EUROVISION 2023 - FINAL REHEARSALS AND LIVE SHOW DISCUSSION

[Citelis]

This shows everyone was trying to vote fairly except for most juries.

Honestly, Sweden‘s backlash is their own fault because they were trying soooo hard, by every means, to make that victory happen. They wanted it and they did it, by all means.
I think this is the reason why people are fed up with Sweden. Nobody likes overachiever if they reach their goals by foul play. They are imposters. They built the myth around them being Europe‘s greatest and people now standing in awe when they hear the name of Eurovision and Sweden in one sentence.
Even people who have nothing to do with Eurovision know the legend that Sweden is the biggest country in Eurovision. I had this talks a few times with casual people.
I wish Germany would give their big 5 spot to Sweden. So Sweden would have to pay at least for their own show.

Actually Finland wanted to win more than Sweden this year. The whole country was rooting for it but it didn't have a good ending for them!

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

This shows everyone was trying to vote fairly except for most juries.

Honestly, Sweden‘s backlash is their own fault because they were trying soooo hard, by every means, to make that victory happen. They wanted it and they did it, by all means.
I think this is the reason why people are fed up with Sweden. Nobody likes overachiever if they reach their goals by foul play. They are imposters. They built the myth around them being Europe‘s greatest and people now standing in awe when they hear the name of Eurovision and Sweden in one sentence.
Even people who have nothing to do with Eurovision know the legend that Sweden is the biggest country in Eurovision. I had this talks a few times with casual people.
I wish Germany would give their big 5 spot to Sweden. So Sweden would have to pay at least for their own show.

People is fed up with everyone who is more successful then themselves in real life, imagine the hatred they spread towards a country successful in a musical event. Honestly, Sweden isn't the best Eurovision Country, it's among the best to achieve good results. It's different. They know exactly how to be succesful in Eurovision, like Ukraine, like Italy (hilariously enough, because talians didn't give an actual fuck about Eurovision for decades). But the same thing happened in the past, with different countries: France and Luxembourg were the powerhouses in '60s and '70s, Ireland and the Uk dominated the scene in the '80s and '90s. None of those countries experienced the hatred Sweden is receiving.

And maybe, just maybe, this is really Sweden's fault. They received that kind of hate not because they are winning, but because of the attitude of superiority they share when they win. Everybody likes Sweden as a host... Well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually don't: they organized Eurovision editions like autocelebrative parades, with puns on how they were not the best, because all people knows Ireland's the best with their 7 wins, and they were close but not enough, all that with a grin on their faces just to say: "Now we are the best and Ireland rots in the hell of semis, watch us because here we come!". Their editions were production wise fantastic, but there were plenty of those moments which I absolutely despised. There, finally I said it.

 

[hawadharma]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1657530332692766720

Wait what???

OMG its identical

Anyway Tattoo's verse and chorus has the same melody, just different volume..
i.e the chorus is just the verse sang louder. A little bit of ethno sound is added towards the end because the composers knew how repetitive and boring the song will be without it.

 

[popavapeur]

This shows everyone was trying to vote fairly except for most juries.

Honestly, Sweden‘s backlash is their own fault because they were trying soooo hard, by every means, to make that victory happen. They wanted it and they did it, by all means.
I think this is the reason why people are fed up with Sweden. Nobody likes overachiever if they reach their goals by foul play. They are imposters. They built the myth around them being Europe‘s greatest and people now standing in awe when they hear the name of Eurovision and Sweden in one sentence.
Even people who have nothing to do with Eurovision know the legend that Sweden is the biggest country in Eurovision. I had this talks a few times with casual people.
I wish Germany would give their big 5 spot to Sweden. So Sweden would have to pay at least for their own show.

I don't get what you're saying ?

