Post Eurovision Discussion

Matt · May 7, 2021

GRAND FINAL LIVE

DAY 1 - 16 LIVE STREAMS

spinachpie · May 25, 2021

I think there is some uber over analysis on Malta.

The song was GREAT. That video was powerful and I fell in love with it as soon as I heard it. I always disliked Maltese entries before and bought into no hype. The actual song, was powerful, brilliantly produced, with a fantastic singer.

In the final, the song did well. However there were a lot of competing songs in the catchy, pop vibe. Also the staging was kinda dull, which didn't help.

Couple that with Italy, Ukraine, France, also being really strong and you can perhaps see why it didn't do better.

I don't think it was anymore hyped than Italy, France, Switzerland.

GermanBango · May 25, 2021

Oh well my boyfriend is officially hooked. He asked me this morning if he could borrow my Eurovision CD. The cult is growing muahahahaha. xheat

PollyWantsACracker · May 25, 2021

spinachpie said:
I think there is some uber over analysis on Malta.

The song was GREAT. That video was powerful and I fell in love with it as soon as I heard it. I always disliked Maltese entries before and bought into no hype. The actual song, was powerful, brilliantly produced, with a fantastic singer.

In the final, the song did well. However there were a lot of competing songs in the catchy, pop vibe. Also the staging was kinda dull, which didn't help.

Couple that with Italy, Ukraine, France, also being really strong and you can perhaps see why it didn't do better.

I don't think it was anymore hyped than Italy, France, Switzerland.

Italy and Swiss didn't pay for advertising.

Malta, France and Norway did.

Bookies therefore made expectations for Malta, Fr and Nor according to not only the juries, but also payed marketing.

Thus the hype that had not reflected in televote.

IMO the contestants should learn that subtle but direct and personal channels of communication with fans or audience are the best way to reach out.

Also, I think there is a very simple reason for Malta, Cyprus, San Marino, Israel and Azeri failing.

They sounded "outdated" and "already heard".

Closer look into top 5 of televote shows that all these songs were very different from the rest, and even very different one from the other.

Ianp16 · May 25, 2021

Miloutchi said:
I don’t know if someone has mentioned it already, but Italy would also have won with the old way of voting. With a 1 point difference. How insane would that voting result have been hahaha.

Now this is a very strong argument for the old voting system to be back! How is this worked out?

Ianp16 · May 25, 2021

spinachpie said:
I think there is some uber over analysis on Malta.

The song was GREAT. That video was powerful and I fell in love with it as soon as I heard it. I always disliked Maltese entries before and bought into no hype. The actual song, was powerful, brilliantly produced, with a fantastic singer.

In the final, the song did well. However there were a lot of competing songs in the catchy, pop vibe. Also the staging was kinda dull, which didn't help.

Couple that with Italy, Ukraine, France, also being really strong and you can perhaps see why it didn't do better.

I don't think it was anymore hyped than Italy, France, Switzerland.

Had Malta's entry been entered 5-10 years ago it would have won by a large margin, I feel. I thought it was fantastic, personally.

jatojo · May 25, 2021

My wish for the future is a ban on pre-recorded backing vocals directly underneath the singer's vocal. This is used more and more (check out Norway, Estonia, Greece etc), and it is not fair to the singers who don't use it or use it less (the UK, Denmark, Malta etc).

hawadharma · May 26, 2021

I wanted to post in the Italy thread but it was locked unfortunately.

I just casually playing my whole music library and suddenly something from Måneskin played.
"Moriro Da Re". Turns out it was in FSC August 2018, and I scored it 10 points. I really didn't remember the band but I loved this song.

Note: My

points that edition was

- Omer Adam - Shnei Meshugaim.

Carian · May 26, 2021

Ianp16 said:
Now this is a very strong argument for the old voting system to be back! How is this worked out?

In my opinion, televote would work perfectly if all songs were awarded points from 1 to 25/26 depending on the number of finalists. This system would eliminate the effects of block-voting and also the humiliating zeros. Someone published two or three pages ago how the results would have looked like if this system was in place this year. Italy would still be a winner and I honestly believe that that order perfectly reflects the reality. The current system basically rewards only 10 songs with points, which increases the effect of block-voting, raises the chances that someone will pay to people in small countries to vote for certain country etc. Also juries are not immune to prejudice and political voting (Georgia putting Sergey Lazarev last in 2019???) and as I argued on the other page, juries can be easily manipulated into thinking that certain songs are favorite to win, if a country invests a lot of money into hype and ads. Imagine: now the 11th country in both, jury vote and televote, are left without points, even though they have beaten 15 other participants, yet they are only 10 places behind the winner. That is unfair in my opinion. If all countries were given points in each televote of each country, that would change everything: in a final with 25 participants, the 11th-placed would get 15 points, which is the only fair thing to do, cuz right now they are thrown into the same pit with the 25th-placed. Right now, only top 10 countries get points, while almost two thirds are reduced to the same level. The current system is off as it is - the iconic "douze points" is a problem today. When it was created, there were 12-17 countries participating, today however, it is just plain wrong and in my view it is also the origin of all these scandals, manipulations, shocks etc.

NikolaiMoller · May 26, 2021

PollyWantsACracker said:
Italy and Swiss didn't pay for advertising.

Malta, France and Norway did.

Bookies therefore made expectations for Malta, Fr and Nor according to not only the juries, but also payed marketing.

Thus the hype that had not reflected in televote.

IMO the contestants should learn that subtle but direct and personal channels of communication with fans or audience are the best way to reach out.

Also, I think there is a very simple reason for Malta, Cyprus, San Marino, Israel and Azeri failing.

They sounded "outdated" and "already heard".

Closer look into top 5 of televote shows that all these songs were very different from the rest, and even very different one from the other.

