Kosovo on Eurovision

[agent]

[MENTION=15097]agent[/MENTION] You will have to print-screen that part during the voting proccess, because I am not sure I have seen it during the 1986 voting. Maybe your TV/PC was showing something else.

[MENTION=10140]cegs5[/MENTION] I would like you to quote every political statement in the last 2 posts. I am curious to see each and every one of them. Don't forget to quote the part about the ESC contribution as well, that is a crucial part.

voting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob-Og0qqrrc

Yugoslavia voted 2nd - Priština calling

 

[ParadiseES]

xboring

 

[Sabiondo]

BTW.. I guess if i can open threads about South Ossetia & Abkhazia in Eurovision, because if Kosovo finally competes in ESC, then they will come do that also, and will give 12x2 = 24 points to every year!!

 

[cegs5]

BTW.. I guess if i can open threads about South Ossetia & Abkhazia in Eurovision, because if Kosovo finally competes in ESC, then they will come do that also, and will give 12x2 = 24 points to every year!!

There are objective reasons to think about Kosovo as a pontential participant in ESC, when they have gained membership as a sovereign state in many international institutions like the World Bank, sport events like the Olympics, entertainment competitions like Miss Universe, despite the fact that more than hundred UN members recognise their independence...while South Ossetia can't even be compared with them at this moment, not in the political spectrum but based on the facts above. Had South Ossetia gained a recognition and space as a state in the international community then it would be realistic and useful to discuss a possible participation in ESC so far their independence is just backed up by four countries in the world and they are nobody in international institutions and competitions. But yeah...i guess you can open a thread if you want...

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I personally would support South Ossetia joining, though obviously they would have to be a recognised state in the eyes of most Eurovision nations first

People who are saying that unanimous recognition by the entire world is required before participation in Eurovision are talking nonsense. Armenia, Cyprus and Israel all participate successfully in Eurovision but don't have 100% recognition around the world. Cyprus successfully competed for many years side-by-side with Turkey despite the fact that Turkey does not recognise Cyprus.

 

[Sultana]

I think only countries which are recognized by every nation should participate. Kosovo is not recognized by some nations ( including my own ). I believe that only after it will be recognized will have an official status as all members of ESC it can participate. Otherwise it is not fair for Kosovo as it is not as equal as the rest.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I think only countries which are recognized by every nation should participate. Kosovo is not recognized by some nations ( including my own ). I believe that only after it will be recognized will have an official status as all members of ESC it can participate. Otherwise it is not fair for Kosovo as it is not as equal as the rest.

But Cyprus has participated for decades yet they are not recognised by Turkey. So we should throw Cyprus out because Turkey doesn't recognise it?? Why should Turkey be given the right to veto the participation of another country?

The same goes for Serbia. Why should Serbia be given the right to veto the participation of another country?

I keep hearing about Big 5 and Russia exploiting the Contest. Well it seems to me that there is no greater exploitation than one country being given the power to approve or turn down another country's participation.

 

[Milos-BC]

Exploation of the contest because a self-proclaimed country can't enter And I thought I've read everything.

The same goes for Serbia. Why should Serbia be given the right to veto the participation of another country?

Because it is our duty to protect our own territory, and also the heart of our country. Clear enough? In the same way your country cares about its own territory, we care about ours too.


I am amused how you still don't see how pointless this discussion is. I am constantly reading what people are writing, hoping that someone who is a supporter of this idea will finally realize that it has no sense to discuss something that will not happen. Yet, people are constantly moaning and comparing things that can never be compared (interesting how those statements are not a problem for cegs5).

Well, go on if you ask me, but my advice is to save your nerves for something else. You can't and won't change anything here and you will not preformulate the state borders of . The sooner you accept that, the better for you.

 

[Gera11]

I personally would support South Ossetia joining, though obviously they would have to be a recognised state in the eyes of most Eurovision nations first

People who are saying that unanimous recognition by the entire world is required before participation in Eurovision are talking nonsense. Armenia, Cyprus and Israel all participate successfully in Eurovision but don't have 100% recognition around the world. Cyprus successfully competed for many years side-by-side with Turkey despite the fact that Turkey does not recognise Cyprus.

Yes, but all these countries you mentioned are recognized by the vast majority of ESC participants.

