Running order for 2013

[A-lister]

On news sites and blogs in Sweden, the rule change is what I can see received positively. The hope of getting ESC to a new level is getting fed by this and the confidence in ESC in Malmö SVT management is getting stronger. Sorry, but this is my impression.

Swedish news comments:
Expressen
TT Spektra

Do you ever question anything reported in Swedish news?

Anyways, I still think this is an awful idea and it's pretty clear who controls the word here...

 

[LalehForWD]

Do you ever question anything reported in Swedish news?

Anyways, I still think this is an awful idea and it's pretty clear who controls the word here...

Well, as usual I can't decide what is good or bad because I don't know the facts. I'm not getting any gut feeling in any direction either. The drama surrounding the drawing of starting numbers have always been a mystery to me. Why is it exciting? And now, when everybody storms away angry and upset over something that for me is totally elusive, I only get suspicious. Yet another opportunity for the haters to diss Sweden, SVT and Christer Björkman, I think. Grrr.

 

[A-lister]

Well, as usual I can't decide what is good or bad because I don't know the facts. I'm not getting any gut feeling in any direction either. The drama surrounding the drawing of starting numbers have always been a mystery to me. Why is it exciting? And now, when everybody storms away angry and upset over something that for me is totally elusive, I only get suspicious. Yet another opportunity for the haters to diss Sweden, SVT and Christer Björkman, I think. Grrr.

Well, the starting numbers are of importance I'm afraid. It's also funny how Björkman mentions the starting number for the Swedish entry each year, and now he probably influenced this decision. I don't like this at all, it should be as fair and unbiased as much as possible.

 

[DanielLuis]

I can see why they're doing this. Remember the final of ESC 2011? Song 5-10 where all uptempo fan favourites songs. That has probably contributed to Hungary's 22nd and Estonia's 24th places.
However, this will be extremely unfair since the big favourites will probably be put in favourable draws. Also, the hosts will probably draw themselves a good running order position, and, who knows, their neighbours. Had this been done last year, Turkey would have a fantastic draw for example.

 

[A-lister]

I can see why they're doing this. Remember the final of ESC 2011? Song 5-10 where all uptempo fan favourites songs. That has probably contributed to Hungary's 22nd and Estonia's 24th places.
However, this will be extremely unfair since the big favourites will probably be put in favourable draws. Also, the hosts will probably draw themselves a good running order position, and, who knows, their neighbours. Had this been done last year, Turkey would have a fantastic draw for example.

Exactly, this will just impose further corruption and 'friendhip-ism' on the contest, the last thing needed. I mean the contest in the hands on a less neutral, more corrupt country will probably mean that all 'friend countries' will end up with the best draw.

Only naive people can come up with an idea like this.

 

[LalehForWD]

Does anyone know where to find a rigorous statistical analysis on the impact of the Eurovision running order? We're pretty confident that the draw plays a big part in deciding the winner, but only fairly anecdotally. If you could provide clear mathematical proof for that, expressed in an academic manner, then any petitions/protests to broadcasters would carry greater weight.

Here is the model I was thinking of:
Martin O’Leary Cold Hard Facts

Available as OpenSource Python-scripts, which means one can modify the parameters.

Don't know how serious one can take it and how relevent it is for the subject at hand, though.

 

[vatroslav_cro]

I think that this MUST MOT PASS! It is illegal! The idea of petition seems good. If it will not be successful and this stupid rule won't be abolished, in that case I am for boycotting ESC by all the broadcasters! So we will see who will be dancing the winner dance then. Awkward!

 

[CC92]

I think that this MUST MOT PASS! It is illegal! The idea of petition seems good. If it will not be successful and this stupid rule won't be abolished, in that case I am for boycotting ESC by all the broadcasters! So we will see who will be dancing the winner dance then. Awkward!

EBU wants records, so they will have to submit themselves to the decisions they make.

 

[Steffan]

I think that this MUST MOT PASS! It is illegal! The idea of petition seems good. If it will not be successful and this stupid rule won't be abolished, in that case I am for boycotting ESC by all the broadcasters! So we will see who will be dancing the winner dance then. Awkward!

They will be so sad you won't watch their show

 

[Nikkita]

I think SVT is trying to change this contest into a disaster so their own lovely Melodifestivalen will look more good.
No leds,no cliche couples and no democracy? DAFUQ R U DOIN' SWEDEN

 

[vatroslav_cro]

They will be so sad you won't watch their show

I meant about the boycott by all BROADCASTERS who are involved, collective withdrawing, something like that!

 

[Andrzej1987]

If they want to avoid the same kind of songs being next to each other they can divide all songs into slow/fast and then randomly draw them, that way there's diversity in the contest and no country can have a better position than the other.

On a different note, Denmark/Norway already has 12 poits and Iceland 10 in the semis, lucky them :-)

 

[A-lister]

I'm afraid ESC will turn out even more politicized in the future with this awful idea, in more corrupted countries 'good' position slots will be paid for and 'friends' will get the best starting positions while 'enemies & antagonists' will get the worst ones. Also the PC hypocrite western countries such as Sweden will use it as a way to 'punish' countries they don't like (like poor Hungary for instance).

