Russia RUSSIA 2016 - Sergey Lazarev - You Are The Only One

[Chorizo]

I think gay fans and everyone who cares about LGBT rights should not vote for Russia because of the Russian homophobia. Russia hosting would be a total disaster and a big problem for political reasons.

Barei is absolutely right.

 

[tuorem]

I think gay fans and everyone who cares about LGBT rights should not vote for Russia because of the Russian homophobia. Russia hosting would be a total disaster and a big problem for political reasons.

Barei is absolutely right.

Will we move on one day and leave these basic activist's reflections behind?

It's nice to care about LGBT people but it doesn't have anything to do with Eurovision. These loud gay fans and reporters we hear campaign against Russia every year at the contest are just a bunch of selfish idiots tbh:

1) this isn't an appropriate place to bring politics to that event while they regret it's highly politicized already.
2) what's the use of stimatizing and being mean/unwelcoming to a Russian singer or Russian people? Are they responsible for all that? No.
3) if they are so into rights, they'd better look at the bigger picture and defend human rights, that are imho far more essential than LGBT's only. And consistency should apply: Belarus or Azerbaijan are perfectly fine for these people?

As for the upcoming disaster, that's true, 2009 was an apocalyptic edition as far as I recall If Russia wins, nothing will happen. At least, it'll be the same as seven years ago, that is a good show with lots of means.

Sorry, but I had to react to your post, this No LGBT rights = boycott principle is just absurd and unworthy of you. As I said before, Russia is the perfect punching bag, that's incredible.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Yeah, I think that if the gay people constantly repeat that Russia is bad, the Russians wouldn't really fall in love with the LGBT community. Nobody likes to hear that their country is bad. And specially not proud people like the Russians. I think this whole idea behind shaming Russia is doing no good to the LGBT people inside Russia because the image of crybabies could/will affect them as well and they could/will become easy targets of homophobia and hatred.

Hatred provokes even more hatred.

 

[tuorem]

Yeah, I think that if the gay people constantly repeat that Russia is bad, the Russians wouldn't really fall in love with the LGBT community. Nobody likes to hear that their country is bad. And specially not proud people like the Russians. I think this whole idea behind shaming Russia is doing no good to the LGBT people inside Russia because the image of crybabies could/will affect them as well and they could/will become easy targets of homophobia and hatred.

Hatred provokes even more hatred.

Exactly, it's ironic to advocate tolerance and then showing hatred or disrespect towards a particular country in order to lecture them in this regard. As you said, it won't improve the situation one bit. I feel sorry for Russian people who actually bear the brunt of this. Russians aren't more homophobic than other peoples in Europe, it's not because some guys humiliated Hovi or that the government isn't LGBT-friendly that the whole country shares that opinion.

 

[ag89]

Homophobic folks in Russia (or anywhere else) are not different from all these russophobic folks here. Generalization on both sides is a great way to create hatred and I see you are going forward. Well done fans, well done, if that makes you happy I feel sorry for you.

But I have to admit something (it's also probably based on my own prejudice), I am quite shocked to see so much hatred from gay people here. Let's leave Russia behind, I'm talking about all other things here and somewhere else. Why did I expect gay people are more friendly, lovely, and so on? That's because media is showing that. Happy bla bla. But no! These people are equally smart, stupid, open, conservative, like anyone else.

So I really appreciate this forum because it helps to me open my eyes. Thank you. Also, that shows me again why so many gay people don't want to be part of any organized gay or gay-rights organizations. It's because your own agenda also follows certain ideologies. You are not about gays rights then at all.

Another example is podforum where people discuss refugees etc. I just couldn't believe what kind of shits gay people can write. Even hardcore right-wing folks would be impressed. Maybe you should hang together?!

It is so strange to see hatred from the people who feel hated and put on side in many countries around the globe. I am shocked you don't feel any sympathy for all different kinds of people who struggle from one country to another.

And finally, when you blame Russia, but not a specific group of people, you blame all gays living in Russia as well. Do you really think you send support to gays in Russia when you write shits about Russia?! No! Gays in Russia will start to hate you. Do you know what do you actually produce?

And it's not only Russia. Comments I read, basically about any country here, shows human sheep can be raised everywhere.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Homophobic folks in Russia (or anywhere else) are not different from all these russophobic folks here. Generalization on both sides is a great way to create hatred and I see you are going forward. Well done fans, well done, if that makes you happy I feel sorry for you.

But I have to admit something (it's also probably based on my own prejudice), I am quite shocked to see so much hatred from gay people here. Let's leave Russia behind, I'm talking about all other things here and somewhere else. Why did I expect gay people are more friendly, lovely, and so on? That's because media is showing that. Happy bla bla. But no! These people are equally smart, stupid, open, conservative, like anyone else.