As for what [MENTION=11624]NoraZineb[/MENTION] suggested, I think it's Serbia's right to veto the participation of a part of their territory. Unilateral declarations of independence are concerning, to be honest. Imagine Scotland declaring their independence, even after that referendum, randomly. Or Wales.

 

[cegs5]

[MENTION=4368]Milos-BC[/MENTION] I have gicen a comment about absurd comparisions above. As for Serbia, I agree with [MENTION=5194]MyHeartIsYours[/MENTION] there are countries like Cyprus, Armenia and Israel which are not recognised by all the countries as NoraZineb demanded. However, Serbia has the right to do boicot esc if someday Kosovo participates...but I hope they won't...just like in the Olympics both counteies are in, so leave the pride and the defense of your territory aside of the entertainment and brotherhood between nations. That's a political statement btw.

P.s. Self-proclaimed country recognised by the majority of nations in the world... as self-proclaimed as Finland, for instance.

 

[cegs5]

[MENTION=4368]Milos-BC[/MENTION] I have gicen a comment about absurd comparisions above. As for Serbia, I agree with [MENTION=5194]MyHeartIsYours[/MENTION] there are countries like Cyprus, Armenia and Israel which are not recognised by all the countries as NoraZineb demanded. However, Serbia has the right to do boicot esc if someday Kosovo participates...but I hope they won't...just like in the Olympics both counteies are in, so leave the pride and the defense of your territory aside of the entertainment and brotherhood between nations. That's a political statement btw.

P.s. Self-proclaimed country recognised by the majority of nations in the world... as self-proclaimed as Finland, for instance.

 

[Milos-BC]

Finland and Kosovo can never be compared. And none of those other countries either. I think you have no idea what was happening there in the first place. It is not your fault though. However, I always say people should get plenty of informations if they want to participate in debates like this.

If you really want to know, there is plenty of documentaries and also plenty of material on the internet. Also, don't skip a very important year - 1999. That is when a war crime was commited and then we got bombs filled with uranium in our faces because we said we are not giving Kosovo and because it was already planned to be taken from us because powerful countries wanted so because of their own interests. That is also when one pollitician called Tony Blair (In people call him "killer of Serbian children") said the following: "Serbs should be eridacted and destroyed. They should be removed from this planet in every form of life and existence". He is also directly responsible for putting uranium in those bombs, and we feel the consequences of that even today, because the number of people dying of cancer has significantly increased. Not to mention the other consequences...............and all that because we don't give what is ours and what was always ours


Yeah, this is a sensitive topic, it is very political, so I am stoping here and letting you do rest of the research. If you want your arguments to have any basis, of course

 

[cegs5]

You are boicoting this thread turning everything into politics and just see what you want to see. I only said what is a fact, Finland as many other countries in the world proclaimed its independence so what's the fuss about it... Whether is fair or legal in the case of Kosovo it's smth that should not be discussed in this thread, but you want to start again... Nobody is talking about what happened in 1999 please!


I understand that it is a delicate topic for you as many other people who are still struggling with the consequences of the war though, but we are not discussing that.

Anyway, back to the subject... If/when Kosovo join the party I hope Serbia won't withdraw just like in the Olympics or Miss Universe, politics should be left aside.

 

[Milos-BC]

Yeah that is true, politics should be left aside. In this case though it is impossible. That is why it is impossible to say anything on this case without getting into that field That is also why I only gave a small teaser. And the rest is indeed not for this topic, so whoever wants to read and investigate can freely do it.


All in all, future will give out many details. I am 100% certain that, under current circumstances, Kosovo will not join the contest.

 

[Gabe]

Yes, Kosovo is very Serbian, with a whole 4% of its population being Serbs

 

[Milos-BC]

Yes, Kosovo is very Serbian, with a whole 4% of its population being Serbs

You know what was happening with Serbian people on Kosovo, I hope? Actually not "was" it is still happening.

This demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on this subject. The one who wrote this is either Albanian (or Kosovar Albanian) or is simply clueless. Like you are. As I said earlier, that is not your fault. Your fault is only a willingness to discuss something you have no info about.

