EUROVISION 2023 - FINAL REHEARSALS AND LIVE SHOW DISCUSSION

[midnightsun]

You don't need to talk about me like I'm not here, it's rude

You calling me "dumbass" amongst other things are talking about rude?

About the voting sheet with criteria. I think the jurors get them in some way, at least it was told on a German podcast a few years ago.

Objectively neither Sweden nor Finland are contenders for the 12 jury points but if SOME juries think they deserve them it‘s fine but nearly ALL juries in case of Sweden… nah.

 

[midnightsun]

If you look at all the backstage footage, most artists chanted Cha cha cha with the crowd or went to Käärijä to party with him. Most other artists loved him. They didn’t do it with Loreen.
Voyager said, he was the hardest working artist of the whole contest!

 

[nudiecrudi]

She is now at #5 on the world chart which is unprecedented for a Eurovision song

You forgot Brividi my dear 3.380.000 in one day
Not every record is Swedish

 

[FilipFromSweden]

You forgot Brividi my dear 3.380.000 in one day
Not every record is Swedish

The record I'm talking about is 4.275 million streams for Tattoo last Sunday. Good for Brividi though love that song

 

[FilipFromSweden]

It most certainly doesn't.

Which part of ''my opinion'' do you not understand?

You calling me "dumbass" amongst other things are talking about rude?

Sometimes I say things when I'm angry and regret it. Calling you a dumbass is not one of them, you were asking for it.

 

[soulm8]

This community never disappoints. Hate everywhere. Like move on, every year we have one winner and the rest are moaning how unfair it is. You know what, life is unfair. Loreen is one of the deserving winners, I never gonna be ashamed of the contest if they show her to a big group of people as a winner of it. The song is still the only played on our TV, so yeah very unfair win.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

OK, Italy and Sweden winning every year, because they are the countries with most streams on every occassion.

Maybe pick the winner by youtube clicks, also? Everytime I watch a random Eurovision clip, the next one is either Heroes or Euphoria. They can win Eurovision by default every year than. 2023 Heroes, 2024 Euphoria and so on.

Or maybe Italy and Sweden are succesful because they put effort in their entries every single year, their National Finals, despite being through some ups and downs, are among the strongest in Europe, where thousands of people apply, a bunch is able to perform live and only one survives in a split jury/televote system.

Eurovision success = strong National Final. The 5 most successful countries in those three years on average were Italy, Ukraine, Sweden, Finland And Norway. And Sanremo, Vidbir, Melodifestivalen, UMK and MGP are most definitely the best 5 National Finals right now. I found hilarious nobody realized it...

It's obvious those 5 countries will send strong and competitive entries as long as their NF's are strong and competitive. And it's only natural they have a huge reception when their songs for Eurovision came out, becuase more and more people know how difficult it is for an artists to succeed in those events.

If other countries feel discouraged it is their own problem: you can't expect others to change just because you are not succesful! Put more effort in what you do in order to be more succesful one day! Finland is an example: a country which was almost every time struggling to qualify is now a strong country in Eurovision, because they improved internally, the quality of their NF improved a lot and YLE was capable to grab the attention of their best artists out there... But the majority of the other countries and other broadcasters, what do they do? They are constantly complaining about the same countries being successful despite not doing anything to dethrone them.

 

[midnightsun]

Sometimes I say things when I'm angry and regret it. Calling you a dumbass is not one of them, you were asking for it.

I was ASKING for it?

Because what?

Because I wrote juries are voting according to the betting odds?

Which - surprise surprise - someone of our broadcaster NDR confirmed yesterday!

(So I hope people will finally stop attacking me for that!)

But feel free to call me what you want, it says more about you than me. Very grown up.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I was ASKING for it?

Because what?

Because I wrote juries are voting according to the betting odds?

Which - surprise surprise - someone of our broadcaster NDR confirmed yesterday!

(So I hope people will finally stop attacking me for that!)

But feel free to call me what you want, it says more about you than me. Very grown up.

If so betting odds should be banned. No more odds about Eurovision (and I think it's about time!). Eurovision will lose money? Doesn't matter... It will lose even more many if people watching from home will lose all its interest because of underwhelming results affected by odds.

 

[nudiecrudi]

The record I'm talking about is 4.275 million streams for Tattoo last Sunday. Good for Brividi though love that song

Yes but also Brividi got 5th worldwide

 

[midnightsun]

In case someone is interested what he said:

He said that it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. He took Tattoo as an example. Jurors take a look at the odds. And even if some juror didn’t like Loreen‘s song he or she would be ending up placing it second or third or fourth in his ranking because he would be too embarrassed to rank it lower then.

