The Stage

[Celia]

I have to say I love spectacular stages but this one looks ok so far. I think they'll surprise us with the light and camera work!

 

[Stargazer]

It'll also be the end of big shows though, which is a pity because ESC will lose alot of its entertainment value. The ballad lovers will love the change, but I think it's killing the diversity once and for all.

Also, it's been proven that intimacy works aswell on big stages, because it all depends on the camera work and choreography basically. Now all are forced to have these "intimate" shows which I don't approve of at all... you'll notice in some years if this continues that we'll be back to the 90's with more or less only ballads. I'm not against intimate shows, but I'm against the idea that all entries have to fit into one type of formula (which eventually will result in more or less same-y entries in the future)... I want diversity... big and small, bombastic and intimate... but how will this be possible with the new approach? shrug

Yeah because we only had ballads on the small stages in the past? Not true. Why would the stage dictate what entries people will send in the future? Most entries are selected before the stage is revealed anyhow and just because we have a smaller enclosed stage this year doesn't mean this is what we will see every single year from now on.

I don't think the gigantic stages have provided intimacy at all. Those who have been alone have looked practically lost on that vast empty stage. The stages of the past few years have also forced everyone to fit into one type of formula, since they've all relied solely on the huge LED screens. If you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing, since there was nothing else on stage.

Why wouldn't this stage be able to deliver bombastic performances? A lot of that is created with lights and camerawork anyhow and if the artists deliver a bombastic performance, I'm sure it will look bombastic on TV.

 

[anto475]

Yeah because we only had ballads on the small stages in the past? Not true. Why would the stage dictate what entries people will send in the future? Most entries are selected before the stage is revealed anyhow and just because we have a smaller enclosed stage this year doesn't mean this is what we will see every single year from now on.

I don't think the gigantic stages have provided intimacy at all. Those who have been alone have looked practically lost on that vast empty stage. The stages of the past few years have also forced everyone to fit into one type of formula, since they've all relied solely on the huge LED screens. If you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing, since there was nothing else on stage.

Why wouldn't this stage be able to deliver bombastic performances? A lot of that is created with lights and camerawork anyhow and if the artists deliver a bombastic performance, I'm sure it will look bombastic on TV.

I agree with this almost totally. If bigger stages meant for more bombastic songs, why did so many countries select ballads over the last two years and in 2009.

I mean 2007 and 2010 were small stages but they were effective for bombastic entries like Finland 07, Turkey 10, Turkey 07, Denmark 10, Albania 10 etc. etc. Also in 2010 the lack of LEDs added a certain class to the songs I felt. Like maybe songs like Horehronie or Drip-Drop could have done with an LED backdrop, but imagine how tacky Satellite would have looked with a big LED thing of stars and satellites and rocketships flying around behind it or We Could Be The Same with flames and all typical rock-entry things or Sweet People with a big planet on fire or shots of Chernobyl or something. All the entries that year felt so fresh and vibrant with just the normal lighting.

Ironically for the proponents of the LED idea, the one thing that stood out for me in the 2011 stage was the normal lighting during Lena's and Kari Wolf's performances. I'd love another year with a stage like Oslo's.

 

[QwaarJet]

I don't think the gigantic stages have provided intimacy at all. Those who have been alone have looked practically lost on that vast empty stage. The stages of the past few years have also forced everyone to fit into one type of formula, since they've all relied solely on the huge LED screens. If you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing, since there was nothing else on stage.

Just a point on the LED stuff. I can't understand why you wouldn't want LED screens. They add another fantastic layer to the performance, and it rewards those that are most creative with the backdrop. France in 2011 and Serbia in 2012 stand out as adding so much to the overall performance and show. I feel It is a shame to lose that part of the show for no real reason.

I haven't given up on big ESC shows though, I have a feeling Sweden might be a one-off, unless a small country with little money wins this year. But, if UK, Germany, Russia, Denmark etc. win, I find it hard to believe they won't aim big, just like the last few hosts.

 

[A-lister]

Yeah because we only had ballads on the small stages in the past? Not true. Why would the stage dictate what entries people will send in the future? Most entries are selected before the stage is revealed anyhow and just because we have a smaller enclosed stage this year doesn't mean this is what we will see every single year from now on.

