Italy ITALY 2019 - Mahmood - Soldi

[astatine86]

I swear this is the last time I'm following national finals. I get waaaaay too invested.

 

[sucof]

 

[mauve]

Apparently he's just given an interview for some radio station and said he's still unsure if he wants to do ESC or not. I can't. Please.

I hope he will go. Even though I can't connect to the song, it'd be sad if he withdrew. He won. All the racism in the social media is terrible. I had to deal with such a Thing in my youth as well. I was mobbed at school and that is something that is pure mental stress. Hope he has enough friends who will tell him to do this.

 

[Edre]

Oh, God. I'm quite surprised that even with a few Italians here everybody is kind of missing the point.
Unlike Eurovision, where we have a jury mostly because of neighbor and diaspora voting, in Italy we had to include a jury because of a streak of very questionable winners around 2009/2010: singers that took part in a talent show earlier in the year, and won against better songs because of their fanbase. Since the juries were reintroduced, we've seen many big artists making a comeback because this kind of voting has been "mitigated" to a certain extent, but not completely.

Since 2015, the winner of the televote has always won Sanremo (neither Il Volo or Meta and Moro won the press or expert vote, they mostly won because of their huge fanbase, but their songs weren't really rejected by the critics like Ultimo or Il Volo this year). Ultimo came to Sanremo with a really, really huge fanbase built since his Sanremo Giovani victory last year (and with some impressive songs released during the year), but "I miei particolari" disappointed almost all the music experts and didn't really impress people who aren't fans of him. Il Volo is also kind of hated in Italy, because they're seen as old-fashioned and incredibly stereotypical, they are what people outside of Italy think Italian music is, but they appeal to older people, who are a huge portion of Sanremo viewers and the ones who are more willing to spend money to vote for a singer.

Mahmood was the winner of this year's Sanremo Giovani, just two months ago, and nobody knew him. On the first night, he was the last to sing, around 1:00 PM, he had like less than half the esposure than Ultimo or Il Volo who, outside of the huge fanbase, sang around 22:30 PM. It was basically impossible for him to place well the first night. Despite everything, he made such an impression that he (as a NOBODY, really) was able to place seventh with the televote in the finale, and before that Soldi was alrealdy the most played song in the radio. That 14% is the total score of all the five nights: in the top 3 he was still third, but with 21%, which, trust me, is incredibly good for someone whose most famous song before Sanremo had something like 50k views on YT, and against the artists with the biggest fanbase out of all the 24.

If you look at the percentage of votes, Ultimo and Il Volo combined had something like around 50% of the votes even before the final 3. Is that because their songs were the ones Italians liked the most, or because they had a lot of fans who did everything to vote them? Their songs weren't that much better than the other ones. Il Volo wouldn't have even reached the Top 10 for the press and the jury, they were carried by the huge difference between them and Loredana, who placed third in the voting and was first for the press. In the end, seeing how much Ultimo and Il Volo were carried by the televote, the press and the jury were probably quite pissed (hey, they were also Loredana stans after all) and voted for Mahmood.

So it's not a "political vote" at all, if anything it's a clear signal from the press against the classical sanremese songs, that are kind of stuck in an awful cliché. Even Ultimo fell in that "trap", his last album is really good, but "I miei particolari" was so disappointing and dated. Outside of his fans (so... many people, really) nobody I know really cared about his song. All of the political debate is completely unnecessary, and just propaganda for our current government leaders who think they're still on the campaign trail and try to gain consensus even more by hitting hard on a guy who happened to be half-Egyptian and win Sanremo thanks to his song (and not because of a fanbase). It's clear that with this rise of populism and racism in Italy (and I'm not saying that is happening only in Italy, but it's happening in Italy) Mahmood is an easy target. I hope that won't discourage him and will still represent us, he deserves it.

 

[Pawhlen]

I am sure that [MENTION=15215]Euterpa[/MENTION] didn't make the same "accusation" for people here on the forum. What he meant I believe is that there is a lot of racism, not only in Italy, it is in Sweden, Denmark, France, Australia, Russia, Serbia and so on, all over the world. It's not only from all kinds of hard right-wing groups, but also from normal people that has too much free time and feeling disturbed in some way in life and write stupid crap in the comments to some songs, just to make them feel better themselves (which doesn't help, but they think it does). I am sure many dislikes this song, and I understand it completly, it is a rather different song, both for San Remo and for Eurovision, it isn't something we would normally see in either contest. On the forum we are trying to be respectful to be each other. Sometimes our feelings towards the contest we love makes us write stupid stuff too, and it happens to me as well, we all are just humans and we all have our faults and reasons to why it happens.