So I really appreciate this forum because it helps to me open my eyes. Thank you. Also, that shows me again why so many gay people don't want to be part of any organized gay or gay-rights organizations. It's because your own agenda also follows certain ideologies. You are not about gays rights then at all.

Another example is podforum where people discuss refugees etc. I just couldn't believe what kind of shits gay people can write. Even hardcore right-wing folks would be impressed. Maybe you should hang together?!

It is so strange to see hatred from the people who feel hated and put on side in many countries around the globe. I am shocked you don't feel any sympathy for all different kinds of people who struggle from one country to another.

And finally, when you blame Russia, but not a specific group of people, you blame all gays living in Russia as well. Do you really think you send support to gays in Russia when you write shits about Russia?! No! Gays in Russia will start to hate you. Do you know what do you actually produce?

And it's not only Russia. Comments I read, basically about any country here, shows human sheep can be raised everywhere.

That's what a real Balkan person would say. I agree with you on 100%. Before interacting with gay people in online forums, I thought that they are nice and friendly. Didn't turn out that way at all. I can't even count the shit I have been told by gay people for those 10 years now since I follow the contest more intensely. A lot of them were xenophobic slurs. Of course I'm not saying that all gay people are like that but some of them are. Does that mean that all of the gays are drama-queens. Definitely not. But it would be really dumb to act like this problem (inside the community) doesn't exist. I'm saying this as an outsider who just likes to observe things. I know some people from Russia who are gay and were in Denmark at ESC 2014 who were attacked physically and verbally by Danish people because they were waving their Russian flags after the first semi-final (when Russia qualified). Disgusting behavior from the hosts.

Sergey Lazarev doesn't deserve the hate he gets. It's so sad to read all of those comments.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Also, I'd like to add that I'm not saying that Russia isn't homophobic. It obviously is, however, we have a saying in the Bulgaria that goes like this " Една лъжа повторена сто пъти става истина" which means "1 lie repeated 100 times becomes a reality". What I'm trying to say is that if you constantly repeat to a Russian person who isn't homophobic that he is a homophobe, eventually, (s)he will become a homophobe. A person isn't born a homophobe, (s)he becomes one.

 

[hugh]

Exactly, it's ironic to advocate tolerance and then showing hatred or disrespect towards a particular country in order to lecture them in this regard. As you said, it won't improve the situation one bit. I feel sorry for Russian people who actually bear the brunt of this. Russians aren't more homophobic than other peoples in Europe, it's not because some guys humiliated Hovi or that the government isn't LGBT-friendly that the whole country shares that opinion.

Really though?

 

[nikolay_BG]

Really though?

Yeah. It's just that the Russian homophobes are the most vocal homophobes which gives the impression that Russian people are homophobic. In reality, nobody cares about gay people in Russia.

 

[Ritararita]

Also, I'd like to add that I'm not saying that Russia isn't homophobic. It obviously is, however, we have a saying in the Bulgaria that goes like this " Една лъжа повторена сто пъти става истина" which means "1 lie repeated 100 times becomes a reality".

Well... with all respect to Bulgarian sayings, the quoted sentence was actually a well-known mantra of Joseph Goebbels. His propaganda was built upon it.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Well... with all respect to Bulgarian sayings, the quoted sentence was actually a well-known mantra of Joseph Goebbels. His propaganda was built upon it.

Could be. Bulgaria was a pro-Nazi country in WW2 times so this saying could stay in our society after that. Doesn't mean that it's not true though.

 

[GermanBango]

Here we go again ...
Didn't we already agree that the "Russia is a homophobic wasp's nest"-People and the "Everything is fine in Russia"-folks can't agree on that topic?
I don't get why people tend to only see black and white - There aren't only these extremes, guys.
Those people saying that all Russians are homophobic are obviously as wrong as those who claim that EVERYTHING is alright in Russia. There is a middle ground between these two options, believe it or not.
We can discuss those things to death, we can fight about that, we can argue about what should be done or what shouldn't be done regarding certain concerns but what for?
Just keep calm and do whatever feels right for you. If you're able to leave politics/social aspects aside and if you like the song and/or the artist, cheer and vote for it - No one has the right to judge you. If you feel uncomfortable with a possible Russian victory because of the politics it's fine too - Just go ahead vote for any other country.
Let's try and stay respectful this time - This discussion tends to become pretty damn ugly. BTW can we please stop this "Anti-Russian-Propaganda"- and "Pro-Russian-Propaganda"-stuff ... Why does a personal opinion always needs to be influenced by some sort of propaganda? That's just ridiculous.

