EUROVISION 2020 - General Discussion Thread

[escYOUnited]

Please post any and all discussions regarding the contest itself, host country and city, organisation, rumours and other topics not related to any specific country's selection process.

 

[Mainshow]

I just think that the running orders get so boring and predictable because it's usually always an up-tempo song opening and closing the shows, whilst "considered chanceless by bookies and Björkmann alike songs" get that #2 death slots, preferably an Eastern European country (2014: Belarus, 2016: Czech Republic, 2017: Poland 2019, Albania) or ballads from Big 5 countries (2015: France, 2018: Spain).

Also, I don't get it why they put native language songs next to each other when the majority performs their songs in English. - Whilst, on the other hand, Australia 2018 and Finland 2018 performs next to each other (2 fan favourites, female pop, contemporary, English).

I think that the running orders should be drawn again. Maybe putting the songs in different pots accordingly their tempo/style would be enough to make sure that it's more diverse and fair in the end?

 

[Loindici]

Good News for all the Haters. No Björkman:

Bjorkman was never an executive producer for the last three years. What we should worry is the chances of him getting the Contest Producer title once more -- the running order guy.

 

[0scar]

I want only Dutch people to be part of the production

 

[Preuss]

What will be the main differences now that Björkman’s not involved (for now)?

 

[Ezio]

What will be the main differences now that Björkman’s not involved (for now)?

No pimp slot for

 

[John1]

hey tbh, won't be favoured over any country now, when it comes to choosing their spot in the running order. Great news, for now. xshifty

 

[Realest]

was Top3 in the Semi 7 Years in a Row. Björkman was always fair to

 

[Mainshow]

was Top3 in the Semi 7 Years in a Row. Björkman was always fair to

Thank you for pointing out what's wrong the current system: The "winners" of the Semis get the better draw in the grand final.
Creating more diversity and excitement is bullshit. Certain countries are simply pushed.

 

[Loindici]

We can say 'he's only determining the running order' but who knows what he's deliberating with the production team. Layers and layers of that.

 

[Preuss]

No pimp slot for

To be honest I don’t see what difference it would make if Sweden performed as 7th, 8th, 10th, 11th, 12th or 13th this year really, so what is actually a pimp slot these days...? Isn’t it more about which songs you have performing around you in the running order

Edit; I mean I do know that the draw has something to say, but my point is that people the last years have been jumping on Sweden no matter which draw they get like what was supposedly so great about slot 20 to Benjamin last year like I never got why that was so great and amazing for Sweden...?

 

[Preuss]

Thank you for pointing out what's wrong the current system: The "winners" of the Semis get the better draw in the grand final.
Creating more diversity and excitement is bullshit. Certain countries are simply pushed.

And may I propose what else you would suggest?
With certain countries, who do you mean?

 

[Mainshow]

And may I propose what else you would suggest? Of course the ones doing well in the semis should get a better draw in the final, no? :?

That's not why the new mechanism and system got introduced. They said that they would like to come up with the running order in order to allow each track to shine individually and create more diversity to make it more interesting to the viewers at home.

Creating the running order had a different purpose. Now we have native language entries next to each other, English female pop songs in the same style next to each other but the hot favourites and Sweden and Australia on the better slots year after year.
It has become boring and predictable.

 

[Preuss]

That's not why the new mechanism and system got introduced. They said that they would like to come up with the running order in order to allow each track to shine individually and create more diversity to make it more interesting to the viewers at home.

Creating the running order had a different purpose. Now we have native language entries next to each other, English female pop songs in the same style next to each other but the hot favourites and Sweden and Australia on the better slots year after year.
It has become boring and predictable.

Sorry, I just edited my answer away because I formulated myself wrong It’s getting late. I feel like they’ve for a majority been able to accomplish that actually? I mean, it’s hard to get it 100% right for every act lol, I don’t think it’s possible. Now I’m just writing this without looking deep into it and thinking over it in my head quickly

I mean, didn’t Australia and Finland perform next to each other last year? So called English female pop songs. So that was obviously not good for Jessica nor Saara. Jessica is from Australia.

And yeah, we might just fundamentally disagree on this but I feel like the favourites should get the best slots

 

[HayashiM]

was Top3 in the Semi 7 Years in a Row. Björkman was always fair to

finished 2nd in its semi this year and 3rd in its semi last year, yet imo we got a very bad running order in the final for both of those occasions.
Hence the semifinal results are no good justification for never ever getting a bad slot under Björkman.

 

[Preuss]

finished 2nd in its semi this year and 3rd in its semi last year, yet imo we got a very bad running order in the final for both of those occasions.
Hence the semifinal results are no good justification for never ever getting a bad slot under Björkman.

Yes to be honest I found that weird :?
But I mean, «usually» the ones doing great in the semis get a good draw in the final so I am really confused why Czech’s gone so early with Mikolas and Lake Malawi... :?

Edit; Mikolas still did well though, I doubt that the juries would’ve changed their opinions about it irregardless if he performed later
«Lie To Me» is such a bop though, I listen to it basically every day

 

[Realest]

Björkman must build in some surprises , otherwise people complain about predictable Runningorders.