I am surprised he openly talked about that. But he was also pissed of NDR about how they treat Eurovision and talked openly about it.

I wrote something similar (even used the the same wording: self fulfilling prophecy) a few weeks and already one, two years ago because I knew it from my sources but nobody believed me.

But, I never understood why it’s so hard for people to believe.

What do you think would happen if an Azeri loves the Armenien song secretly and places it first in his ranking?
What do you think would happen if on Saturday Finland’s juror put Loreen last?
Reputation is at stake and claims of cheating would rise. Or even worse (AZE - ARM): it can be dangerous. Yes I know they didn’t rank each other last for the first time this year but I am talking about past years.

Many jurors are too afraid of not voting according to the betting odds. Truth is, many of them have no clue about Eurovision and they need the betting odds to get a reference of what is trend.

The betting odds influence juries (and in a way also the public) and the betting odds can be easily manipulated if someone is betting on a certain country. It’s a vicious cycle.

 

[empo21]

So what I'm understanding is that not only are most jurors politically biased, now they're also betting odds-biased how nice

So any country can just do a Malta 2021 and inflate their odds/views whatever then...

 

[midnightsun]

I don’t know if MOST jurors are influenced but MANY at least. Of course - if there are betting odds out there they‘ll look. As much as the public. Why not? It can’t be avoided. Of course they are influenced by other stuff too like social media.

I don’t say most didn’t like Loreen‘s song. Objectively it’s top 5 material and every juror with a bit of experience would rank this high anyway, even if they didn’t saw the odds. But the huge percentage she was ahead in the odds reflects perfectly the huge margin she won with.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

So what I'm understanding is that not only are most jurors politically biased, now they're also betting odds-biased how nice

So any country can just to a Malta 2021 and inflate their odds/views whatever then...

Well, they tried to do so, but failed eventually...

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I don’t know if MOST jurors are influenced but MANY at least. Of course - if there are betting odds out there they‘ll look. As much as the public. Why not? It can’t be avoided. Of course they are influenced by other stuff too like social media.

Italian jurors for sure aren't influenced: Loreen getting 0 with Euphoria and 3 with Tattoo are good examples. But maybe because we had our previous problems and scandals in Sanremo too, so they are more used to think on their own.

But then you have to face the hordesof people thinking you are cheating because you drag down the favourites, like last year when our jury gave a fat 0 to Chanel and spaniards were fuming... So people will complaining anyway.

 

[empo21]

Well, they tried to do so, but failed eventually...

It still skews the jury score though

 

[midnightsun]

Italian jurors for sure aren't influenced

Yes, I think Italians always do a bit of their own thing

I never said every juror votes accordingly to the betting odds. There were a few exceptions when the betting odds didn’t correlate with the jury voting in some cases.
But in past years they often voted likewise.

One can argue if the song is good they bet on it and jurors would reward it anyway, with or without odds. But we also had songs that were high in the betting odds and high with the juries but not with the public. More than vice versa.

Anyway, this is not new and not worth to evaluate the topic again and again.

Question is: what can be changed to avoid it? The Eurovision odds already existed in the - I don’t know, like forever? I know they existed in the 80s already, not sure if before but I think they did.
And even if we didn’t have them juries would still see what is doing well on social media etc.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

If so betting odds should be banned. No more odds about Eurovision (and I think it's about time!). Eurovision will lose money? Doesn't matter... It will lose even more many if people watching from home will lose all its interest because of underwhelming results affected by odds.

This isn't North Korea, you can't shut down an entire multi-billion industry just because you're into some conspiracy about the juries. You'd have to have every government in the world ban it.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

In case someone is interested what he said:

He said that it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. He took Tattoo as an example. Jurors take a look at the odds. And even if some juror didn’t like Loreen‘s song he or she would be ending up placing it second or third or fourth in his ranking because he would be too embarrassed to rank it lower then.

I am surprised he openly talked about that. But he was also pissed of NDR about how they treat Eurovision and talked openly about it.

I never said this. I can speak for myself and so can you. If anyone is interested in what I actually said (which I don't think anyone actually is), my post history is available like everyone elses is.

 

[AndroZeus]

I never said this. I can speak for myself and so can you. If anyone is interested in what I actually said (which I don't think anyone actually is), my post history is available like everyone elses is.

Um, I'm pretty sure midnightsun was talking about a German juror, and not you...

On a different note, I'd just like to point out that Loreen got 66.6% of the max vote, and I'm not implying anything, but I'm also not NOT implying anything.