They composed a song, Loreen was on board, it won the selection like any other year. I don't feel like the song was more or less "try hard" than before ? I kinda felt it in 2015 where the projections were like a distraction cause the song was kinda bland and Mans isn't (in my opinion) an extraordinary performer (and I felt it too with Sergey in 2016 but he was a better performer at least)

They knew they had something that could win and they rightfully sent it to the contest, I don't get what is wrong about that. What is "by all means" ? it sounds like they gave money to the jurors lol what could have they done more to secure a win than have a strong performer, with a strong song (it may not be original but it's still strong in the context of a contest) with a strong staging which every country should do every year. It reached 2nd place in the televote even if it's way less points than Finland, that means something right, people actually liked it ? Jurors could have liked it too...maybe ? and we know jurors tend to vote for what is "strong" and that's why both Finland and Sweden were at the top of the odds cause we knew when we heard the songs or saw the performances during their NF that both songs were strong. I don't feel like jurors were "for" Sweden or "against" Finland as they gave him 4th place, they awarded him high ranks and I feel like he could have won if his performance was better in terms of singing the song, not being out of breath and such. That's what sealed the deal to me yesterday. I couldn't imagine jurors put Finland higher than that and I genuinely felt that Sweden was one of the strongest package and there wasn't much competition -to me again- in the "jury category", hence all the points going to Sweden.

I felt like my country this year did try hard and it didn't work, they overdid the staging but it wasn't a success, the song was kinda eurovisionny with a big moment at the end which led to the song being underwhelming except for the 20 last seconds but they tried "their best" they came with something. Spain did that too, even if it didn't work at the end but that was a very special staging with a strong performer and a very risky song they thought could win. Finland did their best too with an over the top staging, elevated from the NF cause they knew it had potential.

I'm sad to see that people are "happy" with anybody having some sort of backlash or hate over a song contest, it should bring happiness and if it doesn't, then there's something wrong with our relation to this tv show. Does hate really wins at the end ? Like we're hating somebody/a country that aimed for the gold ?

 

[lolita]

I think it was a brazen move to show a table of historic number of wins this time. it hasn’t happened before, but this time it was meant to give away a spoiler that it’s gonna change.

I also found it super weird, I thought I was only one! I am glad more people noticed it, spot on.

 

[Rasmus0714]

Oh good god, Twitter and Reddit are toxic today. I've stopped looking at them for Eurovision coverage. Has there ever been such a bitter day post Eurovision, I can't remember one. It's on another scale from the Keiino incident

Isn't last year also a shit fest? I cannot speak for others but tankies sure act like Ukraine murders their whole family.

 

[midnightsun]

They knew they had something that could win and they rightfully sent it to the contest, I don't get what is wrong about that. What is "by all means" ? it sounds like they gave money to the jurors lol

First of all, I would have preferred neither Sweden nor Finland as a winner. I was never a fan of the Finnish song. It was Käärijä who won me over with that fantastic performance and his cuteness and so I would have been happy to see him winning in the 1vs1 battle with Loreen. I also didn’t vote for Finland so I‘m not one of the ones complaining because I wanted Finland winning. In the end, Finland deserved it the most since they (him & his team) are so authentic. In contrary to Sweden which brings me to the point you asked about…

Sweden is a completely calculated machine. They could never cope with their failure 2010, that went straight through their hearts and they took it very personal - and since then they‘re trying EVERYTHING to make up for their disgrace.

They took the power over, first Björkman, now Österdahl. The whole contest is tailored to Sweden. From the running order to jury voting - I could write an essay about it. They might not have given money to the juries but they know how to influence them. I couldn’t believe it in the early Björkan era and even defended him here when everybody hated him. But I finally saw patterns plus the information I got working in the media myself… it opened my eyes.

I mean, what else do you want me to say? Is the running order not enough? Juries voting for Loreen in a landslide? Choosing their mightiest weapon Loreen to secure that win? They built the hype around her. The subtle influences everywhere. I won’t go into details now because people don’t want to read it anyway.

From a producer’s view and for the sake of the future of the contest it was extremely important people would not get the impression Ukraine would win another year because of the situation. Because a lot of people thought that, true or not. So they had to take measures to prevent it. To keep people watching.
Loreen was the only one due to her popularity who was a credible winner to cover the influence they were taking. But they didn’t expect someone else going that big like Finland. So they had to secure Loreen‘s victory with that MASSIVE jury vote. She got covered so much by the media. Everyone was writing about her before she during the contest. Finland too, yes, but not to that extent.

I just don’t want Sweden to be that influential. Why do they change the rules, the voting system? Why do they even allow other countries to buy all their songs? This year was a nice exception (except for Cyprus) but now think why this year (almost) nobody got a Swedish song by Swedish songwriters…
They could easily prevent countries from buying songs from foreign songwriters in the past but of course they didn’t do that because they wanted to be everywhere. To use every chance to get a good placement.

