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EUROVISION 2020 - General Discussion Thread

escYOUnited

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Please post any and all discussions regarding the contest itself, host country and city, organisation, rumours and other topics not related to any specific country's selection process.
 

Loindici

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Yeah, a few more days... :?
 

Realest

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Latest Rumours say that Conchita wants to host ESC 2020.
But wont happen of Course.
 

AlekS

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Not sure about that rumour. But even if it's true ... wtf, she doesn't believe that her own country can win again? xpopcorn
 

John1

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I just wanted someone, who is a true native English speaker, to answer this silly question of mine: Was this grammatically correct for Duncan Laurence during his victory speech to state "This is to dreaming big", given that, as far as I can recall, we shouldn't use any -ing form after "to" in English.

Could someone end this useless debate on this issue, with which I've been arguing with my friend all day long since yesterday. :lol:

Thank you in advance and apologizes for this weird question, but somehow meaningful. :lol:


Some winners think the contest is theirs because they won once :?

@Mans Zelmerlöw
 

Leydan

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I just wanted someone, who is a true native English speaker, to answer this silly question of mine: Was this grammatically correct for Duncan Laurence during his victory speech to state "This is to dreaming big", given that, as far as I can recall, we shouldn't use any -ing form after "to" in English.

Could someone end this useless debate on this issue, with which I've been arguing with my friend all day long since yesterday. :lol:

Thank you in advance and apologizes for this weird question, but somehow meaningful. :lol:




@Mans Zelmerlöw

Native speaker here. The sentence doesn't make sense as he said it. He should have either said "This is dreaming big" or "This is to dream big" not "This is to dreaming big". That's the basic of it. Someone else could probably go deeper into the reasoning.
 

Loindici

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NPO asked for re-elaboration of the host city plans, and I'm not sure from where exactly debanbloggs wanted to imply there's a close race between the two.
 

John1

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Native speaker here. The sentence doesn't make sense as he said it. He should have either said "This is dreaming big" or "This is to dream big" not "This is to dreaming big". That's the basic of it. Someone else could probably go deeper into the reasoning.

Thank you so much! Hence my astonishment, when I saw him shouting that at the end of the GF, I was like "wtf, to + ing??" and I totally forgot about this until my friend came up with this again. :lol:
 

Reinventor

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Native speaker here. The sentence doesn't make sense as he said it. He should have either said "This is dreaming big" or "This is to dream big" not "This is to dreaming big". That's the basic of it. Someone else could probably go deeper into the reasoning.

The award was dedicated to “dreaming big.” Conceptually, it would be correct because “dreaming big” is something one actively does.” So, it is a gerund (present participle) creating a phrase with the noun “big.”
 

John1

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The award was dedicated to “dreaming big.” Conceptually, it would be correct because “dreaming big” is something one actively does.” So, it is a gerund (present participle) creating a phrase with the noun “big.”

I'm sorry but I don't get your point there, even though I understand the fact that he used a gerund in order to form this sentence. Wouldn't have it been better for him to say "This [victory] is dedicated to dreaming big" instead of "This is to dreaming big"?

It's pretty hard for me to figure out the inner meaning of this sentence tbh without suffering from painful headaches. :lol:
 

BorisBubbles

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Native speaker here. The sentence doesn't make sense as he said it. He should have either said "This is dreaming big" or "This is to dream big" not "This is to dreaming big". That's the basic of it. Someone else could probably go deeper into the reasoning.

What Duncan means to say is "This victory is dedicated to those who dare to have big dreams" but shortened it with ellipsis while keeping the important words, even in a context where their use isn't grammatically sound. Malapropisms and misuse of ellipsis are common mistakes among advanced ESL learners whose native language is Dutch.
 

John1

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Malapropisms and misuse of ellipsis are common mistakes among advanced ESL learners whose native language is Dutch.

So is it for ESL learners, whose native language is German. Anyway, did he use the ellipsis correctly or not? xshifty

I feel deeply concerned by spelling mistakes or grammatical issues and I just want to find out whether he made a mistake or not. :lol:
 

Reinventor

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Well, I checked it with a couple of native speakers (both American and British) and they all deem it correct. I gave an explanation earlier as to why.
 

John1

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Well, I checked it with a couple of native speakers (both American and British) and they all deem it correct. I gave an explanation earlier as to why.

Given that a gerund after "to" is considered as a spelling mistake, I'm going to need a much clearer explanation I guess. xcry2
 

Leydan

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Well, I checked it with a couple of native speakers (both American and British) and they all deem it correct. I gave an explanation earlier as to why.

But it isn't correct at all. You don't say "This is to dreaming big", it's something a native speaker would never say. More suitable and one you do actually hear, is "Here's to dreaming big". Duncans intention is the same thing but it's not right.
 

Reinventor

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Given that a gerund after "to" is considered as a spelling mistake, I'm going to need a much clearer explanation I guess. xcry2

Googled it for you as I'm too lazy to type this all out myself:

I take it that you are confused about when to use "to help" (or some other verb) and when to use "to helping" (or some other VERB+ing).

