Post Eurovision Discussion

Matt · May 7, 2021

GRAND FINAL LIVE

DAY 1 - 16 LIVE STREAMS

Gera11 · May 24, 2021

GermanBango said:
The juries are indeed direly needed when countries like only make it to the televoting Top 10 because of their neighbors and diaspora while actually only placing ~15th on average. I mean they got 73% of their points from just 5 countries ( )

Sure, Switzerland's 12 might be purely diasporic but "Loco loco" is a product of the local ex-Yugo music industry so I don't see the problem with their neighbours voting for music that is trending there? If anything it's more suspicious that

gave it 0 and

a measly 5.

Miloutchi · May 24, 2021

I keep reading “Post Eurovision Depression” instead of discussion and it makes the PED much more real.

GermanBango · May 24, 2021

Gera11 said:
Sure, Switzerland's 12 might be purely diasporic but "Loco loco" is a product of the local ex-Yugo music industry so I don't see the problem with their neighbours voting for music that is trending there? If anything it's more suspicious that gave it 0 and a measly 5.

Hmm idk man, it`s just a little "discouraging" if some countries can send whatever and will still get their base set of points just because they have many neighbors or whatever. I do get what you are saying and it does make sense but it just doesn`t feel right to me personally when a country that is ranked 15th on average suddenly ends up (much) higher because of just a few countries but yeah, that`s a flaw in the voting system imo. Anyways I`m (thankfully) not making the rules so :lol:

Ezio · May 24, 2021

Etanna said:
Czech media started reporting about the drug rumours featuring the phrase that the EBU is looking into this controversy. The EBU really messed this up, they should have firmly supported Måneskin. This just feeds the rumours... I hope the scandal will die down quickly, especially if Damiano really didn't take any drugs.

By the way, how come there isn't more footage of what they were doing? There must have been cameras everywhere and people filming on their phones. At that point, Italy was already doing quite well in the jury, wasn't it?

It's just appalling how Maneskin got besmeared from the moment they won. The press conference was quite something already. The Swedish journalist or blogger or whatever did not congratulate or compliment the band, but blatantly asked for a statement for the fake accusations the band was not even aware of at this point. And moderator then asked for more relevant questions.

It seems to me Italy is the nemesis of the Swedes since quite some time already, always besting them in the televote and holding the record for highest share of available t/v points in the year when they lost to the Swedes. Also on the live thread, the Swedish forumers were always quite salty about them. Of course, Italy is the threat to the throne of Eurovision authority that Sweden claims.

I am curious how RAI and Österdahl will work together from now and if they create a toxic or a productive working environment. My guess is that RAI would listen but then do their own thing.

GermanBango · May 24, 2021

Ezio said:
It's just appalling how Maneskin got besmeared from the moment they won. The press conference was quite something already. The Swedish journalist or blogger or whatever did not congratulate or compliment the band, but blatantly asked for a statement for the fake accusations the band was not even aware of at this point. And moderator then asked for more relevant questions.

It seems to me Italy is the nemesis of the Swedes since quite some time already, always besting them in the televote and holding the record for highest share of available t/v points in the year when they lost to the Swedes. Also on the live thread, the Swedish forumers were always quite salty about them. Of course, Italy is the threat to the throne of Eurovision authority that Sweden claims.

I am curious how RAI and Österdahl will work together from now and if they create a toxic or a productive working environment. My guess is that RAI would listen but then do their own thing.

Uhm that`s a little too much tinfoil hat stuff for my taste. Also you are pretty much doing some wild generalization here.
Do you know how journalism works these days? I`m actually working for a local newspaper and I can tell you that the rule number 1 is to always find a dramatic headline that gets people talking. Pretty sure that`s what the journalist you are referring to was trying to do. I don`t condone such behavior but that`s the world we are living in.

Ezio · May 24, 2021

GermanBango said:
The juries are indeed direly needed when countries like only make it to the televoting Top 10 because of their neighbors and diaspora while actually only placing ~15th on average. I mean they got 73% of their points from just 5 countries ( )

I think Austria and Switzerland should just blank, or at least half or quarter the Serbian televote. For me as an Austrian, it's just pissing me off that our votes and tastes are not represented in the vote, but the 12 points on the televote nowhere to be found on iTunes or Spotify.

I get that Lane Moje and Molitva achieved the 12 points, but Zauvijek Moja (2005) was the first indication that our televote is sold out, ever since, with few abberrations.