 

[0scar]

Björkman must build in some surprises , otherwise people complain about predictable Runningorders.

Lol
So why not putting first in 2019? 'Too Late for Love' would be an amazing opener for the show. Yet, it didn't.
Why at relatively bad slots and at good slots twice in a row twice in a row while they both finished in the top 3

That isn't 'building in some surprises', that is just being favorable towards Sweden and not caring about Czech Republic, and ignoring the 'top placed countries in the semi get good slots' rule

 

[Mainshow]

[MENTION=14117]0scar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=16493]HayashiM[/MENTION] are right.
In addition to what I've written before + more, there's somehow a pattern and it does make it unfair, predictable and that's why I'm strongly against Björkman being in charge of the running order (despite the fact that I don't mind a calculated running order at all because indeed, it's better to not have 4 ballads or 4 up-tempo songs in a row).

and always kinda getting the best spots possible - One may argue that these countries have performed well in the semis and that's why it's justified but what about :cz? Finishing #3 and #2 in the semis didn't save them from getting a bad slot in the grand final.

There's a 66,67% chance that the death slot (#2) will be given to an Eastern European country (2014: Belarus, 2016: Czech Republic, 2017: Poland, 2019: Albania)

Big 5 countries are somehow favored. There's a 83,33% chance that the final slot will be given to them: United Kingdom (2014), Italy (2015), France (2017), Italy (2018), Spain (2019).The UK got #25 in 2016.

Even this year, when everyone knew that Germany will be dead last in the televoting, we didn't get the #2 slot... ALBANIA did.. one of the most complex, unique and distinctive competitions. It's a very "shouty" track, very passionate and not very accessible.. Isn't it better to place such entries a bit later? I loved it but personally, I can see why it's very off-putting to a wide audience and it's quite "unlucky" to place such tunes after the obligatory up-tempo #1 since it's killing the flow.

Creating diversity hasn't been achieved either. Let's have a look at this year:
Semi 1:
- Poland (#4) and Slovenia (#5): too Slavic languages next to each other. It would have been better and more diverse to place them in between English songs (On the other hand: There were three English songs at the beginning)
- Slovenia (#5), Czech Republic (#6) next to each other despite being the most contemporary sounding tracks of the whole semi.
- Georgia (#11), Australia (#12), Iceland (#13) most have been the most unfortunate combination ever: What's the point of putting the most distinctive, unique and "out of this world" performances/less-mainstream ones all together?

I don't consider the running order of Semi 2 to be bad, though

In the Grand Final, Björkman placed three non-English songs in the 2nd half next to each other (#21 France, #22 Italy, #23 Serbia).

+ Eastern European countries mostly get robbed: The ratio is 3 Eastern / 2 Western European countries in the First 5 slots in each live show:
2019:
Semi 1:Montenegro, Poland, Slovenia
Semi 2: Armenia, Moldova, Latvia

That pattern can be seen in the Grand Finals as well:
2019: Albania, Czech Republic, Russia
2018: Ukraine, Slovenia, Lithuania
2017: Poland, Belarus, Armenia
2016: Czech Republic, Azerbaijan, Hungary
2015: Slovenia, (Israel), Estonia
2014: Ukraine, Belarus, Azerbaijan

2015 is the only exception to the rule (pretty sure non-Eurovision fans wouldn't place Israel into Western European, though).

I don't want to spread a conspiracy here, maybe Björkman just had the best intention and didn't cause this on purpose BUT IF you have the job of coming up with a running order to make it more fair, diverse, exciting... you should keep track of getting countries such as the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Poland the same "good slot" ratio than Italy, Sweden and Australia.

 

[BorisBubbles]

Björkman must build in some surprises , otherwise people complain about predictable Runningorders.

I think you and Christer should get a room together.

 

[tuorem]

finished 2nd in its semi this year and 3rd in its semi last year, yet imo we got a very bad running order in the final for both of those occasions.
Hence the semifinal results are no good justification for never ever getting a bad slot under Björkman.

Israel and Estonia got the same treatment in 2015: both were top 3 in their semis, yet they performed 3rd and 4th in the grand final. :?

What I find funny about most people supporting running orders decided by producers is that on one hand they say "well, it's totally normal X and Y got a pimp slot in the final because they did super well in the semi/are high in betting odds", but on the other hand, when you tell them Z wasn't as lucky, their answer often is "well, the running order doesn't matter that much anyway. A good song will do well regardless of its starting position"....

And I'm like: what is the truth then? Does the running order matter or not? You can't have it both ways: either it does matter and the most successful acts in the semis should have more or less the same advantages in the grand final, or the order doesn't matter so no one should be guaranteed to perform later.

Personally, I think the running order matters, and since the EBU have been doing it "manually" since 2013, they could at least make sure to be fairer to everyone, which includes not hiring someone who has a conflict of interest: that's the number 1 rule of common sense. But given the patterns we've seen, they don't seem to be concerned about that.

If it were up to me, I'd get back to the random draw in a heartbeat because it's the fairest solution for a competition: neither the song, nor the flag can have an influence on it.