ESC United Mod Team
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Austria AUSTRIA 2024 - Kaleen - We Will Rave
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theditz83
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Down with the awful melancholic acoustic versions of dance songs - it's like we're living in a reverse remix era. Used to be you'd anxiously wait for your fave emoshun song to get a killer club remix from a top production house, now you're in fear of when a club classic is going to be butchered by some god-awful indie session singer that finds it impossible to pronounce any vowel accuratelyI'm waiting for the acoustic version
i think the approach is fine, they asked lots of different artists of various genres to participate and i personally think there were some great songs in the selection, but it happened that still this song & presentation were the most suitable for this occasion. it was not "bought" in this sense that orf searched for this international songwriters and asked for it - Kaleen & her team submitted it (just like everybody else could have submitted a song.) i agree that i personally would have loved to see something where more local songwriters are involved but still u want ur best option right?
nepotism was definitely not a case i can guarantee u that (and i would be one of the first to scream nepotism in this case if i didn't know, so i totally understand this concern). marvin dietman did not have a vote in this and if their relationship was any matter it was rather held against kaleen from the start and nothing that she took any benefit from (except for experience & connections to find the song & producers which is not a crime).
but she was prepared, had her choreo ready and delivered.
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rasmuslights
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and somebody asked on another forum (where i wanted to register but it didn't work / taking long... so please feel free to copy this there aswell 
) why marvin dietman is in the video: he was hosting the stream for the fanclubs (technically) where this was stolen from (let's say it as it is), he would be in any other performance aswell. he did not have any say in the voting and he did not influence the fans (or other jurors)
) why marvin dietman is in the video: he was hosting the stream for the fanclubs (technically) where this was stolen from (let's say it as it is), he would be in any other performance aswell. he did not have any say in the voting and he did not influence the fans (or other jurors)
Lindon
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I can't remember you defending an Austrian contribution at this level in the past. I'm happy about that. I'm notorious here and elsewhere as a 'promotor' of Austrian contributions, which has earned me some insults over the years even from Austrians.and somebody asked on another forum (where i wanted to register but it didn't work / taking long... so please feel free to copy this there aswell
that's because this time i have more insight than in previous years so if there are false rumours going around i'm happy to clear them up.
i'm not a supporter of all the decisions orf makes / has made but some "accusations" are just not true
Mainshow
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Forcher and Schreiber who are partly responsible for picking the entries which are presented to the ORF juries watched the Norwegian 2nd semi tonight and only liked one song and said that they got "Schädlweh" (headache).
It's funny how they think that one of the most competitive and interesting heats so far wasn't good at all. I love it when such people are in charge for picking entries.
It's funny how they think that one of the most competitive and interesting heats so far wasn't good at all. I love it when such people are in charge for picking entries.
Lindon
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"Schädlweh": what a beautiful Austrian word.
"Such people"
U know people have different tastes right
Oh and if u quote other people make sure you quote them correctly. Forcher said that the country duet would be lovely, none of them said they only liked 1 song, just because some Songs seem exhausting (in someones PERSONAL opinion)
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Mainshow
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I know that and that's totally fine if you're not responsible for picking entries which may represent your country.
If you work as a professional, you shouldn't allow your own personal taste in music be in the way.
That's why I was just raising my eyebrow at their comments on social media.
We've seen this several times in
national finals - Thomas Schreiber and other people working at NDR said that "Germany has been most successful at Eurovision with radio-friendly tracks" and that's what we got for years and why they neglected Lord of the Lost, Eskimo Callboy from participating.Same applies to
. The head of delegation knows that the songs weren't good enough or competitive. He just said that he believes Ireland should have qualified 25% (and he's also partly responsible for not letting more exciting and progressive or different countries be part of the NF).If the people being partly responsible for choosing the
entry get "Schädlweh" when contemporary pop songs or folk/metal songs take part, it's not a good sign, imo for trying something more "unique" or "different".Don't get me wrong, "Poe Poe Poe" was good and successful and Kaleen will probably also serve us some bop but it's still very Eurovision-esque, up-tempo and pop (and the other recent
entries were pop ballads in English and very radio-friendly as well).It just baffles me that a few people working at/for our broadcasters work as "gatekeepers" deciding which song "is good enough" and at parts, their personal taste in music or comments made in interviews or social media just show or prove that their personal taste in music may get in the way.
(it also applies to the juries in May, btw).
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I edited my former message and added that u did not quote correctly btw
Where is their personal taste in the way? They do not pick norways entry, so they are not allowed to have a personal Taste?
And maybe kaleens song is not their Personal taste either but they thought it's the "best" song for the occasion? U're confusing things here imo
And U are generalising here: if people dont like a specific folk or metal song it doesnt mean they dont appreciate this genre at all.If the people being partly responsible for choosing the
It just baffles me that a few people working at/for our broadcasters work as "gatekeepers" deciding which song "is good enough" and at parts, their personal taste in music or comments made in interviews or social media just show or prove that their personal taste in music may get in the way.