I don't think the gigantic stages have provided intimacy at all. Those who have been alone have looked practically lost on that vast empty stage. The stages of the past few years have also forced everyone to fit into one type of formula, since they've all relied solely on the huge LED screens. If you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing, since there was nothing else on stage.

Why wouldn't this stage be able to deliver bombastic performances? A lot of that is created with lights and camerawork anyhow and if the artists deliver a bombastic performance, I'm sure it will look bombastic on TV.

In the 90's ESC was mostly ballads yes, sure there were some uptempo songs but they could never have such shows as they could in the 00's/10's. To say that stages doesn't dictate what type of show one can make I totally disagree with.

I also disagree that big stages means that you can't have intimate shows, it all depends on the camera work here. I mean perhaps if you're in the arena it'll look strange, but I talk from a TV-viewer's perspective. Look at many of the ballads? Loreen's performance for instance? It worked out well.

I don't hate LED backdrops what-so-ever as they are a tool to add personality to the different entries, again no one is forced to use them (hello Loreen!), but now all entries are forced to make the shows in a same-y way and I don't like it. For technical reasons we couldn't have such effects during the 90's, but why going back to the relic times? Not everything was better before... I bet you want the orchestra back aswell? (which practically would mean the end of everything different sounding).

 

[A-lister]

I agree with this almost totally. If bigger stages meant for more bombastic songs, why did so many countries select ballads over the last two years and in 2009.

I mean 2007 and 2010 were small stages but they were effective for bombastic entries like Finland 07, Turkey 10, Turkey 07, Denmark 10, Albania 10 etc. etc. Also in 2010 the lack of LEDs added a certain class to the songs I felt. Like maybe songs like Horehronie or Drip-Drop could have done with an LED backdrop, but imagine how tacky Satellite would have looked with a big LED thing of stars and satellites and rocketships flying around behind it or We Could Be The Same with flames and all typical rock-entry things or Sweet People with a big planet on fire or shots of Chernobyl or something. All the entries that year felt so fresh and vibrant with just the normal lighting.

Ironically for the proponents of the LED idea, the one thing that stood out for me in the 2011 stage was the normal lighting during Lena's and Kari Wolf's performances. I'd love another year with a stage like Oslo's.

Funny that what you point out here is the crucial aspect though and the very point with my criticism of the current direction ... the entrants had more options then! They could choose to use the LED's or not to! I mean it's not as if they were forced to use the LED effects right? (as you clearly point out). Now however all are forced into one basic formula and it's killing the diversity! I mean just because you prefer the intimate type of show, doesn't mean that all do and that all entries benefits from the same type of approach. I could also prefer intimate shows, but I want different type of shows though!

You also point out that ballads could work well on bigger stages (contrary to what Stargazer believes), so again you contradict yourself... I hardly see this as criticism towards bigger stage, more a confirmation on how diverse they can be used!

My whole point is that I don't like the idea to force all into a certain formula, before you had more options... you could use the LED's, you could choose not to... you could make an intimate show with the right camera work and choreography... or you could make a big-show with lots of things going on... all depending on your preferences and what worked with the certain entries.

And now? They want all to follow the same basics...

 

[Mickey]

Read back through this thread. Those who want a big stage say that's fine, because ballads still work on a big stage with LEDs and give examples. Those who want a smaller stage say that's fine too, because uptempo bombastic songs still work on a smaller LED-less stage. So, basically, it makes no difference to the songs?

I don't really have a particular preference either way. All I want is a bit of variety. I don't want every ESC to look the same. I want each country to put their own stamp on the show and if for Sweden that means a smaller stage with no LED screens, that's fine with me.

 

[A-lister]

Read back through this thread. Those who want a big stage say that's fine, because ballads still work on a big stage with LEDs and give examples. Those who want a smaller stage say that's fine too, because uptempo bombastic songs still work on a smaller LED-less stage. So, basically, it makes no difference to the songs?