Like I said I could write more and more and more but I‘ll leave it with this. I think all is said and done.

So hopefully it will be a more interesting contest next year. Sweden is good at hosting, of course, so I expect a decent show from them at least.

 

[empo21]

Let's be real, Loreen was good, but not 170pts ahead of her competition good...

Does anyone have any arguments on why Austria and Poland (and Australia kind of) got shafted in the RO despite being top 3 in their semi-final?

 

[Bmbriga]

with a strong staging which every country should do every year. I

And what would happen if every country brings prop like that?


Huge ass props that influence running order should be forbidden.

They could easily prevent countries from buying songs from foreign songwriters in the past but of course they didn’t do that because they wanted to be everywhere. To use every chance to get a good placement.

I can't understand why is that even allowed. Songwriters are just as, actually even more, important than performers and if "countries are competing" it makes no sense.

Buying songs from songwriters from other countries should be forbidden.

 

[midnightsun]

This. If I run the show I would make it mandatory that the songwriter MUST be from the participating country and each songwriter is allowed once for one country only. The same with artists, while exceptions can be made, like we sometimes have, parents from another country, born in another country etc.

 

[Bmbriga]

Songwriter is allowed once for one country only.

Sorry, but that can't work. I think you forgot that the rest of us don't have 80 milion people

 

[midnightsun]

I know some countries have a little music scene only but come on… not a single songwriter in a country? I can’t believe that. They could all attend the songwriters camps which are around in some European countries!

 

[Bmbriga]

Different songwriter every year? No, it wouldn't work.
This way we're struggling.
Also interesting, although every year someone comes with Swedish song in Dora, they never win.

 

[nudiecrudi]

Sorry, but that can't work. I think you forgot that the rest of us don't have 80 milion people

Albania is a small country but the songs are written mostly by Albanians I think

 

[Bmbriga]

Albania is a small country but the songs are written mostly by Albanians I think

In Croatia also, but I was referring to "one songwriter can only compete once'.
I don't think it would be fair to small countries.

 

[Fierro]

Commentators should be forbidden to say during the live shows who the favorites to win are. It directly influences televoting.

 

[Stargazer]

First of all, I would have preferred neither Sweden nor Finland as a winner. I was never a fan of the Finnish song. It was Käärijä who won me over with that fantastic performance and his cuteness and so I would have been happy to see him winning in the 1vs1 battle with Loreen. I also didn’t vote for Finland so I‘m not one of the ones complaining because I wanted Finland winning. In the end, Finland deserved it the most since they (him & his team) are so authentic. In contrary to Sweden which brings me to the point you asked about…

Sweden is a completely calculated machine. They could never cope with their failure 2010, that went straight through their hearts and they took it very personal - and since then they‘re trying EVERYTHING to make up for their disgrace.

They took the power over, first Björkman, now Österdahl. The whole contest is tailored to Sweden. From the running order to jury voting - I could write an essay about it. They might not have given money to the juries but they know how to influence them. I couldn’t believe it in the early Björkan era and even defended him here when everybody hated him. But I finally saw patterns plus the information I got working in the media myself… it opened my eyes.

I mean, what else do you want me to say? Is the running order not enough? Juries voting for Loreen in a landslide? Choosing their mightiest weapon Loreen to secure that win? They built the hype around her. The subtle influences everywhere. I won’t go into details now because people don’t want to read it anyway.

From a producer’s view and for the sake of the future of the contest it was extremely important people would not get the impression Ukraine would win another year because of the situation. Because a lot of people thought that, true or not. So they had to take measures to prevent it. To keep people watching.
Loreen was the only one due to her popularity who was a credible winner to cover the influence they were taking. But they didn’t expect someone else going that big like Finland. So they had to secure Loreen‘s victory with that MASSIVE jury vote. She got covered so much by the media. Everyone was writing about her before she during the contest. Finland too, yes, but not to that extent.

I just don’t want Sweden to be that influential. Why do they change the rules, the voting system? Why do they even allow other countries to buy all their songs? This year was a nice exception (except for Cyprus) but now think why this year (almost) nobody got a Swedish song by Swedish songwriters…
They could easily prevent countries from buying songs from foreign songwriters in the past but of course they didn’t do that because they wanted to be everywhere. To use every chance to get a good placement.

