Kosovo on Eurovision

[cegs5]

And the idea that Serbia would withdraw is an empty threat imo. It's not something we should consider.

They are prepared to participate alongside independent Kosovo at the Olympics, arguably a vastly more important world event than Eurovision.

It participated alongside Kosovo at the European Games.

I see no evidence that they wouldn't participate alongside them at ESC.

Sooner or later it will happen... I think having the Republic of Kosovo in ESC is about time only... Just like we knew deep inside that Australia will take part although they don't fulfilled all the requirements that Stiven pointed out.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Sooner or later it will happen... I think having the Republic of Kosovo in ESC is about time only... Just like we knew deep inside that Australia will take part although they don't fulfilled all the requirements that Stiven pointed out.

Exactly!

Some people live in a fantasy land where they think the world revolves around Serbian nationalistic interests. Well it doesn't. The Republic of Serbia was founded in 2007 and the Republic of Kosovo was founded in 2008. They have equal value in Europe's eyes and must be treated equally - if that doesn't suit one of them then tough, it's their loss. They will be the ones missing out on Eurovision not us.

If you love Eurovision you should love its original meaning: a coming together of nations to show that music can help overcome differences. If that doesn't suit you and you want to turn it into some nationalistic political engine then Eurovision really isn't for you.

 

[Stiven]

Sooner or later it will happen... I think having the Republic of Kosovo in ESC is about time only... Just like we knew deep inside that Australia will take part although they don't fulfilled all the requirements that Stiven pointed out.

Which requirement Australia didn't fulfil before entering?
-UN member: check
-ITU member: check
-EBU member (Active or Associate): check
Kosovo doesn't fulfil any of these

Exactly!

Some people live in a fantasy land where they think the world revolves around Serbian nationalistic interests.

Sorry to announce for you but I'm not Serbian so I don't serve their nationalistic agenda, and the only fantasy I see is yours Kosovo is a highly unstable province at the moment and if it wasn't for the UN peacekeeping force it would have been in full blown civil war by now, RTK is in a state of near collapse so please tell me why should the EBU gamble on having them in the contest? Another thing Kosovo isn't an oppressed state its the complete opposite it highly discriminates anyone who isn't Albanian.
And finally a personal question I have for both of you: Have you ever been to Kosovo to see things for yourself or are you basing your opinions based on media and internet alone. Because I have, and it's not a pretty sight.

 

[cegs5]

Which requirement Australia didn't fulfil before entering?

-EBU member (Active or Associate): check
Kosovo doesn't fulfil any of these

To be part of ESC it's needed to be ACTIVE member of EBU not associated. Australia was invited although it didn't fulfil that requirement. That's all what matters in the topic, I was not talking about the UN membership because Switzerland is not a member either and it has participated in ESC from the very begining ..Eurovision is the topic. Go to complain to the more than hundred countries that recognise the Republic of Kosovo in the thread of politics.

 

[Stiven]

To be part of ESC it's needed to be ACTIVE member of EBU not associated. Australia was invited although it didn't fulfil that requirement. That's all what matters in the topic, I was not talking about the UN membership because Switzerland is not a member either and it has participated in ESC from the very begining ..Eurovision is the topic. Go to complain to the more than hundred countries that recognise the Republic of Kosovo in the thread of politics.

Sorry to announce but Switzerland was an observer member and recognized by the UN and a member of ITU (the ITU is located in Switzerland) Kosovo is not, and ESC still requires an EBU membership either an associated or active that's why I mentioned it, and RTK in its current state doesn't have the resources to become one.
So my points still stand.

 

[cegs5]

Sorry to announce but Switzerland was an observer member and recognized by the UN and a member of ITU (the ITU is located in Switzerland) Kosovo is not, and ESC still requires an EBU membership either an associated or active that's why I mentioned it, and RTK in its current state doesn't have the resources to become one.
So my points still stand.

LMAO You people are hilarious.
I know that but you have totally missed the point of the discussion.

Btw I have been to The Republic of Kosovo (twice) but my trips are not a topic here neither my personal views of the conflict, in fact I have not stated any support or the opposite... I'm just commenting about damn Eurovision.