(it also applies to the juries in May, btw).
Mainshow
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I replied to your post when you haven't edited the post.
They used the term "Schädleweh" which is clearly negatively connoted to describe quite a competitive heat (if comments by fans count - of course, it's subjective as well). I also clearly referred to that heat and yes, I drew the concluision that it's not a good sign that people working as gatekeepers (only present songs to a jury which they like or think are worth listening to) label a whole heat as too loud, noisy causing "Schädleweh" (one wrote that comment and the other liked it).
When I read it, I immediately thought of NDR people getting "Schädleweh" when Eskimo Callboy applied.
Such tought made me think that they (the group of people deciding on the entries [yes, I know that's a generalisation because I don't know everyone involved and their tastes in music) may let their personal taste in music influence their professional work.
I think it goes without saying that a pop fan doesn't love all pop artists and pop songs created on Earth.
Also, they are allowed to "have their personal taste" and comment on it - but I'm also allowed to comment on their wording/reaction/taste - I mean, that's what we're doing on this forum as well.
I just questioned the process of selecting entries and presenting them to another questionable "jury" to pick an entry. I'm not confusing anything - I'm just pointing out that I think it's funny that a great heat most of us fans enjoyed (because of the diversity and performances and being competitive) [and we don't have a say which songs are presented to us in NFs or in May after they got internally selected] whilst such people (who are in charge) think completely different.
I hope I made my point clearer.
They used the term "Schädleweh" which is clearly negatively connoted to describe quite a competitive heat (if comments by fans count - of course, it's subjective as well). I also clearly referred to that heat and yes, I drew the concluision that it's not a good sign that people working as gatekeepers (only present songs to a jury which they like or think are worth listening to) label a whole heat as too loud, noisy causing "Schädleweh" (one wrote that comment and the other liked it).
When I read it, I immediately thought of
NDR people getting "Schädleweh" when Eskimo Callboy applied.Such tought made me think that they (the group of people deciding on the entries [yes, I know that's a generalisation because I don't know everyone involved and their tastes in music) may let their personal taste in music influence their professional work.
I think it goes without saying that a pop fan doesn't love all pop artists and pop songs created on Earth.
Also, they are allowed to "have their personal taste" and comment on it - but I'm also allowed to comment on their wording/reaction/taste - I mean, that's what we're doing on this forum as well.
I just questioned the process of selecting entries and presenting them to another questionable "jury" to pick an entry. I'm not confusing anything - I'm just pointing out that I think it's funny that a great heat most of us fans enjoyed (because of the diversity and performances and being competitive) [and we don't have a say which songs are presented to us in NFs or in May after they got internally selected] whilst such people (who are in charge) think completely different.
I hope I made my point clearer.
ok yes u made ur point clear and that still sounds very generalising to me.I replied to your post when you haven't edited the post.
They used the term "Schädleweh" which is clearly negatively connoted to describe quite a competitive heat (if comments by fans count - of course, it's subjective as well). I also clearly referred to that heat and yes, I drew the concluision that it's not a good sign that people working as gatekeepers (only present songs to a jury which they like or think are worth listening to) label a whole heat as too loud, noisy causing "Schädleweh" (one wrote that comment and the other liked it).
When I read it, I immediately thought of
Such tought made me think that they (the group of people deciding on the entries [yes, I know that's a generalisation because I don't know everyone involved and their tastes in music) may let their personal taste in music influence their professional work.
I think it goes without saying that a pop fan doesn't love all pop artists and pop songs created on Earth.
Also, they are allowed to "have their personal taste" and comment on it - but I'm also allowed to comment on their wording/reaction/taste - I mean, that's what we're doing on this forum as well.
I just questioned the process of selecting entries and presenting them to another questionable "jury" to pick an entry. I'm not confusing anything - I'm just pointing out that I think it's funny that a great heat most of us fans enjoyed (because of the diversity and performances and being competitive) [and we don't have a say which songs are presented to us in NFs or in May after they got internally selected] whilst such people (who are in charge) think completely different.
I hope I made my point clearer.
i agree the wording "schädlweh" is not great but it is PERSONAL. it doesn't match with ur taste so maybe that's why u like it even less (but i agree, it's not the best wording)
but still that doesn't mean that they would have excluded something of this NF if it applied for austria, u're really making assumptions there. EVERY genre was welcome in austria, i can guarantee u that. it's a personal opinion, it didn't even say which song(s) were meant, why do u assume it's about the folk / metal song? i find it quite baffling that u deny them their ability to do their job (in the country they work for) just because they don't find appeal in everything.
Mainshow
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I apologise if you took my comment as an offense. That was not my intention.