I've yet to see any good examples of where uptempo bombastic songs have worked on small stages though? Most of these entries we've got during the years with big stages

 

[Mickey]

I've yet to see any good examples of where uptempo bombastic songs have worked on small stages though? Most of these entries we've got during the years with big stages

I guess it depends on what you consider to be small, but as a lot of people bring up 2010, I'll name France from that year. Still my favourite staging of a big uptempo number. Romania and Serbia also put on good shows with nothing but lights, pyro and good props. You don't need an LED screen.

2007 had a small stage, but that didn't hold Verka back.

 

[A-lister]

I guess it depends on what you consider to be small, but as a lot of people bring up 2010, I'll name France from that year. Still my favourite staging of a big uptempo number. Romania and Serbia also put on good shows with nothing but lights, pyro and good props. You don't need an LED screen.

2007 had a small stage, but that didn't hold Verka back.

I guess we have different definitions on "bombastic" then

2007 may have been small but it felt "bigger" somehow. I think they had LED's aswell? (but I might be wrong on that).

 

[Mickey]

I guess we have different definitions on "bombastic" then

2007 may have been small but it felt "bigger" somehow. I think they had LED's aswell? (but I might be wrong on that).

Was Jessy Matador not uptempo enough for you? Don't think there was any song in 2010 more worthy of your bombastic tag.

Yeah, 2007 had LEDs, but it wasn't exactly a massive video wall.

Maybe it would be easier if you specified a stage that is small enough for your purposes.

 

[Stargazer]

Just a point on the LED stuff. I can't understand why you wouldn't want LED screens. They add another fantastic layer to the performance, and it rewards those that are most creative with the backdrop. France in 2011 and Serbia in 2012 stand out as adding so much to the overall performance and show. I feel It is a shame to lose that part of the show for no real reason.

I haven't given up on big ESC shows though, I have a feeling Sweden might be a one-off, unless a small country with little money wins this year. But, if UK, Germany, Russia, Denmark etc. win, I find it hard to believe they won't aim big, just like the last few hosts.

I've never said I don't want LED screens. I don't mind them, but what I do mind is having nothing but them, like in 2011 for example. I don't like the empty stage-look at all. I want some sort of structure/framing to the stage - not just a platform with a screen in the background. We'll finally get that this year so I'm ecstatic!

Bigger isn't always better. In my opinion, as far as the past few years are concerned, bigger has always been worse. The focus for me should always be the songs, not the performances, but I guess I'm just old school.

In the 90's ESC was mostly ballads yes, sure there were some uptempo songs but they could never have such shows as they could in the 00's/10's. To say that stages doesn't dictate what type of show one can make I totally disagree with.

I also disagree that big stages means that you can't have intimate shows, it all depends on the camera work here. I mean perhaps if you're in the arena it'll look strange, but I talk from a TV-viewer's perspective. Look at many of the ballads? Loreen's performance for instance? It worked out well.

I don't hate LED backdrops what-so-ever as they are a tool to add personality to the different entries, again no one is forced to use them (hello Loreen!), but now all entries are forced to make the shows in a same-y way and I don't like it. For technical reasons we couldn't have such effects during the 90's, but why going back to the relic times? Not everything was better before... I bet you want the orchestra back aswell? (which practically would mean the end of everything different sounding).

And because the up-tempos of the past did not have the option of a huge stage, a lot more focus was therefore put on the songs, rather than dazzling people with an over-the-top show so they think the entry is better than it actually is. I didn't say the stage doesn't dictate what kind of show one can make - I said the stage doesn't dictate what kind of songs will be sent, since most the songs are selected before the stage is revealed.

Loreen had an intimate show, I agree with that, but all the other ballads did not feel intimate to me and that is all down to the huge LED screens and having nothing else on stage. Loreen did not use the LED screens, so her performance was all dark and mysterious and therefore felt more intimate because you couldn't see how big the stage was.

Everyone was forced to make their shows the same way on the 2009 and 2011 stage as well. You only had the option of having LED screens (since that is all there was on stage) and if you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing. Nothing! It worked for Loreen because that's what the performance was all about, but would have looked odd and dull for everyone else.

And yeah I'm old-school and proud of it. I want the orchestra, the language rule and the juries back, because it's what made Eurovision; Eurovision. But I guess that could be hard to understand if you care more for quantity than quality. If you care more about the show than the songs.

