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TURKEY 2013 - not taking part

A-lister

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Oh dear, your understanding of irony is weak.

I don't have any mission like to defend Turkey. Just I dont like hearsay generalizations and exaggerations as you did. Nevermind. If it was about Denmark, I could defend it the same way. And I think Denmark and all other countries shouldn't have different status than big five. The idea of introducing Turkey as a sixth big is a more stupid thing than big five rule. No big rule thing, and I think all expenses of ESC has to be equally shared by the countries.

Actually I'm not Danish... but that's a different discussion.

Well, atleast we agree that the Big 5 idea is a bad concept. I'd rather all countries (except for the host) compete in the semis.

Anyways, it's 100% sure Turkey is out or what?
 

wayneofway

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Actually I'm not Danish... but that's a different discussion.

Well, atleast we agree that the Big 5 idea is a bad concept. I'd rather all countries (except for the host) compete in the semis.

Anyways, it's 100% sure Turkey is out or what?

Yes, sure. Turkey is out.
 

DanielLuis

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Oh dear, your understanding of irony is weak.

I don't have any mission like to defend Turkey. Just I dont like hearsay generalizations and exaggerations as you did. Nevermind. If it was about Denmark, I could defend it the same way. And I think Denmark and all other countries shouldn't have different status than big five. The idea of introducing Turkey as a sixth big is a more stupid thing than big five rule. No big rule thing, and I think all expenses of ESC has to be equally shared by the countries.

While I do agree that maybe the big 5 should compete in the semi-final, not all countries should pay the same fees. For example, Greece and Portugal who are fighting a big crisis shouldn't pay as much as, say, Germany, and small countries like San Marino, Monaco and Andorra should definetely not pay as much as Germany or the UK.
 

demonl

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Time to change the format to something new and cheaper. Each country makes arrangements for a live performance of their act in their city of choice, each act gets broadcast to the rest of Europe along with a short performance or video showcasing that city as an intro to the act. Then after all acts have performed there is a vote and the winner wins. Loses the charm of all acts in same concert hall on the same night, but would be cheaper as the broadcaster can spend big or little depending on what they want. Then no big payments to the big corrupt EBU.
 

A-lister

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Time to change the format to something new and cheaper. Each country makes arrangements for a live performance of their act in their city of choice, each act gets broadcast to the rest of Europe along with a short performance or video showcasing that city as an intro to the act. Then after all acts have performed there is a vote and the winner wins. Loses the charm of all acts in same concert hall on the same night, but would be cheaper as the broadcaster can spend big or little depending on what they want. Then no big payments to the big corrupt EBU.

Would be a catastrophe!!!! Sorry but worst idea ever, and actually the "LiveAid/8/Earth - concerts in different places" concept is not as cheap as you might think.
 

wayneofway

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Time to change the format to something new and cheaper. Each country makes arrangements for a live performance of their act in their city of choice, each act gets broadcast to the rest of Europe along with a short performance or video showcasing that city as an intro to the act. Then after all acts have performed there is a vote and the winner wins. Loses the charm of all acts in same concert hall on the same night, but would be cheaper as the broadcaster can spend big or little depending on what they want. Then no big payments to the big corrupt EBU.

Brilliant, although it has some drawbacks!
 

evija87

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Then better stay away. I totally agree with Daniel, even tough I love Turkey in ESC. Does anyone in TRT has a brain? Is their propaganda too blind to notice they were second and fourth with the juries? Do they believe that lie repeated a hundred times becomes a truth - releasing info to press about start of 50-50 system in 2011, not 2009?
Or is it a evasion from particpating due to politcs ?
Dear TRT whatever your reason - xpoke :evil:
 

CC92

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Is their propaganda too blind to notice they were second and fourth with the juries?

I can understand why people are upset about Turkey benefitting from diaspora votes but this argument is so braindead. The western/Big-5 broadcasters also were well aware of the fact that televoting hadn't started in 2007 but they did not complain/ask for another system until they had fared badly. That's business and in that respect TRT is acting no worse than others.
 

evija87

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Am I upset about diaspora? Hold your horses, I never said anything like it - I often said Turkey was underrated and didn't complain when they scored well due to some televote help. What I mean is that TRT seem to try to pose juries as some organ totally biased against them and those terms of their return based by removing jury is just stupid. At best they aren't familliar of the rules they competed in 2009-2010. At worst they do it on purpose to justify their actions.
 

CC92

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What I mean is that TRT seem to try to pose juries as some organ totally biased against them and those terms of their return based by removing jury is just stupid.