For example, I just can't stand the Montenegrin song, it is in genre I have never liked and never will and that is it. I don't go to RTCG or D-Moll and write that they are stupid for singing their song and that they should go hide in a corner somewhere and never show themselves again, or make some bad joke about their heritage or something. That is not necessary, that makes me just hurt their feelings and that is not okay.

xgood

 

[sucof]

however ULTIMO would never have won because in all 5 evenings IL VOLO had arrived first in the televoting (I think I understood this)

 

[Euterpa]

Oh, God. I'm quite surprised that even with a few Italians here everybody is kind of missing the point.
Unlike Eurovision, where we have a jury mostly because of neighbor and diaspora voting, in Italy we had to include a jury because of a streak of very questionable winners around 2009/2010: singers that took part in a talent show earlier in the year, and won against better songs because of their fanbase. Since the juries were reintroduced, we've seen many big artists making a comeback because this kind of voting has been "mitigated" to a certain extent, but not completely.

Since 2015, the winner of the televote has always won Sanremo (neither Il Volo or Meta and Moro won the press or expert vote, they mostly won because of their huge fanbase, but their songs weren't really rejected by the critics like Ultimo or Il Volo this year). Ultimo came to Sanremo with a really, really huge fanbase built since his Sanremo Giovani victory last year (and with some impressive songs released during the year), but "I miei particolari" disappointed almost all the music experts and didn't really impress people who aren't fans of him. Il Volo is also kind of hated in Italy, because they're seen as old-fashioned and incredibly stereotypical, they are what people outside of Italy think Italian music is, but they appeal to older people, who are a huge portion of Sanremo viewers and the ones who are more willing to spend money to vote for a singer.

Mahmood was the winner of this year's Sanremo Giovani, just two months ago, and nobody knew him. On the first night, he was the last to sing, around 1:00 PM, he had like less than half the esposure than Ultimo or Il Volo who, outside of the huge fanbase, sang around 22:30 PM. It was basically impossible for him to place well the first night. Despite everything, he made such an impression that he (as a NOBODY, really) was able to place seventh with the televote in the finale, and before that Soldi was alrealdy the most played song in the radio. That 14% is the total score of all the five nights: in the top 3 he was still third, but with 21%, which, trust me, is incredibly good for someone whose most famous song before Sanremo had something like 50k views on YT, and against the artists with the biggest fanbase out of all the 24.

If you look at the percentage of votes, Ultimo and Il Volo combined had something like around 50% of the votes even before the final 3. Is that because their songs were the ones Italians liked the most, or because they had a lot of fans who did everything to vote them? Their songs weren't that much better than the other ones. Il Volo wouldn't have even reached the Top 10 for the press and the jury, they were carried by the huge difference between them and Loredana, who placed third in the voting and was first for the press. In the end, seeing how much Ultimo and Il Volo were carried by the televote, the press and the jury were probably quite pissed (hey, they were also Loredana stans after all) and voted for Mahmood.

So it's not a "political vote" at all, if anything it's a clear signal from the press against the classical sanremese songs, that are kind of stuck in an awful cliché. Even Ultimo fell in that "trap", his last album is really good, but "I miei particolari" was so disappointing and dated. Outside of his fans (so... many people, really) nobody I know really cared about his song. All of the political debate is completely unnecessary, and just propaganda for our current government leaders who think they're still on the campaign trail and try to gain consensus even more by hitting hard on a guy who happened to be half-Egyptian and win Sanremo thanks to his song (and not because of a fanbase). It's clear that with this rise of populism and racism in Italy (and I'm not saying that is happening only in Italy, but it's happening in Italy) Mahmood is an easy target. I hope that won't discourage him and will still represent us, he deserves it.

This is very well explained and I actually agree with everything written. I still believe it was political to some extent, but I guess we can't escape that, it always happens to some extent in Eurovision, but I can accept that it wasn't the crucial thing here. I hope for the same. In bocca al lupo!

 

[Preuss]

Upgrading to 8 from 7

 

[oxy333]

All of the political debate is completely unnecessary, and just propaganda for our current government leaders who think they're still on the campaign trail and try to gain consensus even more by hitting hard on a guy who happened to be half-Egyptian and win Sanremo thanks to his song (and not because of a fanbase). It's clear that with this rise of populism and racism in Italy (and I'm not saying that is happening only in Italy, but it's happening in Italy) Mahmood is an easy target. I hope that won't discourage him and will still represent us, he deserves it.

Oh, God.