As a fan, I was wondering at the disparities between fans vs. people in charge and Forcher and Schreiber were just "unlucky" because I just noticed their comment(s)/like online and I pointed it out as an example of how strange it is that such people have a say in it. Of course, it's a generalisiation. We make use of generalisiation on a daily basis - also on this forum (every time someone says that "ballads perform better" or "Norwegian televoters opt for gimmick/fun entry" or "Germans vote for the bland, generic entry", "Italians for male artists" etc).
You may have more insight at the processes how to select an entry than we have, though.
To me (personal opinion), I just think it's worth pointing out that people in charge think that one of the most competitive heat in this NF so far (based on subjective fans comments, reactions) gets a "Schädlweh" comment.
Songs of different genres may have been part of the processes (as they were in Germany, for example) but in the end, they usually don't make it because a jury/individuals decide on their personal opinion/taste in music (that's how we got the shittiest NF in 2022 despite Eskimo Callboy, Lord of the Lost and more submitting songs).
And yes, even though it's a generalisation, I still question how professional such internal processes really are (but it applies to all Eurovision NF decisions - something I have pointed out in the threads of
and and many times).I don't deny them their ability to work - I just question their decisions (based on the recent Austrian entries as well as my reaction to a comment on the Norwegian heat (I personally loved) they made).
For example, as a fan, I would like to know which other songs - which may be very competitive, well-produced and/or showing some aspects of Austrian culture(s) and many fans my love - caused them a headache.
I'm just curious. - I don't have anything against them - and I think they've done a far better job than Thomas Schreiber from NDR.
ok, i (kind of) get you.
why i'm getting so defensive here: i'm involved in the project / selection and i know these people you're talking about and i can guarantee you they have the best intentions for the contest, the fans and the austrian music scene, they really do this with a lot of love and dedication and seriously want to find something unique. (GSGF or electric callboy would have been in the narrow selection within a second). and it's not about pushing their own taste on this AT ALL.
and it's not like there are 20 worldwide hits submitted to the NFs, u work with what u got, there were some really interesting more alternative artists in the preselection but they did not submit songs that were are good as expected / hoped for. that's it. believe me we would LOVE to find something very very special
we agree the schädlweh wording was not good, can we leave it there now and not bring it up 5 more times? (and btw it was not meant about a specific song but rather about the intensity of the song sequences and that the country duet stood out because it it had a calmness. but yes again: bad wording)
why i'm getting so defensive here: i'm involved in the project / selection and i know these people you're talking about and i can guarantee you they have the best intentions for the contest, the fans and the austrian music scene, they really do this with a lot of love and dedication and seriously want to find something unique. (GSGF or electric callboy would have been in the narrow selection within a second). and it's not about pushing their own taste on this AT ALL.
and it's not like there are 20 worldwide hits submitted to the NFs, u work with what u got, there were some really interesting more alternative artists in the preselection but they did not submit songs that were are good as expected / hoped for. that's it. believe me we would LOVE to find something very very special
we agree the schädlweh wording was not good, can we leave it there now and not bring it up 5 more times? (and btw it was not meant about a specific song but rather about the intensity of the song sequences and that the country duet stood out because it it had a calmness. but yes again: bad wording)
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Mainshow
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Thanks for your comment and your explanation!
It was probably just the bitter German Eurovision fan speaking and I got triggered by that word/comment because I would happily die if Germany ever puts such a NF together like Norway did. After so many uninspiring, uneventful and boring and mediocre NFs, I would have loved to get some "loud, noisy" entries (last year's NF was a great one in terms of variety, though).
I didn't mean to harm or insult them. I even initally said that the disparities (fans vs. people in charge) was funny.
I guess, I made that comment based on the "German trauma caused by NDR's decisions by such people (in charge)" I experienced as well as my being shocked at their reaction to yesterday's heat whilst I was honestly blown away (of course, it's a matter of taste, subjective, a generalisation).
Also, I laughed at "Schädlweh" as a word - I even thought it was lowkey cute (even though I highly disagree with them).
I agree with them about the duet, though - it was pure, honest, beautiful (and I wouldn't mind seeing them represent Norway). So they can't be that wrong, either xD
All good, ja?
@Mainshow yes all good.
I'm so defensive in this case because it sometimes seems Fans almost assume / expect that the people "in charge" (the scouts are not even the final decision makers) are some arrogant pricks who deliberately want to piss off of as many people at the same time as possible - Fans, artists, the public... in Austria thats definitely not the case, of course they want to find a song that does well and sticks out. Not everything is perfect there but i guarantee you they are trying
I'm so defensive in this case because it sometimes seems Fans almost assume / expect that the people "in charge" (the scouts are not even the final decision makers) are some arrogant pricks who deliberately want to piss off of as many people at the same time as possible - Fans, artists, the public... in Austria thats definitely not the case, of course they want to find a song that does well and sticks out. Not everything is perfect there but i guarantee you they are trying