EUROVISION 2023 - FINAL REHEARSALS AND LIVE SHOW DISCUSSION

[FilipFromSweden]

Sweden is a completely calculated machine. They could never cope with their failure 2010

Eurovision fans love to think this, when in actuality Sweden is just some caveman that's like ooo fire. Sure, the Swedish hardcore fan is calculated *looks into the mirror* but most Swedes don't have scoring well in Eurovision in mind when they vote in Melfest.

 

[0scar]

Then what do you mean? Finland was the people's favorite, it got the most televotes. When it comes to streams, they were around 4th at best or something (I cba to check), and their jury score was 4th. So what's your problem with my argument?

I don't have any problems with your argument, for good time's sake I agree that popularity should be considered in the jury vote, but then you shouldn't be cherry picking and agree that Finland might have been underrated by the juries.
I'm not stating that Finland should have won the jury vote based on this, mind you.

You measure popularity just by streams, which is one way to measure it, albeit definitely not the only one. Streams are influenced by other factors as well (Italy always has high streaming figures, mainly Italians due to the popularity of San Remo; Tattoo was a song by a former Eurovision winner), the only thing we now know for sure is that Finland was apparently the most popular song in the contest.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

No

That's the gamble and risk the artists are willing to take by participating.

That's the point: I think artists expecially nowadays choose Eurovision not to gamble but to have a breakout success, and rightfully so. In the last few years lots of Eurovision acts had huge breakouts, so more and more artists approached Eurovision. If you put too much gambles, the good ones will eventually try other ways out and eventually, if they are good enough, they will reach success anyway.

We are too focused on which country wins, which country loses, which is on a streak. But in the end all that doesn't even matter, if not for the statistics or the record books. It matters the most for us, the people. It matters for the artists too, but on a minor scale: Käärja will digest his second place when he realizes he already won, he already reached his goal, the goal of everyone making music: being internationally succesful with one of his songs, being loved by the people, by his public.

 

[GermanBango]

Eurovision 2023 Artists in Green Room and Backstage

Some iconic, memorable, funny or cute moments of the Eurovision 2023 artists in the green room and backstage of the live shows.Comment your favourites moment...

www.youtube.com

Honestly videos like these always give me certain kind of ... idk hope, I guess? Coming together, having a party without borders at least for three nights - that's what Eurovision will always be about in the first place.

 

[cegs5]

About business perspective a win in Eurovision doesn't count much. Rosa Linn last year earn tons of £€$ coming 20th in Eurovision. And EBU actually earned tons of £€$ from advertisement and the contest being as always the most followed musical event.

You either miss the point of my post or are in denial.

 

[Bmbriga]

Perhaps I'm late to the party, and I realize it's eyeroll-inducing of a Swede to defend the jury system but here's my two cents. The Eurovision juries have several times by hardcore fans been questioned regarding their ''professional'' status, which I've sometimes agreed with. However, as Eurovision is a song contest in which popularity is one factor to win, I think it makes a point for the juries legitimacy that the juries put Sweden and (almost) Italy in the top 2, the songs with the largest amount of streams. On the Sunday, Loreen beat Måneskin's 2021 Sunday record of streams, so I'm not buying any argument about it being a weak song or that it was unfair etc etc.

I'm sorry, but since when does streaming has anything to do with ESC?
It's a competition watched by millions of different age and background who mostly see the songs for the first time.
Who cares about streams? Why didn't those streamers call?
I don't understand why do even have ESC.
We should just give an award to the European song with most streams at the end of the year.
If it's completely normal for a jury to give most of the points to the song with streams, we can just get rid of them. Why having them?

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

I'm sorry, but since when does streaming has anything to do with ESC?
It's a competition watched by millions of different age and background who mostly see the songs for the first time.
Who cares about streams? Why didn't those streamers call?
I don't understand why do even have ESC.
We should just give an award to the European song with most streams at the end of the year.
If it's completely normal for a jury to give most of the points to the song with streams, we can just get rid of them. Why having them?

Swedish Spotify calculates the winner based on its forceable marketing streams you can't skip and voila, there we have, a winner!

EDIT: No the winner wouldn't have been Sweden, absolutely not

 

[Ezio]

I'm sorry, but since when does streaming has anything to do with ESC?
It's a competition watched by millions of different age and background who mostly see the songs for the first time.
Who cares about streams? Why didn't those streamers call?
I don't understand why do even have ESC.
We should just give an award to the European song with most streams at the end of the year.
If it's completely normal for a jury to give most of the points to the song with streams, we can just get rid of them. Why having them?

OK, Italy and Sweden winning every year, because they are the countries with most streams on every occassion.

Maybe pick the winner by youtube clicks, also? Everytime I watch a random Eurovision clip, the next one is either Heroes or Euphoria. They can win Eurovision by default every year than. 2023 Heroes, 2024 Euphoria and so on.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

I'm sorry, but since when does streaming has anything to do with ESC?
It's a competition watched by millions of different age and background who mostly see the songs for the first time.
Who cares about streams? Why didn't those streamers call?
I don't understand why do even have ESC.
We should just give an award to the European song with most streams at the end of the year.
If it's completely normal for a jury to give most of the points to the song with streams, we can just get rid of them. Why having them?

It’s a music competition, so number of streams is a relevant factor in my opinion. I know I’m not the only one as people went crazy over Måneskin dominating the worldwide charts 2021. If the most streamed song won then I don’t see a reason to say it didn’t deserve to win. She is now at #5 on the world chart which is unprecedented for a Eurovision song

 

[LakZaNokte]

Calling dibs on "the jock"

Wtf.
I already went into cougar mode, called it earlier.