For 12 points in the televote just a few thousand votes are needed, in a year, when we are not in the Final, I would see 5 or 10k is enough for 12 points. Serbian diaspora in Vienna is roughly 100k. Let 1000 vote 20 times and they have an insurmountable lead against anyone else.

I am honestly oblivious about the fact we have so many non-EU citizens living here, but well.

Chorizo · May 24, 2021

spinachpie said:
With a third of the votes being counted for the juries, as well as more points from outside of the Top 10 votes from each country, that will happen anyway.

Ultimately the most popular song with the public should win. The juries are having too much influence on the winner.

With televoting only, the winner was never in question because of 'diaspora voting'. It was always the most popular song which won the televote.

It's not just about winning but also about qualifying from the semi-finals. That's when diaspora voting is having an even worse effect. I would be against changes that strengthen the diaspora vote. The televote can also favor bad songs because of the staging as seen in 2016, when Russia won the televote with a weak song because the staging was amazing. There are indeed huge problems with the juries as often discussed among the fans but lowering their influence would create other problems. We know from the 2000s what Eurovision without juries was like. I don't think that many people who take the contest seriously would like to go back to that. The jury system should rather be reformed in a different way, for example by changing the voting system, the number of jurors etc.

Lance Esgard said:
Fully agree with that. I would double the jurors if nothing else. I would consider altering the eligibility rules in some way. How I don't know.

I don't know if occupational requirements might be appropriate. Maybe some kind of screening test to see if they can evaluate vocal capacity across a range of genres? Or maybe to screen out jurors who appear to be unduly biased for or against a genre?

I think the biggest problem is that the broadcasters would be opposed to changes that are expensive and difficult to implement and at least some of the unqualified voting, like the support of certain countries, must surely have the support of the broadcasters as well. So I'm not too optimistic that we will get more qualified jurors this way.

esc87fan · May 25, 2021

I was thinking to myself what would have happened if Switzerland and France had each other's televote scores...

The margin of victory between Italy and France was only 25 points, with Switzerland another 67 points behind. Had Switzerland gotten the 251 points that France got, Italy still would have won, but with an even closer margin

Italy's total score: 524
Switzerland's score with France's televote points: 518
France's score with Switzerland's televote points: 415
Margin of victory for Italy: 6 points over Switzerland
Margin between 2nd and 3rd: 103 points

Uto · May 25, 2021

FilipFromSweden said:
Takeaways from this year:

- Host countries should stop trying to do some over-the-top comedy sketch, like the flops we saw in 2017 and 2018. The more subtle and down-sized comedy we saw this year, from Nikki, was funny and felt like enough. Let the entries be the entertainment.

I want to highlight this point. I predicted the Dutch would do this in talks with other forum members and they did. You simply add velocity to the show. Was very nice. It is rather unfortunate that we are going to Italy next which is known for the extremely tedious San Remo. I sincerely hope they push the Italians for dropping any unnecessary fluff.

And honestly, I wish they would just sign Nikkie as the standard host for ESC, because I can't imagine anyone being a better fit ever. What a delight.

lasse braun · May 25, 2021

the juries have made some weird votings!
throwing lithuania with no reason under the bus!

giving the ukraine a better but still lousy result.

(this is a perfect song also on stage! - shame on you jurys!)
again a blanche city lights deja vu!
it seems,that the jurys have big problems with the really good pop numbers - maybe too much people from television casting shows involved?
would the roop have received the same punishment already in 2020?
the very good thing is,that with italy we have a cool winnersong,who brings the ESC forward in many things and finland has assisted.
it seems much more people like rock than expected. :mrgreen:

i hope we will see & hear in the future more progressive sounds - maybe also some bigger names?
more courage to ethnic sounds like ukraine & russia and please let out the boring copycats.

what was a a real surprise for me?
france third in televoting. xrose

san marino 20+.
low and very low juryvotes for ukraine & lithuania. xshock1:

but the biggest (bad) surprise was,that a copycat song has won the juryvoting - that was embarrassing. xwall

randajad · May 25, 2021

Gera11 said:
Sure, Switzerland's 12 might be purely diasporic but "Loco loco" is a product of the local ex-Yugo music industry so I don't see the problem with their neighbours voting for music that is trending there? If anything it's more suspicious that gave it 0 and a measly 5.