 

[Milos-BC]

Some people live in a fantasy land where they think the world revolves around Serbian nationalistic interests. Well it doesn't. The Republic of Serbia was founded in 2007 and the Republic of Kosovo was founded in 2008.

Although I said I will not reply anymore until new stuff happens, this bullshit has to get a reply. Based on this and the way you wrote it, it appears that we have a country since 2007. Serbia exists since Middle Ages, my dear Adam, and Serbian ancestors date to prehistoric period. Serbia is one of the oldest countries in Europe. As a republic yes, we do exist from that time because that is when Montenegro also got seperated, but Serbian country exists for centuries.


And back in the Middle Ages, Kosovo was also , of course, a part of Kingdom of Serbia and it was just as interesting to other people as it is now, and we have fought against the Ottoman Empire to protect it. It was the first thing they wanted when they were occupiying these lands. And guess what, no Albanians, nor anything related to them was there at that point.

About the nationalistic interests of as you say I can only laugh. Better take a look at your own interests and what you are doing and then comment others.

 

[Stiven]

LMAO You people are hilarious.
I know that but you have totally missed the point of the discussion.

Btw I have been to The Republic of Kosovo (twice) but my trips are not a topic here neither my personal views of the conflict, in fact I have not stated any support or the opposite... I'm just commenting about damn Eurovision.

There is invention called the mirror have you heard of it?
Because you didn't offer a single contra argument instead most of the things you posted were personal opinions and things that I already taken down in my previous summary.
Sorry but I give up if you can't offer a single valid contra-argument this debate is basically over.

 

[Scooby]

Exactly!

Some people live in a fantasy land where they think the world revolves around Serbian nationalistic interests. Well it doesn't. The Republic of Serbia was founded in 2007 and the Republic of Kosovo was founded in 2008. They have equal value in Europe's eyes and must be treated equally - if that doesn't suit one of them then tough, it's their loss. They will be the ones missing out on Eurovision not us.

Sometimes I asked myself, how old are you? 10?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_at_the_1912_Summer_Olympics

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Sometimes I asked myself, how old are you? 10?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_at_the_1912_Summer_Olympics

Oh so countries and borders that existed in 1918 have relevance to today do they? Well that suits me, let's make India British and Algeria French again!

But anyway, the Kingdom of Serbia only gained Kosovo in 1912-1913, before that it was in the Ottoman Empire (since the 1400's in fact). Kosovo has only ever been under Serbian rule 1912-1918, 2003-2008 (theoretically, in reality it was ruled by the UN). So what's that? A total of 11 years of Serbian rule in Kosovo? Hardly a compelling argument for the claim that "Kosovo has always been Serbian".

This is historical fact.

But even all that is of irrelevance. Because Kosovo in Eurovision is about the future, and the facts here are that Kosovo is able to participate and will participate, whenever it wishes to. The debate is whether or not you think this is right, and imo, it is right. I cannot see how anybody can legitimately claim that Kosovo shouldn't participate, as I've said, the only objections I've seen are political/nationalistic objections which of course are unacceptable in Eurovision.

 

[Scooby]

Oh so countries and borders that existed in 1918 have relevance to today do they? Well that suits me, let's make India British and Algeria French again!

But anyway, the Kingdom of Serbia only gained Kosovo in 1912-1913, before that it was in the Ottoman Empire. Kosovo has only ever been under Serbian rule 1912-1918, 2003-2008 (theoretically, in reality it was ruled by the UN). So what's that? A total of 11 years of Serbian rule in Kosovo? Hardly a compelling argument for the claim that "Kosovo has always been Serbian".

This is historical fact.

But even all that is of irrelevance. Because Kosovo in Eurovision is about the future, and the facts here are that Kosovo is able to participate and will participate, whenever it wishes to. The debate is whether or not you think this is right, and imo, it is right. I cannot see how anybody can legitimately claim that Kosovo shouldn't participate, as I've said, the only objections I've seen are political/nationalistic objections which of course are unacceptable in Eurovision.

As I sad before, your level of ..... hahaha
I am right. You are 10!

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Oh we're going back to the Middle Ages now too? Hell, let's re-establish the Crusader States and the Holy Roman Empire while we're at it!