 

[A-lister]

I meant about the boycott by all BROADCASTERS who are involved, collective withdrawing, something like that!

This is a good idea, but I think we as fans have to be more active.

Who is good in starting a facebook group to spread the word? We should all write to our own national broadcasters about it.

I also want collective withdrawing by the 'punished' countries.

 

[Matt]

If they want to avoid the same kind of songs being next to each other they can divide all songs into slow/fast and then randomly draw them, that way there's diversity in the contest and no country can have a better position than the other.

On a different note, Denmark/Norway already has 12 poits and Iceland 10 in the semis, lucky them :-)

I had a similar thought yesterday. Put them into groups. Pop/Rock/Ballad/Dance etc and then do a draw using those pots.

 

[Milos-BC]

I'm afraid ESC will turn out even more politicized in the future with this awful idea, in more corrupted countries 'good' position slots will be paid for and 'friends' will get the best starting positions while 'enemies & antagonists' will get the worst ones. Also the PC hypocrite western countries such as Sweden will use it as a way to 'punish' countries they don't like (like poor Hungary for instance).

Absolutely, I completely agree. There is not that small number of people who think that everything is fixed for the "most appropriate" country to win (because of economical and other reasons too), and this surely won't make them change their mind.

I am terribly disappointed, and no matter what some people think the room for all sorts of fixings is open. I am also less and less believing in the juries as well. Now they can destroy one's chances to win almost completely. They can put the favorites one next to another performing on spots 1, 2 and 3 (they will likely be of different genres, which perfectly fits this demagogy that was sold to us) and they can bribe the juries too. Like we will know if they have done that.

I heard a lot of stories about countries buying placements from people who are quite credible, although I didn't want to believe in that, but with this development of things, my degree of suspicion is very high, and if this corruption proves itself in practice.......ESC is history for me. That will not be the same festival that I used to love, and I don't want to watch a farce directed by people with huge complexes but Eurovision Song Contest!

 

[Tjipptjopp]

If they want to avoid the same kind of songs being next to each other they can divide all songs into slow/fast and then randomly draw them, that way there's diversity in the contest and no country can have a better position than the other.

Yes that would be the fair way to do it.

Anyway, the reason this change would be bad is it takes away some of the contest part of the show. If this is what is desired, isn't it time to finally let every country give points to more than 10 songs? Maybe give half points and keep 12 as the highest score. This would clearly be good for the contest, right?

 

[LalehForWD]

Yes that would be the fair way to do it.

Anyway, the reason this change would be bad is it takes away some of the contest part of the show. If this is what is desired, isn't it time to finally let every country give points to more than 10 songs? Maybe give half points and keep 12 as the highest score. This would clearly be good for the contest, right?

Good point. If removing a piece from the contest, replace it with something new (and hopefully better).

 

[LalehForWD]

Absolutely, I completely agree. There is not that small number of people who think that everything is fixed for the "most appropriate" country to win (because of economical and other reasons too), and this surely won't make them change their mind.

I am terribly disappointed, and no matter what some people think the room for all sorts of fixings is open. I am also less and less believing in the juries as well. Now they can destroy one's chances to win almost completely. They can put the favorites one next to another performing on spots 1, 2 and 3 (they will likely be of different genres, which perfectly fits this demagogy that was sold to us) and they can bribe the juries too. Like we will know if they have done that.

I heard a lot of stories about countries buying placements from people who are quite credible, although I didn't want to believe in that, but with this development of things, my degree of suspicion is very high, and if this corruption proves itself in practice.......ESC is history for me. That will not be the same festival that I used to love, and I don't want to watch a farce directed by people with huge complexes but Eurovision Song Contest!

It sounds very unlikely to be able to buy votes on such large scale that you win Eurovision. Winning is also in this case the only option, coming second is just a waste of money. How would you go about to fix such a thing? Bribing officials/jury would perhaps be possible in some cases, but it's not enough to win. The classical EBU have a secret agenda and picks a winner beforehand out of political and economical reasons, is of course possible. But for me it just seems like nonsense.

If there really are corruption in parts of the contest, why not deal with it openly instead of avoiding changes in fear it may led to further conspiracy theories?

 

[A-lister]

It sounds very unlikely to be able to buy votes on such large scale that you win Eurovision. Winning is also in this case the only option, coming second is just a waste of money. How would you go about to fix such a thing? Bribing officials/jury would perhaps be possible in some cases, but it's not enough to win. The classical EBU have a secret agenda and picks a winner beforehand out of political and economical reasons, is of course possible. But for me it just seems like nonsense.

If there really are corruption in parts of the contest, why not deal with it openly instead of avoiding changes in fear it may led to further conspiracy theories?

It's obvious you live in the Swedish bubble

Half of Europe (if not more) is corrupted and while it may seem like the strangest thing in the world in eyes of a Swede, it's very common. I mean victories have already been bought in this contest so