I think you miss the point, first of all there was no one "music expert" in juries, did you read the names? Ferzan Özpetek, Camila Raznovich, Claudia Pandolfi, Elena Sofia Ricci, Beppe Severgnini, Serena Dandini, Joe Bastianich... Do not talk about the press, a total bunch of ultras. They couldn't even choose the Zecchino d'Oro winner.
Second, again with the "populism and racism", so when Ermal Meta, Anna Oxa, Malika Ayane win we are not racist, instead when a "meh" song is righfully criticized but is sung by italo-egyptian, we are??
It's not fanbase or not fanbase, Irama (from Amici), Ultimo, Mahmood are all emergent singer.

Final, televote top10, before the three-way vote.

1) Ultimo 19,25%
2) Il Volo 17,65%
3) Bertè 9,49%
4) Irama 8,36%
5) Cristicchi 6,70%
6) Nigiotti 3,70%
7) Mahmood 3,49%
8) A.Lauro 3,45%
9) Daniele Silvestri 3,19%
10) Boomdabash 2,94%

You forgot that the audience of Sanremo have great expectations in Music, Voice, Lyrics. Rap/trap never go too well.

 

[Alaska49]

You forgot that the audience of Sanremo have great expectations in Music, Voice, Lyrics. Rap/trap never go too well.

well, clearly not that great if their winner was ultimo lol =)

 

[FilipFromSweden]

Ultimo is just pretentious af, barely a song?

 

[Peresvet]

If the winner of SanRemo gives up because of the haunting that takes place I immediately give Italy an automatic zero point.

ende

 

[sucof]

If the winner of SanRemo gives up because of the haunting that takes place I immediately give Italy an automatic zero point.

ende

but no!
in this interview he says that in the next few days he will give an answer for the eurovion.
He has not talked about controversy but he said that he is so busy at the moment that he wants to confirm calmly
at 101% he will represent Italy ;-)

 

[Citelis]

Ultimo's video is really bad! No need for soemthing like that even if he deserved to win!

 

[Edre]

Oh, God.

I think you miss the point, first of all there was no one "music expert" in juries, did you read the names? Ferzan Özpetek, Camila Raznovich, Claudia Pandolfi, Elena Sofia Ricci, Beppe Severgnini, Serena Dandini, Joe Bastianich... Do not talk about the press, a total bunch of ultras. They couldn't even choose the Zecchino d'Oro winner.
Second, again with the "populism and racism", so when Ermal Meta, Anna Oxa, Malika Ayane win we are not racist, instead when a "meh" song is righfully criticized but is sung by italo-egyptian, we are??
It's not fanbase or not fanbase, Irama (from Amici), Ultimo, Mahmood are all emergent singer.

Yes, they are, the small difference is that Irama has already sold around 300k copies, Ultimo even more, Mahmood hasn't even a single certified gold (the first one is going to be Soldi), so even if they are all new in the Italian music industry, Irama and Ultimo are waaaaay more popular and Ultimo has one hell of a huge fanbase. Do you really think that he deserved 50% of the votes in the final 3 for his song? That is delusion. It's an incredibly high score that doesn't and can't depend on the real success of his song, outside of his fans "I miei particolari" wasn't even that popular. I feel like the general Italians liked Loredana, Cristicchi and Silvestri way more than him.

If we're talking about the juries and the press, do you really think that the general public knows more than them, even if they're not musicians? At least they're not biased by reading the name of the performer like the general public has always done. I agree with you on some of the jurors, but remember that the president of the Jury was Pagani, who is probably one of the most competent musicians in Italy. Then again, that the song is "meh" is just your opinion, and the opinion of many Italians that are vocal in social media for all the wrong reasons, but for most of them the song is just a second thought.

Oh, God.

Final, televote top10, before the three-way vote.

1) Ultimo 19,25%
2) Il Volo 17,65%
3) Bertè 9,49%
4) Irama 8,36%
5) Cristicchi 6,70%
6) Nigiotti 3,70%
7) Mahmood 3,49%
8) A.Lauro 3,45%
9) Daniele Silvestri 3,19%
10) Boomdabash 2,94%

You forgot that the audience of Sanremo have great expectations in Music, Voice, Lyrics. Rap/trap never go too well.

That is the top 10 of the last night, when people already knew most of the songs, but outside of that it doesn't fit at all with what you're saying afterwards. Great expectations in music, voice and lyrics and Ultimo is first with one of the most sanremese songs with meh lyrics and a really weak voice? Il Volo is second with possibly the worst lyrics in the entire contest (and let's not start with that "but they are the best singers" because they are not, their style is just a weird way to emulate opera while singing, their vocal technique is questionable)? And despite Loredana is a queen, she had neither the best vocals or the best lyrics, same with Irama.

