Finland FINLAND 2023 - Käärijä - Cha Cha Cha

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[SAYAY]

I saw someone on Norwegian jodel in the Eurovision channel there (im not sure if that app is a worldwide thing but its popular in the nordic countries at least I think) talking about how they were hoping Käärijä would show up at VG Lista (big norwegian free concert) but of course he has a gig on the same day and there were some broken hearts when they learned that Would have been cool though!

 

[Storm]

So you talk in hypotheticals to prove a point. Nothing wrong in 340 jury points, apparently the other artists were just sh*t and on the same level as Käärijä or below. Gotcha. Hail Belting-Kween Loreen.

What hypotheticals? These are literally the results! Finland +130 in the televote, Loreen +190 in the jury vote. Nothing about that is hypothetical or overly surprising or shocking or egregious. Sure you can make a case that Loreen's jury result should/could be lower, around 300 or whatever, but a) would that not change the outcome because 280-290 is enough for her to win and b) is Käärijä's own jury result just as inflated as Loreen's is.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

What hypotheticals? These are literally the results! Finland +130 in the televote, Loreen +190 in the jury vote. Nothing about that is hypothetical or overly surprising or shocking or egregious. Sure you can make a case that Loreen's jury result should/could be lower, around 300 or whatever, but a) would that not change the outcome because 280-290 is enough for her to win and b) is Käärijä's own jury result just as inflated as Loreen's is.

If Loreen would have got 280 instead of 340, that would have meant someone else would have earned that points and, quite possibly, this someone would have stolen some points to Käärja too, because there is no way he would have been that someone. That means Loreen would have won anyway.

 

[Chorizo]

In a press conference they did ask him if he'd be down for returning in the contest through interval acts etc. like with some returning acts this year and he would be happy to do that if asked.

SVT should feature him as an interval act next year as a friendly gesture.

 

[MopManMoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1657482279369703426

 

[Franzilein]

What hypotheticals? These are literally the results! Finland +130 in the televote, Loreen +190 in the jury vote. Nothing about that is hypothetical or overly surprising or shocking or egregious. Sure you can make a case that Loreen's jury result should/could be lower, around 300 or whatever, but a) would that not change the outcome because 280-290 is enough for her to win and b) is Käärijä's own jury result just as inflated as Loreen's is.

I was talking about your previous comment concerning "let's take away some points" yada yada. Yeah, pretty sure the outrage would be pretty similar, if not bigger, if we saw Finland leading with 376 (!) public points and then the announcer came along and said "The jury has awarded Sweden 340 points". It's the same story of the audience not having its clear favourite win, doesn't matter how you turn it.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

You should not be a televote winner to win Eurovision: Jamala actually didn't won the Jury vote, didn't won the televote, but won Eurovision. I didn't saw all this fuss back then... Eurovision is cruel, otherwise Albina from Croatia would have qualified in 2021... Sometimes things don't go our way...

 

[Franzilein]

You should not be a televote winner to win Eurovision: Jamala actually didn't won the Jury vote, didn't won the televote, but won Eurovision. I didn't saw all this fuss back then... Eurovision is cruel, otherwise Albina from Croatia would have qualified in 2021... Sometimes things don't go our way...

If you don't see the difference between 323/361 public points and 243/376 and don't get why people are upset, then it can't be helped I suppose.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

If you don't see the difference between 323/361 public points and 243/376 and don't get why people are upset, then it can't be helped I suppose.

I get why people is upset, I don't get why they don't accept this could have been a scenario from day one since the introduction of the new voting system in 2016 which is by the way accepted by all artists and delegations before Eurovision even started.

You can't be that upset over something artists themselves have accepted. Case closed.

 

[Pussipiru]

 

[Storm]

I was talking about your previous comment concerning "let's take away some points" yada yada. Yeah, pretty sure the outrage would be pretty similar, if not bigger, if we saw Finland leading with 376 (!) public points and then the announcer came along and said "The jury has awarded Sweden 340 points". It's the same story of the audience not having its clear favourite win, doesn't matter how you turn it.

Umm, I hope you are aware that you and others started with the hypothetical scenario of Käärijä winning all 12 points which is why I replied with a hypothetical scenario myself (that Loreen also would have won with a worse jury result)??

 

[Storm]

I get why people is upset, I don't get why they don't accept this could have been a scenario from day one since the introduction of the new voting system in 2016 which is by the way accepted by all artists and delegations before Eurovision even started.

You can't be that upset over something artists themselves have accepted. Case closed.

That's another good point people love to ignore. We currently have a system that allows delegations to go for jury or televote points. And then people are upset or stunned that a song that is designated for televotes beats a song that is designated for jury votes in the televote, and therefore think that this is the 'right winner'? Who knows what other countries (including Sweden) would have sent to Eurovision if there were indeed no juries at all!

