Contact us

SERBIA 2012 - Željko Joksimović - Nije ljubav stvar

How do you rate the entry?

  • 12

    125 33.2%
  • 10

    41 10.9%
  • 08

    38 10.1%
  • 07

    32 8.5%
  • 06

    32 8.5%
  • 05

    26 6.9%
  • 04

    11 2.9%
  • 03

    13 3.4%
  • 02

    4 1.1%
  • 01

    10 2.7%
  • 00

    45 11.9%

  • Total voters
    377

Matt

Admin Schmadmin
Staff member
Joined
June 1, 2009
Posts
23,479
Location
Los Angeles, USA
Isn't it kinda obvious that what people write in here are indeed opinions? (well when it comes to subjective matters that is) ? :mrgreen:

Anyways, we won a battle today but not the war :twisted: :lol:

Right, I'm just pointing that there is a difference between having an opinion and saying the contest is dying due to the language thing.

So to clarify your statement, it is only dying for you, figuratively speaking and not literally.
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
Right, I'm just pointing that there is a difference between having an opinion and saying the contest is dying due to the language thing.

So to clarify your statement, it is only dying for you, figuratively speaking and not literally.

I'm a little over-dramatic yes :lol:

So for everyone who didn't get it: Yes it's obviously MY opinion... (although I don't think clarification is needed but ok then).
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
No, this is EUROvision not ANGLOvision.

Yes, but if you look at the individual European charts, the vast majority of songs is in English, so why can't Eurovision be a reflection of that? I think it is a mistake to think that you cannot represent one's cultural in a different language but your own. I am all for freedom of choice, and if Serbia decides not to sing in English: awesome. However, let every country make its own choice. In my home country The Netherlands, it is so focused on the UK and US, it is almost unnatural not to allow them to sing in English. And if you want to win Eurovision, you better sing in English, because your chances are a lot better. ;)
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
Yes, but if you look at the individual European charts, the vast majority of songs is in English, so why can't Eurovision be a reflection of that? I think it is a mistake to think that you cannot represent one's cultural in a different language but your own. I am all for freedom of choice, and if Serbia decides not to sing in English: awesome. However, let every country make its own choice. In my home country The Netherlands, it is so focused on the UK and US, it is almost unnatural not to allow them to sing in English. And if you want to win Eurovision, you better sing in English, because your chances are a lot better. ;)

Yeah, if you look at the actual individual charts you'll notice it's not actually as you may believe all the time. It all depends on which country.

But I don't see Eurovision as a sort of confirmation of what's internationally trendy at the moment, although I do support modern music in the contest of course, but more as a contest of representing your country (which is really what the concept is about).

What's on the charts from international artists are not interesting, it's the local music scene that is interesting imo. The countries are not representing USA or UK right? (which dominates the charts worldwide), so how would sending something reflective of hits from these countries reflect their own music scene then? I don't really get it.

In Serbia most local artists sing in Serbian, so naturally that reflects more the Serbian music scene than English would do?
 

Scooby

Well-known member
Joined
October 1, 2009
Posts
8,395
Location
Moon
This was expected decision, good decision Željko.

And if you want to win Eurovision, you better sing in English, because your chances are a lot better.

Why you think that ordinary Europeans who watch Eurovision understand English?
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
And if you want to win Eurovision, you better sing in English, because your chances are a lot better. ;)

And you think this is a good thing? Sending a safe middle of the road pop song also helps you, so you suggestion would be more or those to secure a potential win?

And also, there's a wrong assumption about the overall English knowledge in Europe, in some countries English is not even third language.
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
What's on the charts from international artists are not interesting, it's the local music scene that is interesting imo.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. In The Netherlands for example, most local artists sing in English too, so it would be weird for them not be allowed to sing in English at the ESC. It is all about the freedom to choose that. And I think that you can still represent a country in a language other than your own. It is 2012, and English has become as easy to express yourself than your own language. And it is only fair that ESC has adapted to that.
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
Yes, that is what I was referring to. In The Netherlands for example, most local artists sing in English too, so it would be weird for them not be allowed to sing in English at the ESC. It is all about the freedom to choose that. And I think that you can still represent a country in a language other than your own. It is 2012, and English has become as easy to express yourself than your own language. And it is only fair that ESC has adapted to that.

That's the case in Sweden aswell (although there's a trend-break in where more and more hits are actually in Swedish now). Then we have Denmark where almost a majority of the local hits are actually in Denmark (although being western/northern).

I don't think ESC should represent the global music scene, I think it should represent the local music scenes, otherwise what's the point of representing countries if the songs aren't representing? You mean all countries should send Rihanna, Adele and Gaga copycats!?

If people want their international English language-hits, why even bother about ESC then, because clearly there's no interest in getting to know the local markets?

Btw aren't you American? Or why Netherlands? I'm confused :lol:
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
And you think this is a good thing? Sending a safe middle of the road pop song also helps you, so you suggestion would be more or those to secure a potential win?

Yes, that is a very good thing! And a song in English is not necessarily a "middle of the road" pop song. I think the winners of recent years were quite creative and unique. I like hearing songs in different languages, but you also cannot shut your eyes for reality, and just look at the fact: before the language-rule was abolished, Ireland, Malta and the UK pretty much dominated the top 5, every single year, amounting to 4 Irish victories and 1 UK victory in the 90s alone. And how many times have they won since then? Also: since that rule was abolished, only once has a non-English song won. So yes, it does provide a fairer chance to countries where English is not an official language.

And also, there's a wrong assumption about the overall English knowledge in Europe, in some countries English is not even third language.