Well, I think the jury is biassed against them and others, too. It's not only about countries and politics though but also about certain music styles they like to either butcher or promote. In 2010, for example, they sent something they like hence the many points. On balance, however, I think it's fair that the jury isn't a big help for Turkey.
 

evija87

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Hadise 4th: - 3rd in televote, 7th in jury vote http://www.eurovision.tv/upload/2009/results/EurovisionSongContest2009_JuryResults.pdf
Manga 2nd: - 2nd televoted 8th jury EBU reveals split voting outcome, surprising results | News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013
YS (no final) - Jury voting 58 points, televote 54 - juries liked it more than televoters... News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013 id=36713&_t=ebu_reveals_split_televoting_and_jury_results
Can 7th: - 4th televote 22nd in jury vote and that's the only case jury literally sunk their ship Eurovision 2012 split jury-televote results revealed | News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013
^ and personally I'm not shocked why, looking at Can's performance and considering the fact he performed right after Loreen

but I wouldn't say jury hate Turkey, maybe don't fully apreciate but it's not a bias in my opinion xshrug
 

Impressive

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Then better stay away. I totally agree with Daniel, even tough I love Turkey in ESC. Does anyone in TRT has a brain? Is their propaganda too blind to notice they were second and fourth with the juries? Do they believe that lie repeated a hundred times becomes a truth - releasing info to press about start of 50-50 system in 2011, not 2009?
Or is it a evasion from particpating due to politcs ?
Dear TRT whatever your reason - xpoke :evil:

Can Bonomo was 4th in televoting and 22nd in jury point. So, surely TRT is looking for a true right. Even tough this is not health way, they are not doing bad anything at all. Also, looking for rights is a thing to support. Only thing is that TRT doesn't try to handle this friendly, a bit tyrannly. I wish EBU would make a meeting with all placing countries and find a common way. Anyway, I don't think TRT is acting stupid, I just would prefer a reconciliation.
 

Matt

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I wouln't worry about it too much. Taking a year off isn't always a bad thing. I'm quite confident that they'll be back next year. They were butt hurt that the juries didn't rank it hight last year and will get over it quickly or at least start some constructive dialog.
 

Impressive

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I wouln't worry about it too much. Taking a year off isn't always a bad thing. I'm quite confident that they'll be back next year. They were butt hurt that the juries didn't rank it hight last year and will get over it quickly or at least start some constructive dialog.

I don't agree with you. Until now, TRT always acted very determined. They never conceded. After all those things, if they take a part again like nothing happened it would be the weirdist thing ever in ESC...
 

Matt

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I don't agree with you. Until now, TRT always acted very determined. They never conceded. After all those things, if they take a part again like nothing happened it would be the weirdist thing ever in ESC...

The fact that they withdrew last minute without any communication with the EBU to address their concerns is already weird enough. Them returning the following year wouldn't make it more weird.
 

CC92

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Hadise 4th: - 3rd in televote, 7th in jury vote http://www.eurovision.tv/upload/2009/results/EurovisionSongContest2009_JuryResults.pdf
Manga 2nd: - 2nd televoted 8th jury EBU reveals split voting outcome, surprising results | News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013
YS (no final) - Jury voting 58 points, televote 54 - juries liked it more than televoters... News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013 id=36713&_t=ebu_reveals_split_televoting_and_jury_results
Can 7th: - 4th televote 22nd in jury vote and that's the only case jury literally sunk their ship Eurovision 2012 split jury-televote results revealed | News | Eurovision Song Contest - Malmö 2013
^ and personally I'm not shocked why, looking at Can's performance and considering the fact he performed right after Loreen

but I wouldn't say jury hate Turkey, maybe don't fully apreciate but it's not a bias in my opinion xshrug

Still all their scores are lower with the jury than with the televotings. And as I've mentioned above, the jury has a strong tendency to (pretty blindly) vote for certain styles/aspects (e.g. American genres, big voices, classic western ballads, female vocals) and at the same time trash most what is out of the box, ethnic or a bit rockish. Good reasons not to be exactly keen on being dictated to what to send in order to avoid getting 'punished' by a small bunch of grandmothers. Furthermore every year we face zero transparency with that system and it's common knowlegde that quite a lot cheating and bribing is going on.
In short they're pissed off and quite frankly I wouldn't participate under these circumstances either. There's no rule that broadcasters are bound to take part. If EBU wants them back they will have to compromise.
 

toinou03

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Biased juries ??? Tss... one year, one country is favoured, one year not... It was said it would benefit only for Big-5 and western countries... Indeed, one of the countries that benefited most of the jury vote is Ukraine... Juries loved Alyosha, Gaitana, and they will love Zlata also... Though before juries Ukraine was on top also...

Or for instance as for us :
2009 (Patricia Kaas) : public : 17 / jury : 4 / both : 8
2010 (Jessy Matador) : public : 8 / jury : 22 / both : 12
2011 (Amaury Vassili) : public : 15 / jury : 11 / both : 11
2012 (Anggun) : public : 26 / jury : 13 / both : 22

Public remains sovereign but it gives fairer things. And it gave us less freak shows in the semis... And for instance, I preferred to see Getter Jaani qualifying rather than "I love Belarus"...

As for the Big 5, we already debated abouut it, it will never disappear, or Eurovision would disappear with it. France wouldn't broadcast on a main channel a Eurovision final without France... And to be broadcasted on a little channel it would be too expansive. And the same goes to the whole Big 5. It's not all about the fees... It's also that in our Big 5, TV represents a lot of money. Viewing figures in France are important and looked at every day. Because it means advertisement, et cetera. In France, ads are not like Albania or Malta, with commercials for your hairdresser... It's hundreads of thousands of euros the minute, if not millions sometimes... Too low viewing figures would put in danger the broadcasters...
Already, the viewing figures of Eurovision are low in France. And it will probably be a massacre this year as the private TV who used to not attack Eurovision will broadcast the final of the Voice on the Eurovision evening...
And there is a level where Eurovision will be too expensive for too low ratings...

It's the same problem with JESC : too bad for main public channels, too expensive for small one...
 
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