If the anti-Kosovan argument has lowered itself to producing maps from antiquity when the Roman Empire was still in existence, then it shows just how desperate the argument is (if there is one at all).

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I wonder how many Eurovision countries existed at the time of that map? Let me see...
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France, Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria.

The Romans were still going, Spain was Muslim, England wouldn't be formed for another 80 years, the UK for a thousand. I'm afraid I really don't see the relevance to Eurovision 2016

 

[Milos-BC]

Wow.....


Today I learned that Serbia GAINED Kosovo in 1912-1913 and it was under our rule in 2003-2008 period (but even then it wasn't ours), and before it was the Ottoman Empire. So it was never Serbian basically, that is what our dear [MENTION=5194]MyHeartIsYours[/MENTION] says. All the other historians and people were wrong all the time, he is the one who says the truth. Seriously, every time i think I have read everything I open this topc and get surprised again. But the ammount of nonsense in your posts is truly astonishing and I can just wonder where are the limits. Do they even exist?


Not only it is utterly hillarious when someone pretends he knows someone else's history better than the person who belongs to that region, he is also trying to convince him into his own lie.


When did you manage to get so many informations about our history, I wonder. You've probably read just a couple of paragraphs on Wikipedia when you saw what the other side was writing and of course, you tossed the facts the way it suits you and you continue fabricating lies and posting nonsense.


When I said others should read other sources to get better informed about this subject I didn't mean to actually read two things on Wikipedia. History cannot be learned like that. If scientific community would work this way, then everyone would've been Nikola Tesla.


At least it is amusing to read, I have to say that But what else can be expected from someone who supported bombing of Serbia. Also, speaking of that, why were we pressured to give up on Kosovo back then? Why, if it was not ours, as you just said? You see - even your arguments are against you.

 

[aardvark]

[MENTION=4368]Milos-BC[/MENTION] or any other Serbian member for that matter.

I know this is off-topic, but I have a question regarding the break-up of Yugoslavia. I do not wish to offend anyone on this matter, it's just something that I don't understand and would like an explanation for?

Why did Yugoslavia(Serbia) declare war on Croatia and Bosnia when they declared independence, but seemingly had a much more accepting approach to Slovenia and Macedonia? Was it about protecting Serb populations in those republics, or was there more to it?

And likewise, why did Serbia accept Montenegro leaving the union without any hassles. And then moving onto Kosovo - does the difference in acceptance lie only in the fact that Serbs see Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia whereas the other republics were only constituent republics of Yugoslavia, but not Serbian territory per se?

If you like you can answer me in a PM so as not to escalate the political discussion in this thread.

 

[Mii11]

[MENTION=4368]Milos-BC[/MENTION] or any other Serbian member for that matter.

I know this is off-topic, but I have a question regarding the break-up of Yugoslavia. I do not wish to offend anyone on this matter, it's just something that I don't understand and would like an explanation for?

Why did Yugoslavia(Serbia) declare war on Croatia and Bosnia when they declared independence, but seemingly had a much more accepting approach to Slovenia and Macedonia? Was it about protecting Serb populations in those republics, or was there more to it?

And likewise, why did Serbia accept Montenegro leaving the union without any hassles. And then moving onto Kosovo - does the difference in acceptance lie only in the fact that Serbs see Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia whereas the other republics were only constituent republics of Yugoslavia, but not Serbian territory per se?

If you like you can answer me in a PM so as not to escalate the political discussion in this thread.

I am not Serbian but I think Serbs treat Kosovo as an important place historically.

Personally I would like to see Kosovo making debut, but I would also like o see Faroe Islands at Eurovision as well (even though they are not independent, but still they are self-governing and wish to participate). However I would be worried that then territories which are not recognised by other countries but still wish to participate even though their existence is IMO more controversial than existence of Kosovo (South Ossetia and Northern Cyprus come to mind). I think someone mentioned Palestine - sorry but there is no way this entity should be allowed to participate. They have nothing to do with Europe - moreover, imagine if this entity won Eurovision, what would happen to LGBT and Israeli fan base.