But in most countries it is. And on the whole, English is at least better known than any other language. Also, I am not saying that everybody should sing in English, I am just advocating the free choice to do so.
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Depends on where you are, that's a Western/Northern European biased assumption, it's not really accurate.

Yes, it is: this includes Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, where English may not be as dominant as in other parts of the continent, it still outranks any other language if you add it all up.
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
I don't think ESC should represent the global music scene, I think it should represent the local music scenes, otherwise what's the point of representing countries if the songs aren't representing?

That's where we disagree: I think a song in English can perfectly well represent a country's local music scene.

You mean all countries should send Rihanna, Adele and Gaga copycats!?

No I do not mean that. Like I said: most recent winners have been very original and I don't see Lady GaGa pulling off a "Fairytale" anytime soon.

Btw aren't you American? Or why Netherlands? I'm confused :lol:

I was born in The Netherlands, but I live in the U.S.
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
Yes, that is a very good thing! And a song in English is not necessarily a "middle of the road" pop song. I think the winners of recent years were quite creative and unique. I like hearing songs in different languages, but you also cannot shut your eyes for reality, and just look at the fact: before the language-rule was abolished, Ireland, Malta and the UK pretty much dominated the top 5, every single year, amounting to 4 Irish victories and 1 UK victory in the 90s alone. And how many times have they won since then? Also: since that rule was abolished, only once has a non-English song won. So yes, it does provide a fairer chance to countries where English is not an official language.

Basically you just proved the juries English biasism right there, because back in the days juries decided the whole outcome, and they preferred English (I mean they had all these choices, but mostly went for English anyways). When televoting was introduced, although English still dominating, you could see styles and languages ending up in high positions that were almost always overlooked by the juries.

What reality? The world may be globalized but we're still countries with our own languages and music scenes, and in the case of Serbia, most of their own popular acts almost never sung in English, so you think it's representative of them to send it to ESC? To satisfy who exactly? I thought they should represent Serbia and not the global music scene?

But in most countries it is. And on the whole, English is at least better known than any other language. Also, I am not saying that everybody should sing in English, I am just advocating the free choice to do so.

I'm not sure about most countries, but in Europe as a whole yes, and so? My own opinion on this issue is that if someone has so little interest in other languages and music styles than what's mass-produced by the US/UK/Sweden to the whole world, then maybe Eurovision really is not the best show? Now don't get me wrong, I welcome as many fans of this contest as possible, but I can't really mix being a fan of this concept and in the meantime asking for less diversity (less local) and more "global mainstream".
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
Yes, it is: this includes Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, where English may not be as dominant as in other parts of the continent, it still outranks any other language if you add it all up.

I like to look at countries individually and not add it up, as afterall countries vote individually in this contest and not as a bunch.

So in that case, I'm not really sure about English really being the most known.
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
That's where we disagree: I think a song in English can perfectly well represent a country's local music scene.

So tell me how does English represent a local music scene where almost no act sings in English in the first place and where all hits in English are from other countries and not from their own? Also, if the singer never really sung in English, how is he representative of himself even if he suddenly sings in a language he never really sung in before?

If a country's local music scene is filled with local acts singing in English, then for sure it also represent that country's music scene, but in this very case... not so much.
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
When televoting was introduced, although English still dominating, you could see styles and languages ending up in high positions that were almost always overlooked by the juries.

Even though I welcome the combination of jury + televote, I cannot see the outcome as being so different. English is still by far the dominant language, and that is one thing that has remained unchanged. And that proves my point that it is good to at least have that choice, because apparently most countries value that.

we're still countries with our own languages and music scenes, and in the case of Serbia, most of their own popular acts almost never sung in English, so you think it's representative of them to send it to ESC?

I literally said that I think it is awesome that Serbia sings in Serbian. But maybe you missed that one. ;)

in the meantime asking for less diversity (less local) and more "global mainstream".

Again: I don't see singing in English as being the same as "global mainstream". The recent winners were pretty unique imo, and have very little to do with bland generic U.S./UK pop music.
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
I like to look at countries individually and not add it up, as afterall countries vote individually in this contest and not as a bunch.

So in that case, I'm not really sure about English really being the most known.

So, if it's not English, what language would be the most well-known throughout Europe?
 

JustinCase

Member
Joined
February 21, 2012
Posts
207
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
If a country's local music scene is filled with local acts singing in English, then for sure it also represent that country's music scene, but in this very case... not so much.

I referred to The Netherlands as an example and yes: local acts there often sing locally in English. And I know that in many European countries you see the same thing, so I don't see it as such an issue. But it brings me back to my main point: it needs to be a free choice. I never liked the EBU to decide for another country what language would be the best way to express themselves. That is up that country alone.
 

A-lister

Veteran
Joined
December 28, 2009
Posts
32,825
I literally said that I think it is awesome that Serbia sings in Serbian. But maybe you missed that one. ;)

I may have missed that ;)

Again: I don't see singing in English as being the same as "global mainstream". The recent winners were pretty unique imo, and have very little to do with bland generic U.S./UK pop music.

It depends, if there's almost no artist in your own scene singing in English, and you never really done it yourself, then for sure it's not really a representative or natural thing to just suddenly do so.

2011: Bland generic Swedish produced middle-of the road pop ballad in English.
2010: Although quite original in Eurovision terms, this was basically Germany's take at BritPop (Lily Allen comes to mind).
2009: Finally something local, but of course in English...
2008: A R&B-pop ballad heavily inspired by the sound of Timbaland and such, not really "Russian" ... most Russian acts (including Dima himself) sings in Russian, not English... oh wait.. was this even made by Russians? Nope..

I am not really sure if we've watched the same contest ... xshrug
 
Top Bottom