Like I said I could write more and more and more but I‘ll leave it with this. I think all is said and done.

So hopefully it will be a more interesting contest next year. Sweden is good at hosting, of course, so I expect a decent show from them at least.

Don't you think if there was some massive calculated conspiracy to make Sweden win at all costs, they would have made sure the Swedish jurors didn't score Finland the highest? But instead the Swedish jury gave 12 points to Finland, and the Swedish televoting public did as well (unlike the Finnish public who completely blanked Sweden). I can only imagine the vitriol people would have thrown at Sweden had the Swedish public (or jury) blanked Finland.

I can promise you that if other countries had some huge stage prop that needed to be set up before their act, they'd get a break before their entry too.

 

[empo21]

How funny would it be if Ireland somehow snapped next year and won

 

[Ezio]

People is fed up with everyone who is more successful then themselves in real life, imagine the hatred they spread towards a country successful in a musical event. Honestly, Sweden isn't the best Eurovision Country, it's among the best to achieve good results. It's different. They know exactly how to be succesful in Eurovision, like Ukraine, like Italy (hilariously enough, because talians didn't give an actual fuck about Eurovision for decades). But the same thing happened in the past, with different countries: France and Luxembourg were the powerhouses in '60s and '70s, Ireland and the Uk dominated the scene in the '80s and '90s. None of those countries experienced the hatred Sweden is receiving.

And maybe, just maybe, this is really Sweden's fault. They received that kind of hate not because they are winning, but because of the attitude of superiority they share when they win. Everybody likes Sweden as a host... Well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually don't: they organized Eurovision editions like autocelebrative parades, with puns on how they were not the best, because all people knows Ireland's the best with their 7 wins, and they were close but not enough, all that with a grin on their faces just to say: "Now we are the best and Ireland rots in the hell of semis, watch us because here we come!". Their editions were production wise fantastic, but there were plenty of those moments which I absolutely despised. There, finally I said it.

Sweden feels entitled to win every year. They are not excited for any other country and where the song contest might go next. Priority is on themselves. Sweden cancelled the fan favourite in 1999, which was Iceland, in 2015, which was Italy, and in 2023, which was Finland. Part of the excitement of Eurovision is to see new and rare winners emerge, such as Portugal in 2017. A country that forced themselves on everyone to snatch every victory is not exciting, it's infuriating. The producers have no objection to sabotaging other countries through running order. It also speaks volumes that Loreen was approached to participate and didn't seek the opportunity herself.
As Conchita stated a few days ago in an interview, it's so nice not to participate but to be here. So, Loreen allowed herself to get instrumentalized here. A spiritual person for the sake of material, national egoism.

The televote in many countries for Loreen is ridiculous. Austria and Germany usually vote for the winner but she wasnt even in Top 5 or barely Top 10.

Germany is the biggest market in Europe and snubbed her twice!

 

[Stargazer]

Sweden feels entitled to win every year. They are not excited for any other country and where the song contest might go next. Priority is on themselves. Sweden cancelled the fan favourite in 1999, which was Iceland, in 2015, which was Italy, and in 2023, which was Finland. Part of the excitement of Eurovision is to see new and rare winners emerge, such as Portugal in 2017. A country that forced themselves on everyone to snatch every victory is not exciting, it's infuriating. The producers have no objection to sabotaging other countries through running order. It also speaks volumes that Loreen was approached to participate and didn't seek the opportunity herself.
As Conchita stated a few days ago in an interview, it's so nice not to participate but to be here. So, Loreen allowed herself to get instrumentalized here. A spiritual person for the sake of material, national egoism.

The televote in many countries for Loreen is ridiculous. Austria and Germany usually vote for the winner but she wasnt even in Top 5 or barely Top 10.

Germany is the biggest market in Europe and snubbed her twice!

No, we don't feel entitled to win every year. We just send something we hope will do really well, like I would assume every country does. And why wouldn't each country's priority be on their own country?? How do you know we're not excited for any other country?? The Swedish commentators are always gushing about their favorite entries and cheer for other countries when they get high points (as do all of us at home as well).

So three times since 1999 we supposedly "snatched" the victory from other fan favorites (which makes it sound like those countries were entitled to their victories), even though each time we won according to the rules at the time. How is 3/24 snatching every victory? You're making it sound like we're winning every other year.