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

It’s a music competition, so number of streams is a relevant factor in my opinion. I know I’m not the only one as people went crazy over Måneskin dominating the worldwide charts 2021. If the most streamed song won then I don’t see a reason to say it didn’t deserve to win. She is now at #5 on the world chart which is unprecedented for a Eurovision song

Well judging by YouTube, Let 3 / Croatia had won Eurovision. They hold a record there for most streamed ESC song when you put all videos of Mama ŠČ together.

See now that this logic is flawed.

 

[Bmbriga]

It’s a music competition, so number of streams is a relevant factor in my opinion. I know I’m not the only one as people went crazy over Måneskin dominating the worldwide charts 2021. If the most streamed song won then I don’t see a reason to say it didn’t deserve to win. She is now at #5 on the world chart which is unprecedented for a Eurovision song

Well, in Cro top 50 Spotify Finland is second, Bejba is fifth and Austria 8th and Tattoo is not even in top 50, so I think we should take back not only our 10 jury points, but also 2 televote points back, because the crazy people with telephones didn't get the memo that the holy Spotify had spoken.

Or should Croatian jury check stream numbers in Sweden before giving votes in the name of Croatia?

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

Well, in Cro top 50 Spotify Finland is second, Bejba is fifth and Austria 8th and Tattoo is not even in top 50, so I think we should take back not only our 10 jury points, but also 2 televote points back, because the crazy people with telephones didn't get the memo that the holy Spotify had spoken.

Or should Croatian jury check stream numbers in Sweden before giving votes in the name of Croatia?

I wanted to stay positive and didn't want to tell him that Kaarija took over Loreen in our trends in 24 hrs after MelFest finals, but there you are

 

[GermanBango]

Wtf.
I already went into cougar mode, called it earlier.

Maybe there is enough Andrew for both of us. I don’t mind sharing.

 

[Underdark]

I've listened to an interview that Damir Kedžo gave. He was in the croatian jury and the only one that gave Finland the 1st place. He said that they got a memo saying something like: if the singer is off key give subtract them a point, if the perforamnce is boring substract them a point, if nothing interesting is happening on the stage substarct tehm a point. And there is a lot of scrutiny apparently and judges can get disqulified. apparently Kaarija was off key on the rehersal and Damir siad: I don't care, they can disqualify me but i'm giving Finland my first place.
this gives a lot of interesting things to think about if it's true.

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

I've listened to an interview that Damir Kedžo gave. He was in the croatian jury and the only one that gave Finland the 1st place. He said that they got a memo saying something like: if the singer is off key give subtract them a point, if the perforamnce is boring substract them a point, if nothing interesting is happening on the stage substarct tehm a point. And there is a lot of scrutiny apparently and judges can get disqulified. apparently Kaarija was off key on the rehersal and Damir siad: I don't care, they can disqualify me but i'm giving Finland my first place.
this gives a lot of interesting things to think about if it's true.

So Blanca Paloma was off-key?



The juries and EBU both are laughable.

 

[Bmbriga]

So Blanca Paloma was off-key?



The juries and EBU both are laughable.

No. She falls under the "performance is boring" category

 

[FilipFromSweden]

Well, in Cro top 50 Spotify Finland is second, Bejba is fifth and Austria 8th and Tattoo is not even in top 50, so I think we should take back not only our 10 jury points, but also 2 televote points back, because the crazy people with telephones didn't get the memo that the holy Spotify had spoken.

Or should Croatian jury check stream numbers in Sweden before giving votes in the name of Croatia?

Oh please, I didn't say streams are the end-all-be-all. It's perfectly fine on a subjective level to say you don't like Tattoo, but objectively it's doing the best among the 2023 entries, which was my point. In my opinion, if a song does really well outside of the competition it's an indicator that it has objective quality to it. Sometimes I feel like you all know what I mean but you just like to be bitches about it

I wanted to stay positive and didn't want to tell him that Kaarija took over Loreen in our trends in 24 hrs after MelFest finals, but there you are

You don't need to talk about me like I'm not here, it's rude

 

[PollyWantsACracker]

No. She falls under the "performance is boring" category

Ahahahhahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahaha

Kedzo talks nonsense to conceal he gave a 12 to Sweden.

Vocals can't be assessed like that because that would presuppose that a juror knows by heart the studio recordings of all 25 songs, so that he could detect when an artist missed a note.

There are actually elements that all vocal trainers assess first:

1. Vocal range
2. Natural vocal standard pitch
3. Vocal colour
4. Natural limitations affecting colour and highest possible pitch (nasal voice, laringal tone)
5. Dynamics (that's actually ability to adjust the voice to different tempo, metrics, pitches, colours, moods, throughout the song, or, that's singing craft that makes difference btw an amateur and a professional)
6. Technical difficulty of a song and its style

After all of that we can talk about whether an artist has hit all of the tones / notes right and how that weighs out all of the above.

If these were EBU's instructions, what I doubt, well no wonder jury result is what it is

@FilipFromSweden hi Filip I know you're here. I'm just posting from my mobile so it's difficult to quote several posts at once.

 

[Bmbriga]

Oh please, I didn't say streams are the end-all-be-all. It's perfectly fine on a subjective level to say you don't like Tattoo, but objectively it's doing the best among the 2023 entries, which was my point. In my opinion, if a song does really well outside of the competition it's an indicator that it has objective quality to it. Sometimes I feel like you all know what I mean but you just like to be bitches about it

It most certainly doesn't.
And again, who is the arbitrator of that? ESC is a competition of countries and as I said Croatian jury gave load of points to the song Croatian public didn't really vote for and it doesn't stream.
So, songs that are popular in countries that stream more are automatically "quality", because they have more streams or what?
Also, Bejba is probably in the top 5 of most streamed songs from this ESC. It must have been because of it's high quality.

And no, I'm probably one of the least butthurt people about Sweden's victory, but I also find your stream argument silly.