 

[CrimTV]

I've never said I don't want LED screens. I don't mind them, but what I do mind is having nothing but them, like in 2011 for example. I don't like the empty stage-look at all. I want some sort of structure/framing to the stage - not just a platform with a screen in the background. We'll finally get that this year so I'm ecstatic!

Bigger isn't always better. In my opinion, as far as the past few years are concerned, bigger has always been worse. The focus for me should always be the songs, not the performances, but I guess I'm just old school.


And because the up-tempos of the past did not have the option of a huge stage, a lot more focus was therefore put on the songs, rather than dazzling people with an over-the-top show so they think the entry is better than it actually is. I didn't say the stage doesn't dictate what kind of show one can make - I said the stage doesn't dictate what kind of songs will be sent, since most the songs are selected before the stage is revealed.

Loreen had an intimate show, I agree with that, but all the other ballads did not feel intimate to me and that is all down to the huge LED screens and having nothing else on stage. Loreen did not use the LED screens, so her performance was all dark and mysterious and therefore felt more intimate because you couldn't see how big the stage was.

Everyone was forced to make their shows the same way on the 2009 and 2011 stage as well. You only had the option of having LED screens (since that is all there was on stage) and if you didn't want a LED backdrop you would have been left with nothing. Nothing! It worked for Loreen because that's what the performance was all about, but would have looked odd and dull for everyone else.

And yeah I'm old-school and proud of it. I want the orchestra, the language rule and the juries back, because it's what made Eurovision; Eurovision. But I guess that could be hard to understand if you care more for quantity than quality. If you care more about the show than the songs.

Stargazer, I completely agree with you, I loved the 2010 stage whereas the 2009/2011/2012 stages looked very empty to me!

 

[Stargazer]

Stargazer, I completely agree with you, I loved the 2010 stage whereas the 2009/2011/2012 stages looked very empty to me!

Glad I'm not alone! Hehe. And yup, I really liked the 2010 stage but didn't like 2009 and 2011. While 2012 still looked empty and was way too big for my liking, at least it was a bit different because the LED screens were broken up and placed in different angles, so at least there was something else added to the stage in that regard.

 

[LalehForWD]

I agree with you too Stargazer except for your dismissal of the show component. In my perception of Eurovision, the song is tightly connected with a live act and not any live act but the one at Eurovision which is broadcast on TV. The same song in studio version or another live performance is not the same for me. It's a unique song performed at a very special occasion.

 

[QwaarJet]

I've never said I don't want LED screens. I don't mind them, but what I do mind is having nothing but them, like in 2011 for example. I don't like the empty stage-look at all. I want some sort of structure/framing to the stage - not just a platform with a screen in the background. We'll finally get that this year so I'm ecstatic!

Bigger isn't always better. In my opinion, as far as the past few years are concerned, bigger has always been worse. The focus for me should always be the songs, not the performances, but I guess I'm just old school.

Ah right, I get you now. I actually thought 2011's stage was one of the best ever, because of It's simplicity. Massive circular raised platform with no structure and a giant screen behind it. That's really what I'm looking for. We obviously disagree on this, but I get where you're coming from now.

 

[penguinperson]

The only songs that made use of the LED in 2011 were Lipstick and TBAS. The rest looked really empty. 2012 was slightly better but not by much. The Brits for example always use some kind of structuring each year opposed to a video wall and it makes the place less vast.

 

[Mickey]

The only songs that made use of the LED in 2011 were Lipstick and TBAS.

I'd add Da Da Dam, Caroban, Feel The Passion and Rockefeller Street to that list.

 

[penguinperson]

I'd add Da Da Dam, Caroban, Feel The Passion and Rockefeller Street to that list.

Maybe Da Da Dam I know Caroban made some people motion sick so that's never good. Can't remember FtP. Rockefeller street had too much going on in general on stage and the screens a true let's go OTT performance.

 

[toinou03]

In 2011, Leds were a big part of Da Da Dam and also Angel from Ukraine...
And also used by Ireland, Estonia, Greece, France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Georgia, Armenia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, etc.

But true that a lot of people didn't use it...

And of course last year... Loreen made the opposite !