nikolay_BG
Banned
I seriously doubt that the viewer ratings of ESC will drop, because of the language of the songs. That`s just a lame excuse imo.
Bringing back the language rule!
- Thread starter r3gg13
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Someone made the claim that having a language rule would increase viewership and we disagreed. It's not a "lame" excuse it's a response to a claim made previously
? Germany is not an English-speaking country. The viewing figures were (relatively) low here in the nineties and that probably has something to do with the ultra-dated sleeping pills MDR has sent to the contest in those days. In 1998, for obvious reasons viewing figures were record-breaking and that was still with the language-rule.
I also do not think it is the younger generation which is most English-obsessed. In general, young people are quite open-minded and are looking for diversity and alternatives.
Frankly I can imagine the English-speakers are happy with the situation / it makes them feel "proud" that everyone caters to a part of their culture now but they still represent only a small minority of the audience. Europe has more to offer.
All in all, I agree with Roman and believe the figures would increase. Since it is not even contemporary commerical music in English that is presented (98% not).
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I am aware that German is not an English speaking country. As you pointed out the viewing figures in the 90's were incredibly low and started to improve in the late 90's.
This has nothing to do with those who speak English feeling "proud". It has to do with giving everyone the artistic freedom to do whatever they want with their song. Imagine the dutch band "Within Temptation" being forced to sing in dutch. It wouldn't be true to their music.
But I do agree that silly English lyrics that were translated badly are terrible. If you don't generally sing in English, don't do it just cause....All I want is for artists to have the freedom to do what they want to
This has nothing to do with those who speak English feeling "proud". It has to do with giving everyone the artistic freedom to do whatever they want with their song. Imagine the dutch band "Within Temptation" being forced to sing in dutch. It wouldn't be true to their music.
But I do agree that silly English lyrics that were translated badly are terrible. If you don't generally sing in English, don't do it just cause....All I want is for artists to have the freedom to do what they want to
sannerz
Active member
The winners of the last two contests have sounded like contemporary music in English. Actually, 7 of the top 10 in the 2011 televoting only results, are contemporary sounding songs, all of which were sang in English. And 6(or 7, depending on if you think Georgia 2010 is contemporary, its a bit dated) out of 10 of the top 10 in televoting only in 2010 were contemporary sounding songs in English. Obviously, viewers like that, so I doubt the viewing figures would increase, if the language rule was reinstated.
A de facto English rule is not an artistic freedom of choice. Most European and Asian singers naturally do sing in their native tongue but are asked to write in English for the contest. If there were no force one could consider is a liberal point of view (instead of strengthening cultural values). As it is now, your argument is just an own goal I think.
Actually there was not any entry in the final that sounded contemporary judging by commercial factors with slight exceptions of England and Ireland. I know what style you refer to though but again, we had little alternatives. Greece coming 3rd is an evidence what a lot of people like to see. But take better a look at the results of 2007 or 2004, for example. However, there is well-made commercial pop in local languages in every country. Why not to come up with this? Languages are not bounded to musical genres.
Mickey
Well-known member
Very well put. I think that's the best argument for keeping the rule as it is. I think artists are more willing to enter Eurovision if they have that freedom. They also have greater confidence that they can compete on a level footing with the likes of the UK and France, who might otherwise have an advantage.
I also think that then, with more singers willing to enter, you get greater competition in national finals and better entries as a result.
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That's a pretty far fetched accusation. You don't know my personal taste in music so keep that in mind.
So I'm just making clear that my point is that it should be freedom for all artists and songwriters.
No, I am sorry, the English equivalent for Eigentor I just was looking for. Means in this case, that the freedom of choice is rather an argument against current circumstances than against the local language rule. Because many writers either are (by their national broadcasters) or feel forced to hand in entries in English.
That's a totally different problem you're talking about. We are simply referring to the fact that the language rule is something that shouldn't be enforced on countries. The EBU does nt get involved in the selection process, may it be NF vs internal selection, language issues, artist selection etc. I disagree with the rule that broadcasters make that kind of decision but it's not the EBU's responsibility to change their rules just because some fans don't like who the broadcasters are handling things.
Should the EBU control also if a broadcaster should hold a NF instead of internal selection? It's not their place. So it's not a so called 'Eigentor' as you make it out to be. I am simply referring to the fact that the EBU should not interfere on the artistic aspect of the song which includes the language issue. If the broadcasters are setting different rules then that is something that should be changed on their side and not 'punish' every other country with a global change.
