The Netherlands NETHERLANDS 2024 - Joost Klein - Europapa

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Ted Talks]

Honestly I don’t know if a song can be more authentic, more typical Dutch party than that. Also, people are acting if there haven’t been any fun songs before Cha Cha Cha or rock songs before Maneskin. Come on guys. Don’t call everything a „copy“ immediately.

You appear to have really misunderstood my point.

I’ve acknowledged on here and other threads, fun songs have existed long before Cha Cha Cha - it’s a bit disingenuous of you to suggest I think otherwise. I like fun songs so long as they don’t veer into gimmicky territory which I feel this does.

I don’t personally believe it will come across as authentic to the wider public in May. They will see as wacky/fun/gimmicky and a ‘typical Eurovision song’.

My main point has been with this, Croatia, Finland and Estonia is that without Cha Cha Cha’s success, they would not exist. They’ve piggybacked on that formula, but none come remotely close to it. They are all pale imitations - that is my view.

 

[Chalphon]

Great job NL! Can't wait to see the staging!

PS. I was in Shanghai for the 2010 World Expo. The Dutch pavilion looked very similar to the building beeing burnt down in this video DS.

 

[Reinventor]

You appear to have really misunderstood my point.

I’ve acknowledged on here and other threads, fun songs have existed long before Cha Cha Cha - it’s a bit disingenuous of you to suggest I think otherwise. I like fun songs so long as they don’t veer into gimmicky territory which I feel this does.

I don’t personally believe it will come across as authentic to the wider public in May. They will see as wacky/fun/gimmicky and a ‘typical Eurovision song’.

My main point has been with this, Croatia, Finland and Estonia is that without Cha Cha Cha’s success, they would not exist. They’ve piggybacked on that formula, but none come remotely close to it. They are all pale imitations - that is my view.

Joost has been making this music for years, it's not an imitation of anything, it's authentically him (and authentically Dutch). I get it's not your cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine, but don't come up with all sorts of reasons to call it bad, while it just isn't. It's just not your thing.

He's at over 5 million views already, with reaction videos from all over the world. He's truly taken off now.

 

[Judas]

The early 00s Eurovision era - which I grew up with - was certainly from a UK perspective where the reputation of Eurovision was an at all time low because of wacky/novelty songs appearing to be the norm.

We can't really vision the base of this contest based on what the average British audience would think. Eurovision is a place for everyone to be who they are. If the wacky performers need a space to show it, so be it. Many people enjoy these performances for what they are, and if the average British audience has an issue with it, they have lots of more "serious" contests that they will feel happier to watch.

 

[Ted Talks]

Joost has been making this music for years, it's not an imitation of anything, it's authentically him (and authentically Dutch). I get it's not your cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine, but don't come up with all sorts of reasons to call it bad, while it just isn't. It's just not your thing.

He's at over 5 million views already, with reaction videos from all over the world. He's truly taken off now.

In your opinion, it’s a good song. In my opinion it’s a bad one. Both opinions are equally valid. The bit in bold comes across as only your take is the ‘correct’ one.

I’ve explained why I don’t like it and why I think it’s a bad thing for Eurovision. It’s not ‘coming all with all sorts’ as you say it, it’s my opinion. I’ve never expected that opinion to be universally liked, but it’s my take. Is that not valid to you? It’s how your message comes across.

I haven’t denigrated anyone who does like it. They’re entitled to for whatever reason they want, just as much as I’m entitled not to like it for whatever reason too..

 

[Reinventor]

In your opinion, it’s a good song. In my opinion it’s a bad one. Both opinions are equally valid. The bit in bold comes across as only your take is the ‘correct’ one.

I’ve explained why I don’t like it and why I think it’s a bad thing for Eurovision. It’s not ‘coming all with all sorts’ as you say it, it’s my opinion. I’ve never expected that opinion to be universally liked, but it’s my take. Is that not valid to you? It’s how your message comes across.

I haven’t denigrated anyone who does like it. They’re entitled to for whatever reason they want, just as much as I’m entitled not to like it for whatever reason too..