 

[nikolay_BG]

LOL, let's keep it real, probably Hovi Star's passport was expired and he tried to mask his stupidity with "homophobia". We don't exactly know if it was torn down in general. They showed some torn passport but we don't know if it's really Hovi's passport or not. We still don't know what exactly happened in the airport. Till now we have only Hovi and Barei's words and tbh, they turned out not to be the most credible sources in general. Too much talking without any evidences. For me this story is fishy and I don't believe anyone involved in this situation.

TBH, the biggest loser from this whole drama is Sergey and he's the only party I feel bad about.

 

[Chorizo]

Will we move on one day and leave these basic activist's reflections behind?

It's nice to care about LGBT people but it doesn't have anything to do with Eurovision. These loud gay fans and reporters we hear campaign against Russia every year at the contest are just a bunch of selfish idiots tbh:

1) this isn't an appropriate place to bring politics to that event while they regret it's highly politicized already.
2) what's the use of stimatizing and being mean/unwelcoming to a Russian singer or Russian people? Are they responsible for all that? No.
3) if they are so into rights, they'd better look at the bigger picture and defend human rights, that are imho far more essential than LGBT's only. And consistency should apply: Belarus or Azerbaijan are perfectly fine for these people?

As for the upcoming disaster, that's true, 2009 was an apocalyptic edition as far as I recall If Russia wins, nothing will happen. At least, it'll be the same as seven years ago, that is a good show with lots of means.

Sorry, but I had to react to your post, this No LGBT rights = boycott principle is just absurd and unworthy of you. As I said before, Russia is the perfect punching bag, that's incredible.

Since Russia is allowed to use Eurovision for propaganda purposes, the fans and anyone else is allowed to attack Russia for political reasons. Russia simply deserves to be attacked.
Yes, it's that simple.

Last year, Russia sent a peace song that was intended to distract from the fact that Russia annexed Crimea and started a war with Ukraine because the president, a pro-Russian puppet, was ousted from power. So being against Russia isn't just about gay rights. It is in fact about human rights.

Since Russia was booed by gay fans last year, they decided to send a gay-friendly song this year, to make superficial gay fans cheer for Russia. This is once more sinister propaganda and it should be attacked and exposed.

I think the EBU shouldn't even let countries like Russia participate in the first place. You wouldn't hear me support Russia's pals like Belarus or any other random dictatorship either, you can be sure of that. At least Belarus and Azerbaijan don't send political songs. (Yes, I remember the absurd I Love Belarus. )

Leaving Russia alone would mean that they could get away with their propaganda undisturbed. Russia brought politics to the contest first and there needs to be a response. I really hope that Russia will be booed again this year. Sergey is Putin's propaganda puppet and the majority of the Russians support Putin and his awful politics, so it is justified to boo the country.

Furthermore, Russia brings a cheap and dated crap song to the contest. The song alone is reason enough why Russia shouldn't win.
As you say, if Russia wins, the contest will be back to what it was after Russia's last victory. That wouldn't be progress, would it? It would just confirm the stereotype that Eurovision is a camp contest without any connection to the contemporary music scene and that it's just something to be laughed at. I know that there are fans who like Eurovision as a camp contest and they are not interested in a serious music competition but I for one would like Eurovision to be more than that.

Just imagine random people that find out who the winner is after the contest. If Russia is the winner, all negative stereotypes will be confirmed. This is simply not a song that is good and modern and it would be an epic flop outside the ex-USSR just like Believe, which is one of the worst and least deserving Eurovision winners in the history of the contest. If Russia at least had a good song, it wouldn't be half as bad but they are the bookmakers' favorite with dated unbearable cheese that people only enjoy ironically or because they like campy music. Camp can be fun, I admit that, but it's an unworthy winner if you desire a legitimate song contest. I don't mind having camp in the contest and I can enjoy camp for what it is but having a song like this as the favorite suggests that the British perception of Eurovision is absolutely right.

If Russia weren't the favorite to win, it would be easier to ignore. It is disturbing that a country like Russia is the favorite with a song like this. If it wins, it will be because of the Russian diaspora, political voting from Russia's minions neighbors and because of joke and troll voters, not because of the quality of the song.

 

[Chorizo]

Yeah, I think that if the gay people constantly repeat that Russia is bad, the Russians wouldn't really fall in love with the LGBT community. Nobody likes to hear that their country is bad. And specially not proud people like the Russians. I think this whole idea behind shaming Russia is doing no good to the LGBT people inside Russia because the image of crybabies could/will affect them as well and they could/will become easy targets of homophobia and hatred.