So you are saying that those songs sounded outdated and "already heard"?????

How about Italy and Finland???? I feel like I've heard them multiple times before.

The negativity against powerful pop songs this year is........

innou · May 26, 2021

jatojo said:
My wish for the future is a ban on pre-recorded backing vocals directly underneath the singer's vocal. This is used more and more (check out Norway, Estonia, Greece etc), and it is not fair to the singers who don't use it or use it less (the UK, Denmark, Malta etc).

I'd remove Greece from the list of those having pre-recorded vocals. The only pre-recorded vocals were the choir ''ooh oooh ooooh''s, the rest was her Dutch vocal coach from backstage, who was live.

jatojo · May 26, 2021

innou said:
I'd remove Greece from the list of those having pre-recorded vocals. The only pre-recorded vocals were the choir ''ooh oooh ooooh''s, the rest was her Dutch vocal coach from backstage, who was live.

Well, okay, but in the future, I need to be able to see the persons who are singing. Hidden background vocals are annoying and unfair.

harey · May 26, 2021

@PollyWantsACracker I got several times the Tout l'univers music video as advertisement while watching videos on YouTube! I don't know if it's from the delegation or music label but anyway it doesn't matter to me that a country advertise it's entry, it's more the constant spamming which may be annoying.

mauve · May 26, 2021

Since the Italy thread is closed, I will put the reaction from our lovely vocal coach in here:

Mrm · May 26, 2021

mauve said:
Since the Italy thread is closed, I will put the reaction from our lovely vocal coach in here:

Hahahaha Mauve, Georgina the LEGEND! :lol:

How are you satisfied with overall results in the final dear mauve?
And with German jury and televoting in the final?
Do you like France in the end, do you like performance of France and visuals?

PollyWantsACracker · May 26, 2021

NikolaiMoller said:
So you are saying that those songs sounded outdated and "already heard"?????

How about Italy and Finland???? I feel like I've heard them multiple times before.

The negativity against powerful pop songs this year is........

New metal (Finland) and Progressive / Grunge Rock (Italy) were never heard on Eurovision thus far. And both genres got lost from the popular music media in past 15 yrs. So yes, in ESC format, they were something completely new.

(Please don't mention Lordi for a bad comparison, that was something nobody knows what was to this day)

Malta, Israel, Cyprus, San Marino, those are the songs we have heard over and over again for 15 yrs now on ESC and outside ESC.

And when it comes to quality of Finnish and Italian entry, we can discuss that. But only if you know rock and the subgenres these songs belong to, we could go in details with that. IMO one of those 2 entries is hillarious and the other is pure perfection.

And when it comes to pop which you like, I like as well, but it has to be good.

E.g. I rooted this year for Iceland. They had a great song (with bad vocals unfortunately, a jury -) and they did pretty fine with both the juries and the public.

To conclude - pop did not got threatened by this year's ESC. But bad pop and bop did. And that's OK.

Amethyst · May 26, 2021

mauve said:
Since the Italy thread is closed, I will put the reaction from our lovely vocal coach in here:

oh, the one that in her first reaction was confused about the word måneskin on the drums ... and now has problem understanding the lyrics translation.. 'kind of nonsensical ' but it doesn't matter 'cause 'it's rock 'n roll ' xcookie

... I mean... xfacepalm

mauve · May 26, 2021

Mrm said:
Hahahaha Mauve, Georgina the LEGEND!
How are you satisfied with overall results in the final dear mauve?
And with German jury and televoting in the final?
Do you like France in the end, do you like performance of France and visuals?

Georgina IS a legend indeed! xheart

Overall I couldn't be happier this year as my No. 1 won! xheat

That didn't happen since Rybak's Fairytale, so it was about time! But after the Jury results I had actually given up that Italy would win, but televoters decided right to give Maneskin many votes! xheya

For me in the end it was almost a win-win-situation as I loved France as well. I feel a little sorry for our wonderful Barbara, she also deserved to win. But there can only be one winner.
German Jury and televoting? I wasn't too fond of the Jury voting - it was too predictable to have France, Switzewrland and Malta above. I also don't understand why Cyprus was so high (4th place). There were so many other acts that deserved the place. Televoting was a bit better though I would have voted differently.

Have you been satisfied with the overall result, Mrm? Were you happy with the winner or disappointed?

PollyWantsACracker · May 26, 2021

Amethyst said:
oh, the one that in her first reaction was confused about the word måneskin on the drums ... and now has problem understanding the lyrics translation.. 'kind of nonsensical ' but it doesn't matter 'cause 'it's rock 'n roll ' ... I mean...

She is a nice lady, but for her a language / genre barrier is sth that prevents her to give an analysis. She is in that segment like a lay person, either likes it or doesn't.

mauve · May 26, 2021

Amethyst said:
oh, the one that in her first reaction was confused about the word måneskin on the drums ... and now has problem understanding the lyrics translation.. 'kind of nonsensical ' but it doesn't matter 'cause 'it's rock 'n roll ' ... I mean...

I was kind of surprised too when she didn't understand the lyrics. And as if rock 'n roll lyrics are all nonsensical!

But at least she changed her mind about the song and Maneskin. I like the way she reads music compared to "normal" reaction videos!

PollyWantsACracker · May 26, 2021

harey said:
@PollyWantsACracker I got several times the Tout l'univers music video as advertisement while watching videos on YouTube! I don't know if it's from the delegation or music label but anyway it doesn't matter to me that a country advertise it's entry, it's more the constant spamming which may be annoying.

Luckily, the Swiss version of a French entry circumvented me.

I hate literally payed media content online. Any type. Those pop ups that prevent me to read or listen what I want annoy me so much that out of principle I don't buy the products advertised like that. Nor do I vote based on that type of advertising.

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