 

[Stiven]

Yes, Kosovo is very Serbian, with a whole 4% of its population being Serbs

You do realize that Northern Kosovo(where most of the Serbs live) is excluded right?
And also Kosovo is pretty infamous for its large ethnic cleansing against non-Albanians and the western media is infamous here for not covering them.
For example here in Skopje we have a huge Roma refugee camp yet Kosovo refuses take them back and the people responsible for them have never been prosecuted so the Romani are stuck here as stateless people because for some stupid reasons it's taboo to prosecute Albanians for war crimes.
Anyway let's forget about politics and go back on topic:
I think we should all agree that a country has to become a member of the UN before becoming a member of the ITU and then the EBU(either as an associate or active) before taking part at Eurovision.
And Kosovo fails to meet the requirements for any of these so as longs as this continues we wont be seeing Kosovo in the contest.

And counter some pointless arguments:
-Kosovo is recognised by so many countries
Palestine has more recognition than Kosovo but its still not a member of the UN and also recognitions of Kosovo has been slowing down recently.

-Kosovo takes part in other competitions:
Most of the other competitions have no requirements for a country to be independent Eurovision does for example Puerto Rico is not an independent country but it takes part in most of the mentioned competitions

-Kosovo took part in Eurovision Young Dancers:
So did Canada that's because EYD doesn't have the same requirements as the ESC so comparing the two is pointless.

-Personally I would love to see Kosovo at Eurovision:
That's personal Opinion for example I personally don't want to see them at Eurovision but if they fulfil all the criteria for entering I wouldn't argue against it.

-Kosovo tries to take part
So did Palestine but they didn't fulfil the criteria and they never made their debut

I hope that instead of arguing about politics and other competitions (most of which have nothing to do with Eurovision) we can calm down and just acknowledge the fact for the foreseeable future Kosovo won't be taking part and arguing on the internet won't change that.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Because it is our duty to protect our own territory, and also the heart of our country. Clear enough? In the same way your country cares about its own territory, we care about ours too.

I'm afraid the rest of us care little for you using a music contest "to protect your territory", that's what the United Nations is for... as far as I'm aware, the whole reason Eurovision was created in the first place was to forget about such petty disputes.

Actually my country is pretty relaxed about the whole thing. Northern Ireland votes in Ireland's national finals as well as the UK's, plenty of Northern Irish citizens choose to represent Ireland in Eurovision instead of the UK (I myself voted for one, Ryan Dolan)

Well, go on if you ask me, but my advice is to save your nerves for something else. You can't and won't change anything here and you will not preformulate the state borders of . The sooner you accept that, the better for you.

Don't worry I'm not worrying my nerves about it lol. I want Kosovo and Serbia to participate, and I don't want Eurovision to be a political fight, my conscience is clear

Yes, but all these countries you mentioned are recognized by the vast majority of ESC participants.

So is Kosovo

As for what NoraZineb suggested, I think it's Serbia's right to veto the participation of a part of their territory. Unilateral declarations of independence are concerning, to be honest. Imagine Scotland declaring their independence, even after that referendum, randomly. Or Wales.

They are not concerning when the people are given no choice. We gave Scotland a free choice and they made their decision to stay with us - therefore not even the pro-independence side want to declare independence (it would have been a different story had Britain refused to grant a referendum). As far as I'm aware, despite waiting many years Kosovo has never been treated with the respect it deserves. Therefore a UDI becomes acceptable.

But all this is irrelevent in Eurovision's eyes. What matters is this:
Kosovo is de facto independent in the eyes of the entire world, including Serbia. Kosovo is de jure independent in the eyes of the vast majority of Europe and the world.
Cyprus, Armenia and Israel are all the same and participate in Eurovision. Kosovo is able to participate to.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

And the idea that Serbia would withdraw is an empty threat imo. It's not something we should consider.

They are prepared to participate alongside independent Kosovo at the Olympics, arguably a vastly more important world event than Eurovision.

It participated alongside Kosovo at the European Games.

I see no evidence that they wouldn't participate alongside them at ESC.

 

[Milos-BC]

Arguments contra Kosovo have been made, whoever wanted to read them, he/she had a great chance to do it on this and the previous pages. I have said where people should look for additional info and @Stiven made a perfect summary yesterday, so to continue anything after that is just pointless and stupid because people who want Kosovo in ignore all that and just continue building their own stories and excuses because they don't want real arguments, they have their own views and stick to them no matter what.


Your wishes are one thing, reality is the other and that is really where the story ends. Until something changes or until something different appears, I rest my case here. So, until then Kosovo IS taking part, but as a part of Republic of Serbia, just how it should always be. End of the story, from my perspective.