The way to differentiate between the two is to see if you can put a noun after the word "to" in the sentence you are writing. If you can put a noun after "to" and the sentence makes sense, then you should use a gerund (VERB+ing). This is because a gerund is VERB+ing used as a noun. If not, then you should not use the "-ing" ending. In this way, we get an infinitive (to + VERB). The difference between the two forms is that in the first case, the word "to" is a preposition, whereas in the second case, "to" is part of the infinitive (INFINITIVE = to + VERB), not a separate grammatical element in the sentence.

If we apply this test to the example sentence, we could say something like:

Mother Teresa devoted her life to service (noun).
Mother Teresa devoted her life to the poor (noun).

Clearly, we can put a noun after "to" in this sentence. We can feel confident that the place after "to" in this sentence is a place for a noun, (and remember that a gerund does the work of a noun). Since the sentence meets the test, we can feel safe in using a gerund in the place of the noun after "to." In this case, "to" is clearly a preposition (since it is followed by a noun). So we say:

Mother Teresa devoted her life to helping the poor. [preposition + gerund]

Let's look at another sentence:

Mother Teresa decided to _____________.

In this sentence, it would be impossible to put a noun in the blank after "to" and have the sentence still make sense. We cannot say: "Mother Teresa decided to service." Since this sentence does meet the test, we need to use "help" without the "-ing." This creates an infinitive (to + VERB). So we get:

Mother Teresa decided to help the poor. [infinitive]

Consider another common construction that causes confusion: "look forward to." Should there be a gerund after this or just the simple form of the verb without -ing? If we apply the test, we get sentences like this:

They are looking forward to the party. (noun)
I am looking forward to your response. (possessive pronoun + noun)

Clearly the place after the word "to" in this case is a place for a noun, and "to" is therefore a preposition. So we use a gerund.

I look forward to hearing from you. [preposition + gerund]
They are looking forward to meeting you at the party. [preposition + gerund]

But we cannot say:

I look forward to hear from you. [INCORRECT]
They are looking forward to meet you at the party. [INCORRECT]

NOTE: Infinitives can be used as nouns just as gerunds are used as nouns. However, it is important to remember that the word "to" is included in the infinitive, whereas "to" is not part of the gerund, but is a preposition that comes before the gerund as a separate grammatical element.

In the following sentences, "to help" is used as a noun, but "to" is part of the infinitive, not a separate grammatical element.

To help the poor was Mother Teresa's desire from an early age.
Mother Teresa wanted only one thing in life: to help the poor.
 

John1

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The way to differentiate between the two is to see if you can put a noun after the word "to" in the sentence you are writing. If you can put a noun after "to" and the sentence makes sense, then you should use a gerund (VERB+ing). This is because a gerund is VERB+ing used as a noun. If not, then you should not use the "-ing" ending. In this way, we get an infinitive (to + VERB). The difference between the two forms is that in the first case, the word "to" is a preposition, whereas in the second case, "to" is part of the infinitive (INFINITIVE = to + VERB), not a separate grammatical element in the sentence.

This part makes the whole situation even more complex. I know that there are a few exceptions, with which you're allowed to use a gerund after a to (for instance look forward to sth, when it comes to sth or be used to sth), because this gerund is used as a noun.

However, I googled it myself while I was reading the aforementioned and I've yet to see any websites, which mention the existence of "This is to + ing" form or any equivalent sentence, which would be seen as grammatically correct. Although understanding what Duncan said (I dedicate this victory to dreaming big or sth like that?), where do you draw the line between a gerund used as a noun and an infinitive, where to is part of the latter? This is so confusing. xshrug


PS: By the way, I'm sorry to have initiated that endless debate over a stupid spelling mistake or whatever. :lol:
 

esc87fan

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Duncan was spotted in both Maastricht and Rotterdam with a camera crew. Perhaps a congratulatory message, or a welcome video featuring the official host city?
 

aardvark

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This part makes the whole situation even more complex. I know that there are a few exceptions, with which you're allowed to use a gerund after a to (for instance look forward to sth, when it comes to sth or be used to sth), because this gerund is used as a noun.

However, I googled it myself while I was reading the aforementioned and I've yet to see any websites, which mention the existence of "This is to + ing" form or any equivalent sentence, which would be seen as grammatically correct. Although understanding what Duncan said (I dedicate this victory to dreaming big or sth like that?), where do you draw the line between a gerund used as a noun and an infinitive, where to is part of the latter? This is so confusing. xshrug


PS: By the way, I'm sorry to have initiated that endless debate over a stupid spelling mistake or whatever. :lol:

Reinventor is correct in his assessment. In Duncan's sentence "This is to dreaming big" the word "to" is used as a preposition in this instance (with an opposite meaning to "from"), and therefore should be followed by a noun or gerund. In this sentence "to" has a meaning of "toward" to indicate a relationship to something (an object or idea).

The dividing line is whether the word "to" is a preposition (indicating direction) or part of the infinitive.
 

Loindici

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Offtopic: since NPO is doing host city reevaluation, do you think the host city race is quite tight at this moment?
 
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