MyHeartIsYours
Well-known member
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Matt is totally right here. And young people in the UK certainly are much less likely to watch the show if the songs are in other languages, we're not very multilingual 
. I dont believe the BBC would withdraw easily either, but it does matter what the UK's viewing figures because 1) we pay the most for the contest and so the BBC deserves higher viewing figures to increase value for money 2) sannerz is right in saying that without us (and the other Big 5 countries) Eurovision couldnt take place 3) Eurovision will always be popular and have high amount of viewers in places like Ukraine and Greece. In the UK, its popularity fluctuates, and Eurovision is more popular now than it has ever been in history - I dont believe it to be a coincidence that this has happened since the use of English increased (from 2009 onwards).
As I've said though, the main argument for me is the fact that artists and broadcasters should have the freedom to choose the language they sing in. Why remove this freedom?
. I dont believe the BBC would withdraw easily either, but it does matter what the UK's viewing figures because 1) we pay the most for the contest and so the BBC deserves higher viewing figures to increase value for money 2) sannerz is right in saying that without us (and the other Big 5 countries) Eurovision couldnt take place 3) Eurovision will always be popular and have high amount of viewers in places like Ukraine and Greece. In the UK, its popularity fluctuates, and Eurovision is more popular now than it has ever been in history - I dont believe it to be a coincidence that this has happened since the use of English increased (from 2009 onwards).As I've said though, the main argument for me is the fact that artists and broadcasters should have the freedom to choose the language they sing in. Why remove this freedom?
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Mickey
Well-known member
I would disagree there. In 2009 and 2011 Eurovision got much more publicity than at any other time in recent history. Andrew Lloyd Webber/Jade and Blue/Jedward were everywhere. High ratings followed. In 2010 we were too ashamed of our entry to promote Eurovision at all and not many people watched.
It's the big name acts that make a difference. I also think it helps that we no longer have a commentator who constantly seeks to undermine the show.
sannerz
Active member
^ I hated Terry Wogan. At least after 2000. Horrible.
nikolay_BG
Banned
Me too. He made fun of everyone and everything. A commentator should be neutral, I think 
MyHeartIsYours
Well-known member
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I didnt appreciate Terry Wogan at the time (I was younger and didnt really get his humour), but now I see that he is funny. He made fun of everything yes but he was commentating for the UK, not Europe, and so he suits our humour . In any case, Graham Norton does the same thing so that hasnt really changed 
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. In any case, Graham Norton does the same thing so that hasnt really changed .
Mickey
Well-known member
In any case, Graham Norton does the same thing so that hasnt really changed
No, I think Terry Wogan went much further than Norton. Wogan seemed to dislike almost everything. When he did pick out a song he liked, he would often say so in a way that put down the rest of the field. He'd make good stuff appear to be the exception. Norton will instead openly cheer on his favourites without irony: Russia and France 2010 being very good examples. Norton seems to expect good music. Wogan did not.
Then there's the sarcastic quoting of lyrics. Very few pops songs, Eurovision or not, will stand up well to the out-of-context scrutiny that Wogan applied to them.
nikolay_BG
Banned
A commentator shouldn`t share what songs he likes or dislikes. Our comentators are very neutral and I think they do a great job. If I had to pick between Terry Wogan and Elena Rosberg (the BG commentator) I would pick Elena.
Eurovision is a music contest, not a comedy show.
Eurovision is a music contest, not a comedy show.
Mickey
Well-known member
It's also an entertainment programme. When something as bizarre as Moldova or Belarus from last year appears on stage, it would seem remiss of the commentator not to comment on it. Graham Norton's comment's won't go as far as telling people how to vote. It will just be "I like this song. See what you think".
nikolay_BG
Banned
Yeah, but "WC pause song" or "Jedwards mom" isn`t very neutral too, right?
In 2007 Terry Wogan was always asking why don`t people vote for UK. Well, your song sucked back then, so it was normal that people won`t vote for it.
I don`t think english people are that stupid to make their own oppinion about a song or something else.
Why does BBC have a commentator anyways? The show is on...uhm...english?
The purpose of the of a commentator is not just to translate the show. They give additional information about the contest, artists, songs and also add entertainment values.