If we're talking about lyrics, then the top 3 should have been Daniele Silvestri, Simone Cristicchi and The Zen Circus BY FAR. If we're talking about voice then Arisa was the best. Talking about music... Well, out of ten songs here the top six are generally generic sanremese songs, what you're basically saying is that Italians only want songs that respect the usual "canon" of an emotional ballad with generic instrumentation. Maybe that's true for Sanremo, but personally I'm tired of sending that kind of songs, even if they do well at ESC. I really fear that soon Italian music will be seen as "Sanremo music", which is not true, and I'm really glad we might be represented by a different kind of song, outside of the possible placement.

 

[BorisBubbles]

lol @ "meh" song.

Yes, that's why the vast majority of people in this poll gave Soldi 12; 10 and 8. That's why most non-Italians in this thread have expressed positive feelings about it. That's why Soldi is currently topping most Youtube lists for this year. Definitely a meh song that doesn't speak to people. Got it.

 

[oxy333]

well, clearly not that great if their winner was ultimo lol =)

Ultimo and Il Volo (after Arisa got sick with fever) were the least worst vocally, yes my opinion.

 

[Citelis]

This one has more potential than Ultimo i believe and personally i liked Ultimo more!

 

[oxy333]

lol @ "meh" song.

Yes, that's why the vast majority of people in this poll gave Soldi 12; 10 and 8. That's why most non-Italians in this thread have expressed positive feelings about it. That's why Soldi is currently topping most Youtube lists for this year. Definitely a meh song that doesn't speak to people. Got it.

It's called taste this is why it is better suited to Eurovision environments than to Sanremo.

 

[oxy333]

Yes, they are, the small difference is that Irama has already sold around 300k copies, Ultimo even more, Mahmood hasn't even a single certified gold (the first one is going to be Soldi), so even if they are all new in the Italian music industry, Irama and Ultimo are waaaaay more popular and Ultimo has one hell of a huge fanbase. Do you really think that he deserved 50% of the votes in the final 3 for his song? That is delusion. It's an incredibly high score that doesn't and can't depend on the real success of his song, outside of his fans "I miei particolari" wasn't even that popular. I feel like the general Italians liked Loredana, Cristicchi and Silvestri way more than him.

If we're talking about the juries and the press, do you really think that the general public knows more than them, even if they're not musicians? At least they're not biased by reading the name of the performer like the general public has always done. I agree with you on some of the jurors, but remember that the president of the Jury was Pagani, who is probably one of the most competent musicians in Italy. Then again, that the song is "meh" is just your opinion, and the opinion of many Italians that are vocal in social media for all the wrong reasons, but for most of them the song is just a second thought.




That is the top 10 of the last night, when people already knew most of the songs, but outside of that it doesn't fit at all with what you're saying afterwards. Great expectations in music, voice and lyrics and Ultimo is first with one of the most sanremese songs with meh lyrics and a really weak voice? Il Volo is second with possibly the worst lyrics in the entire contest (and let's not start with that "but they are the best singers" because they are not, their style is just a weird way to emulate opera while singing, their vocal technique is questionable)? And despite Loredana is a queen, she had neither the best vocals or the best lyrics, same with Irama.

If we're talking about lyrics, then the top 3 should have been Daniele Silvestri, Simone Cristicchi and The Zen Circus BY FAR. If we're talking about voice then Arisa was the best. Talking about music... Well, out of ten songs here the top six are generally generic sanremese songs, what you're basically saying is that Italians only want songs that respect the usual "canon" of an emotional ballad with generic instrumentation. Maybe that's true for Sanremo, but personally I'm tired of sending that kind of songs, even if they do well at ESC. I really fear that soon Italian music will be seen as "Sanremo music", which is not true, and I'm really glad we might be represented by a different kind of song, outside of the possible placement.

Edre, you are a fan of the jury members? Say it I think that a group of 5 years old can judge better than them, musically. Of course I talk about my opinions, as you of yours, I have to repeat it?
I disagree, even the more famous singer cannot gain victory with a bad song, if you're ESC's fan you should know this. Fans are not enough. Doesn't matter how much likes or visualization you got on videos and fb page. I understood that you don't like Ultimo but we are not talking about him. Personal tastes are not in discussion.
Yes, thanks God italians have better ears than "giuria d'onore", and it's called democracy or it works only when coincide with someone you like? Read what I wrote to Alaska49.

My opinions.
Music, Voice and Lyrics, a great song have all of them. Loredana Bertè have good music and a lyrics sufficient. Ultimo, is a songwriter, good voice, good lyrics, music sufficient. Cristicchi, GREAT Lyrics but not a catchy song, Silvestri, good lyrics. Nothing else special.

Sanremo is a totally different thing compared to ESC. The songs competing in Sanremo are not selected based on which is the most suitable for ESC.


(I've never wrote so much on this forum XD )