Hatred provokes even more hatred.

The Russian public is homophobic anyway, no matter if gay people treat them nicely or not. I want to spoil their fun by booing them. If they get angry, I cherish their emotions.

If someone behaves and thinks like most Russians, they deserve to be harassed. The Russians only respond to force. Appeasement doesn't work with them. Just look at the political situation. The only thing that works with them is showing them their limits.

 

[Chorizo]

Exactly, it's ironic to advocate tolerance and then showing hatred or disrespect towards a particular country in order to lecture them in this regard. As you said, it won't improve the situation one bit. I feel sorry for Russian people who actually bear the brunt of this. Russians aren't more homophobic than other peoples in Europe, it's not because some guys humiliated Hovi or that the government isn't LGBT-friendly that the whole country shares that opinion.

Tolerance doesn't imply tolerating the intolerant. Intolerance must be fought, not tolerated.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

Bitchy and diva behavior may work in Western Europe but it definitely doesn't work in the East. Current homophobia in Russia is a direct result from the cultural isolation that Eastern Europeans experienced behind the Iron Curtain. Just 25 years ago even Eurovision was banned in ex-USSR. Isolating Russia again wont really change anything for the LGBT people inside Russia but it will definitely give birth to more and more homophobes. Most of the homophobes in Russia are older people who grew up in the times of cultural and political isolation while today, 25 years after falling of the Berlin Wall, we have a new Russian and Eastern European generation that is more opened to new and different stuff like pride parades for example.

Assuming that the whole Russian population made up by 140 million people are homophobic just shows your prejudices against Eastern European people.

I never understood how can you fight homophobia with xenophobia anyway. It's bizarre and unproductive.

I don't want to comment that topic anymore. This is a topic about Sergey Lazarev and his song, not about LGBT rights in Russia.

 

[Gordon_Shumway]

(...) If you feel uncomfortable with a possible Russian victory because of the politics it's fine too - Just go ahead vote for any other country. (...) Let's try and stay respectful this time (...)

xgood
I agree with almost everything you wrote in the above posting. I want to add two little thoughts:

From last year's results I conclude that the people who dislike Russian entries for political reasons must be a very very small minority. I mean, Russia was mocking the whole continent by sending a friendly, blonde woman singing about love and peace 3 not too long after the annexation of Crimea. The fact that she ended up on second place proves that the ESC audience actually does not care about politics at all.

On the other hand I can understand that good ESC results for Russia might as well be interpreted as a sign of approval and sympathy for the country, its leader and its inhabitants. And this might have been the motivation for the Russian decision to win this year (and they will win no matter how much some of us doubt it...).

All just my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Brandt]

This thread introduces 150 pages already, yet more than 100 pages are only related to Russian politics.

 

[tuorem]

Tolerance doesn't imply tolerating the intolerant. Intolerance must be fought, not tolerated.

No, being tolerant is being tolerant, it doesn't mean forcing people who don't think like you to adopt your beliefs. Eurovision is supposedly about music, not about what society should be or think in a country. Russia has indeed spread propaganda through some of their recent entries, but organisers have basically done the same exact thing with the What If introduction in Austria, the rainbow flags appearing during Polina's performance and so on...

Tolerance doesn't stigmatize people, and I've seen none of that among those so-called pro-LGBT tolerant people.

Seriously Chorizo, I can't answer your other post properly because you are mixing everything up, here are some points I wanted to express though:

-It's not because a country spread propaganda once or twice that everyone should "attack" it forever, is it? Belarus also did it, so what? a whole country does not deserve to be stigmatized because of that imo.

-You support the booing, well... I hope you're aware that that's disrespectful and that it won't change anything to both the results and the situation in Russia. Nothing justifies that, and I didn't know everyone supported Putin blindly, thank you for enlighting me on that point.

-Finally, you give your opinion about the Russian entry on the purely musical aspect. You don't like it and that's fine. But you can't blame Russia if the majority of viewers in Europe votes for them and makes them win this year You might have noticed that people didn't care that much last year, as Polina was their second favourite. And you shouldn't blame them either for the musical quality of next year in case they win because other countries simply have to do their thing instead of copying what is successful. Copycats should be blamed, yes.

To sum up, I get that you can't stand Russia. Fair enough, I just find it sad that - being an ESC fan - you actually encourage this general bashing going on. I never said Russia was the land of carebears, but - apart from the government - Russian people aren't any different than other peoples of Europe in terms of values and beliefs and tolerance. A bunch of retarded blokes does not equal a whole nation tbh.

I'll end that here because yes, it's truly annoying to tackle politics politics politics only in this thread :?