Totally agree, I am starting to act like a parrot, but they are really big here, all of their songs were trending, a lot of people listens to them and this would not happen only if their song was really really bad.

spinachpie · May 25, 2021

Trece said:
Enjoy

My favourite meme from this year. I still laugh at it when putting it on

John1 · May 25, 2021

The way Moldova would have slayed this year with this masterpiece. I don't have any doubt on Natalia's ability when it comes to singing, but Sugar didn't fit her at all and it showed

Simon · May 25, 2021

Oh hey. Welcome to post party

Ezio · May 25, 2021

Very good analysis

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Iker · May 25, 2021

Zeus said:
In general, I am pro-jury. Said it multiple times earlier. And also, in general, I think they did what they should do. Good scores for France and Switzerland, not destroying Italy too much, etc. Maybe only class acts imo as Portugal and Belgium deserved even more, but okay.

But several things are just really bad:
- Favorites obviously not giving points to other favorites in the final
- In the semis, you can see that juries are outranking competitors. For example: a juror from Malta placed Cyprus 15/15 and Sweden 14/15. And in the final? Sweden 5/25 and Cyprus 2/25. Really..? What a change..
- Politics. I get that in Cyprus you may get the songs from Greece more easily than from UK and Sweden, but come on..These things happens too much still. You can be a juror for Eurovision, what a privilege. You get criteria from the organisation and you should at least try to be the most objective as you can.
- Corruption or idk, moodswings. For example: juror A from Poland placed Moldova 2/16 in their semi and in the final 24/26. Come on.. And you see these kind of changes more.

The solution? Idk. I mean, in the general results, we still see North Macedonia doing well in 2019 and Switzerland and France in 2021. That's correct imo. But the corruption and the politics are really annoying.

Maybe I would suggest: go fully snob. Get rid of juries from all these countries. Try to create a top 100 worldwide with respected producers, songwriters, respected, older artists, et cetera. Let them give their points and rankings. And turn the jury influence down to 30-40%, so that the public vote has the majority still. Make it than a really snobbish-check and give the majority back to the public vote.

Don't forget about other fishy things with juries. This year

and

swapped 12 jury points and later Polish jury gave

12 points in the Grand Final. Our Polish commentators knew right away that

would end up with 12 points from us because of Senhit's connections and performances in Poland. And

and

exchanging 12 points this year, what? It cannot be a coincidence, also looks like a deal. Among some other countries that also do shady things one has to mention also Azerbaijan and Malta. Also I am pretty sure that Azerbaijan was genuinely buying a lot of simcards circa 2010-2012 in smaller countries where it is easier to manipulate. Why is EBU not doing anything to investigate that?
.
Obviously we know about that infamous Cyprus - Greece duo but it's old and we know why is that.

Iker · May 25, 2021

John1 said:
The way Moldova would have slayed this year with this masterpiece. I don't have any doubt on Natalia's ability when it comes to singing, but Sugar didn't fit her at all and it showed

I can see why people may like 'Prison' but imho it would flop hard, with Kirkorov influence or not.

hijirio · May 25, 2021

I hope a schlager entry wins eurovision next year and the winning speech will be

"schlager is not dead"

let a gay man dream xpray

PollyWantsACracker · May 25, 2021

Gera11 said:
Sure, Switzerland's 12 might be purely diasporic but "Loco loco" is a product of the local ex-Yugo music industry so I don't see the problem with their neighbours voting for music that is trending there? If anything it's more suspicious that gave it 0 and a measly 5.

I agree. We share same musical tradition and know all each other's singers and bands. Loco Loco was trending in CRO far before ESC and still is.

And I don't agree we favour each other due to diaspora or ethnicity.

Albina didn't qualifiy in the Semi 1 where there were North Macedonia and Slovenia, former ex Yu countries who gave us a 12 (but their juries gave us less points than Ireland).

The countries where we have a strong diaspora, Italy, Germany, Australia, Sweden - we got barely any points from televote.

So we the ex Yus don't vote like you think, due to political ties (as we have many mutual problems that is least probable).

We simply either love a song, or we don't.

And in general we prefer uptempo songs of all genres , not schlagers, therefore Ukraine Italy Finland and Serbia rocked our televote.

France also had a good result, but there were several factors thereto I will not comment into details now (or ever

).

MissYani · May 25, 2021

Hi there, I was just wondering if there’s anyone here who went to the grand Final family show (just like me) and recorded the recap videos for the dummy voting (unlike me

). I would really like to see them again, because I think some of them were way better than the ones shown during the Final on tv. Can anyone help me out?

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