts. Don't judge ... I'm turning 30 tomorrow haha.

Well in that case I don’t have much more time to make lengthy posts either and should make use of the time I have left, if by 29 you‘ve already grown out of it, I have one and a half years at max.

Expect an essay on how important the words „to me“ are in the Eurovision fandom in 3-5 Business days.