 

[AliceEsc]

I get why people is upset, I don't get why they don't accept this could have been a scenario from day one since the introduction of the new voting system in 2016 which is by the way accepted by all artists and delegations before Eurovision even started.

You can't be that upset over something artists themselves have accepted. Case closed.

Case closed for 2023 and the years prior. I saw it coming and I accept it. But there is Eurovision 2024 and so on. The flaws in the current system I think are worth mentioning if we ever want to see a change.

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

I expect of juries, unlike televoters who usually have 3-4 big favourites, to like a huge variety of songs. That’s why we have juries right? To vote for musical variety that televoters don’t because they are biased.

How can it be that juries all vote for the same song? It bothered me already in the past and this year even more when we had a lot of different and creative songs (unlike last year when juries basically only had ballads mostly to choose from).

I would expect some jury to award some of their 12s to Czechia, some to Serbia, some Portugal, some to Norway, some to Slovenia… to distribute their points more balanced. All of them creative, fresh songs.

Exactly, this year was full of well produced songs, innovative, of different genres, and sang by pretty good vocalists.

It's impossible that the difference btw 1st jury song and 2nd best is 163 points.

Also, can anyone explain to me Mimicat's 43 points or Albania's 17?

 

[Ezio]

I wanted Finland so bad

She was ready to risk it all 𤣠#shorts

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Now I need therapy after my wish to the universe has been so shunned by the evils, that summoned 666k twitter followers for @Eurovision at Eurovision and made the Queen of Ayahuasca their new Ishtar. It’s scary, not party.

Here is my pain

If that person ignored Youð PSYCHOLOGY FACTS ð¯ #psychologyfacts #psychology #shorts

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[midnightsun]

If Loreen would have got 280 instead of 340, that would have meant someone else would have earned that points and, quite possibly, this someone would have stolen some points to Käärja too, because there is no way he would have been that someone. That means Loreen would have won anyway.

Not necessarily? Why? In which scenario wouldn’t Finland win if Loreen got 100 jury points less? The average jury points for the winner were about 200 points in the last years.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Exactly, this year was full of well produced songs, innovative, of different genres, and sang by pretty good vocalists.

It's impossible that the difference btw 1st jury song and 2nd best is 163 points.

Also, can anyone explain to me Mimicat's 43 points or Albania's 17?

Albania had an awful draw... I must say the most terrible draw in the entire competition. I mean: 8th Spain, 9th Sweden, 10th ALBANIA, 11th Italy, 12th Estonia, 13th Finland. Both the songs before Albina & Family and all three songs after came top 10 with the Juries. Devastating running order for real.

Portugal deserved more... I agree...

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Not necessarily? Why? In which scenario wouldn’t Finland win if Loreen got 100 jury points less? The average jury points for the winner were about 200 points in the last years.

Easy: let's pretend Loreen is a 12 pointer for the Jury of, let's say, Norway, and Finland is the 10 pointer. If Norway would have preferred Belgium and gave its 12 points to Belgium, Loreen would have earned only 10 points instead of 12, but Käärja in that case would have only earned 8 and not 10... So in that case both would have lost points from the Juries... You are not taking into consideration this option: Loreen losing points with the Juries wouldn't have been enough for Käärja to win. Loreen should have scored 100 points less AND Käärja shouldn't have lost any of the points earned by himself in order to win or should have stolen himself some 12 from Loreen.

 

[Ezio]

Salena told Käärijä, please win for me! (heart breaks)

Käärijän matka Euroviisuihin, osa 3: Finaali

Mitä tapahtui kulisseissa euroviisufinaalin aikana? Käärijän finaalipäivä aamusta iltaan viisufinaalipäivänä! Voitontahdosta pettymyksiin, Käärijän matka Eur...

www.youtube.com

 

[Storm]

Not necessarily? Why? In which scenario wouldn’t Finland win if Loreen got 100 jury points less? The average jury points for the winner were about 200 points in the last years.

But why would you subtract 100 points? I think you're looking at the jury points of the overall winners? Why not at the jury winners though.

Salvador Sobral (2017) - 382
Mans Zelmerlöw (2015) - 363
Loreen (2023) - 340
Dami Im (2016) - 320
Alexander Rybak (2009) - 312
Loreen (2012) - 296
Sam Ryder (2022) - 283
Cesar Sampson (2018) - 271
Gjon's Tears (2021) - 267
Raphael Gualazzi (2011) - 251
Tamara Todevska (2019) - 247
Conchita Wurst (2014) - 224
Lena (2010) - 187

Now Loreen's result is obviously very much at the top, especially considering there were three juries less than in 2017. BUT Loreen would have won with the jury score of the first 7 winners, would have lost with the score of the last 6. So a compelling, good, healthy but not outrageously good jury win would've been enough for her to take it.