I just want to add one more thing - I would not advise to making judgment whether country should or shouldn't be recognised based on historical maps and historical claims. If we did so in every case, then countries like Slovakia (doesn't have long history as independent nation and were controlled by Czechs and Hungarians for many years) FYR Macedonia (because it has never existed before this century and some people claim they are Bulgarians hiding their real history) would not be allowed to participate in Eurovision as well.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

What can I say... some of us studied history, not Serb nationalism, at school.

[MENTION=4368]Milos-BC[/MENTION]
Go on then, seeing as I know so little about the situation, teach me. Tell me when, in the modern era (generally recognised as being about 1750 onwards) has Kosovo belonged to either the Kingdom of Serbia or the Republic of Serbia?

I am eager to hear the response

Also while you're at it, please explain why territorial maps of 1200 years ago have any relevance to Eurovision today? If I'm correct, I'd be living in the Kingdom of Mercia right now lol.

Where's my Mercian Eurovision entry?!!

 

[Berivan]

OMG #FreeKosovo

just kidding

Kosovo isn't even an EBU member to begin with so...

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Kosovo isn't even an EBU member to begin with so...

Neither is Australia

Nobody is claiming that Kosovo is going to participate in Eurovision now, the point is that they will be able to when they decide to pursue it... and I for one will be very happy when they are able to do that.

 

[Milos-BC]

@Milos-BC or any other Serbian member for that matter.

I know this is off-topic, but I have a question regarding the break-up of Yugoslavia. I do not wish to offend anyone on this matter, it's just something that I don't understand and would like an explanation for?

Why did Yugoslavia(Serbia) declare war on Croatia and Bosnia when they declared independence, but seemingly had a much more accepting approach to Slovenia and Macedonia? Was it about protecting Serb populations in those republics, or was there more to it?

And likewise, why did Serbia accept Montenegro leaving the union without any hassles. And then moving onto Kosovo - does the difference in acceptance lie only in the fact that Serbs see Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia whereas the other republics were only constituent republics of Yugoslavia, but not Serbian territory per se?

If you like you can answer me in a PM so as not to escalate the political discussion in this thread.

As soon as I have more free time I will reply to you via PM.

What can I say... some of us studied history, not Serb nationalism, at school.

@Milos-BC
Go on then, seeing as I know so little about the situation, teach me. Tell me when, in the modern era (generally recognised as being about 1750 onwards) has Kosovo belonged to either the Kingdom of Serbia or the Republic of Serbia?

I am eager to hear the response

Also while you're at it, please explain why territorial maps of 1200 years ago have any relevance to Eurovision today? If I'm correct, I'd be living in the Kingdom of Mercia right now lol.

Where's my Mercian Eurovision entry?!!

You have not studied Serbian history that is for sure. And if you have such "vast" knowledge about other histories, including your own, you better stick to something else because you will be ridiculed and mocked in serious academic circles so much that you will just want to cry. You should just shut up when it comes to these things, where you have clearly demonstrated that you have 0 knowledge. Heck, I know some stuff from English history, but nowhere near enough to be able to put myself to judge some things from it. Simply put, I don't know enough at all, and I just don't discuss things I don't know. Yourself, on the contrary, have limited or no info at all and you represent yourself like someone who knows every single detail about what was happening here. The truth is that you are just embarrasing yourself.


And about the second part, seems like you just can't accept that Kosovo was ALWAYS a part of Serbia. And a vital part too you know. Both in the Middle Age, and the modern period. Always. Is that clear enough for you, or do we have to draw as well, again? According to your flawed logic, the whole Balkan didn't exist since the modern period because we know how much Ottomans were present on this region So much from you and your history.

Also, it is quite funny that you call someone's desire to keep a vital part of his territory from others literally STEALING it Serbian nationalism, when you yourself are an extreme nationalist and when you practically look at everyone else who isn't British as an inferior being. You are practically a definition of hypocrism.

Also about this part:

obody is claiming that Kosovo is going to participate in Eurovision now, the point is that they will be able to when they decide to pursue it

They are "pursuing" this since 2008. The only problem is that there was no real progress in that. As you can see, life is definetly a bitch, especially when you want to steal someone else's territory and proclaim it as your own