You called it a pale imitation, and that's just not the case. And you can recognize something is not bad while it's not your thing. E.g., I really do not care about Beyonce, but I also wouldn't call her music bad. See how that works?

 

[0scar]

I'm astonished this has 5+ million views within 3 days, I mean the second and third most watched are 2,7 and 2,2 million and they are up on the channel for 3 weeks.

I mean, this doesn't say anything about its chances in Malmö but I like that it (seems like it) is well received, which is incredible and I love that for Joost Klein, even if it's probably mostly Dutch, Belgian, German and Austrian views.

 

[Ted Talks]

We can't really vision the base of this contest based on what the average British audience would think. Eurovision is a place for everyone to be who they are. If the wacky performers need a space to show it, so be it. Many people enjoy these performances for what they are, and if the average British audience has an issue with it, they have lots of more "serious" contests that they will feel happier to watch.

I think generally the wider UK audience is still attuned to the wackier songs as that’s the old fashioned image of Eurovision we’re still fed by the media. It has evolved, but the media’s presentation of Eurovision hasn’t.

Over the last decade, the contest has become more ‘serious’ and that’s been to its benefit. Certainly in the UK over the last 3/4 years, there has been a change in discourse surrounding Eurovision to something more positive - and less on the old fashioned view of it - but it’s fighting against the stereotypical and old fashioned media view of it.

Maneskin, Rosa Linn, Loreen, Alessandra etc have all charted in the UK recently - something that just did not happen bar Loreen with Euphoria back in 2012. The UK has seemingly fallen in love with it more as the contest has evolved and become more serious.

Of course fun acts are still part of the contest and should be. At no point have I said otherwise, it’s when they’re done like this (and more so Finland this year) that’s my problem. All that hard work to improve the image of Eurovision (from a UK perspective) goes down the drain…

You called it a pale imitation, and that's just not the case. And you can recognize something is not bad while it's not your thing. E.g., I really do not care about Beyonce, but I also wouldn't call her music bad. See how that works?

And again, that’s my opinion it’s a pale imitation. I have not said it as a fact whereas you’re stating your view that’s it’s a good song as fact.

Both views are equally valid. And their opinions most of all, no facts are involved. We’re entitled to look at it differently you know.

As for your Beyoncé point, your view of her is indifference - which is an opinion which is just as valid as those who love her and those that don’t. I’m indifferent to her too so we agree there - see how that works? It’s an opinion we both share, many others will not. That’s how opinions work.

 

[MopManMoss]

It's just occurred to me that this might be one of the most elaborate pieces of therapy in human history

 

[Vondenburg]

I don’t personally believe it will come across as authentic to the wider public in May. They will see as wacky/fun/gimmicky and a ‘typical Eurovision song’.

In Germany they will see the Guy from Friesenjung. I think the 12 Televotingpoints from Germany will go directly to him... if Joost will get in the finals.

 

[0scar]

Friesenjung.

Banger

 

[gigi_copp3]

Europapa is climbing the odds. It's now at 7th, before the song release it was around 25th place I think?

 

[han-g]

Removing juries from semifinals is one of the reasons this happens but also in national finals it's obvious that people are crazy for such entries. People always liked such stuff but juries in semifinals made it less obvious. Juries are important for Eurovision and you can see the reason this year already.

Anyway don't forget that final will have juries so you don't have to worry for a top10 full of novelties and the points may eventually split between all these entries. Juries will surely push lower some of them. Finland won't finish higher than 15th for example and Netherlands doesn't look like top10 either and i say that as someone who likes it quite a lot.

I don't know about the Netherlands, if the streams keep coming the juries won't rate it too low, they don't like to appear completely out of touch.

 

[Reinventor]

I'm just hoping a fun entry wins Eurovision because fun music can be quality music as well. And we don't end up with finals of the same boring ballads and singer songwriter stuff because that is what "the juries want to hear", which as a result would mean that the gap between ESC and the actual people of Europe widens to an extent it would simply mean a decrease in viewers and popularity of the contest.

 

[Miloutchi]

I hate this kind of music, but even I have to admit I hate it less than I thought I would and it may even grow on me. It’s very Dutch though. Maybe that’s why it is growing on me.

 

[Neely]

I think generally the wider UK audience is still attuned to the wackier songs as that’s the old fashioned image of Eurovision we’re still fed by the media. It has evolved, but the media’s presentation of Eurovision hasn’t.

Over the last decade, the contest has become more ‘serious’ and that’s been to its benefit. Certainly in the UK over the last 3/4 years, there has been a change in discourse surrounding Eurovision to something more positive - and less on the old fashioned view of it - but it’s fighting against the stereotypical and old fashioned media view of it.

Maneskin, Rosa Linn, Loreen, Alessandra etc have all charted in the UK recently - something that just did not happen bar Loreen with Euphoria back in 2012. The UK has seemingly fallen in love with it more as the contest has evolved and become more serious.

Of course fun acts are still part of the contest and should be. At no point have I said otherwise, it’s when they’re done like this (and more so Finland this year) that’s my problem. All that hard work to improve the image of Eurovision (from a UK perspective) goes down the drain…


And again, that’s my opinion it’s a pale imitation. I have not said it as a fact whereas you’re stating your view that’s it’s a good song as fact.

Both views are equally valid. And their opinions most of all, no facts are involved. We’re entitled to look at it differently you know.

As for your Beyoncé point, your view of her is indifference - which is an opinion which is just as valid as those who love her and those that don’t. I’m indifferent to her too so we agree there - see how that works? It’s an opinion we both share, many others will not. That’s how opinions work.

As an 'old fart' of a fan whom grew up watching ESC in the 80s I'd be more inclined to blame the UK media and people's blinkered perception of the contest than the actual content.

For the majority of the 90s the contest was pretty much ballad dominated and quite serious with uptempo songs like Gina G very much the outlier in years 1994-1996 when the appetite was more for ethnic and celtic songs. At the time I perceived it as a deliberate shift away from the 'Diggi Loo Diggi Ley' and 'Making Your Mind Up' material and fun, colourful performances of the 80s to make the contest seem more respectible. It felt more of a genuine 'song' rather than performance contest but less relatable to the current music scene than ever before and certainly wasn't attracting many new fans.

Did the general UK audience or the media change their view of the contest during the 90s? Of course they didn't. It was still parodied or dismissed as a waste if time as if it'd be full of songs with 'Boom Bang A Bang' style lyrics when only 'Yamma Yamma' fitted that description. I remember Iceland's 'Sjubidu' being derided for the 'Shoo Be Doo" lyrics despite being a deliberately retro jazz song rather than some oompah oompah type song.

Joost hasn't quite clicked with me yet and whilst I could see a potential win for Baby Lasagne I too would personally worry about a song title like 'Rim Tim Tagi Dim' being listed in the media as the latest winning song, but that's just because I bear the years of scars and derision for liking the contest when it was distinclty uncool. The general audience have no such hang ups and are more likely to vote for 'Rim Tim Tagi Dim' and 'Europapa' than the hardcore fans and yet also simultaneously deride the contest for having these very songs. It's just one of those oddities and hypocrisies we have to endure.

 

[DirtyFalcon]

It's so weird. I find this song absolutely silly in a bad way and annoying to listen, also a bit political but in the same time, i found myself sing "Europapa" unconsciously this morning when i was walking. So maybe the unconscious part of me loves it but the conscious one absolutely hates it. I don't know what to think.

 

[empo21]

The chorus is fine, but I dislike the verses.

 

[mercachita]

Already increased to I am absolutely addicted to this!!!

 

[Morty]

has annoyed me in the ESC for the last 25 years or so. I LOVE Dutch music. Eurodance, trance, hardstyle, produces quality EDM, and has done so for a very long time. And yet, they've never sent any of it to the ESC, and I've been disappointed every time the Dutch entries have been announced. Until now. I've been wanting to boycott this contest this year (because of Izrael), but when finally sends something I like, I don't think I can.

Easily from me.