Running order for 2013

[Franco]

SVT won't help the neighbors, you can trust me on that... they don't even like Sweden, so why would they help our neighbors?

I wouldn't be worried about that thing, I'm more worried about other things.

I'm not worried that they can make things easy for Norway and Denmark at the expense of the other entries. One of these two is likely to be the winner anyway (according to what we've seen so far).
I'm worried that, by choosing if Norway has to perform before or after Denmark, they will probably choose also which one will be this year's winner. They will favour either Norway at the expense of Denmark, or Denmark at the expense of Norway, regardless of their will to help them or not.

 

[Mickey]

The trouble comes in the final. As the article states, Norway and Denmark are the most likely to win, so far, and they are both host's neighbours. Fixing the order between these two will probably mean fixing the winner. How can they get away with it?

My feeling is that they're going to put the favourites early. That way they don't get as many points and there is a more closely fought vote. As a bonus, if one of those favourites then win, EBU can then say the draw doesn't matter, since x country won last year and they put them on 2nd.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I cant see them being bothered about who's the favourite or who's not the favourite. What matters is £$€ only.

 

[GRE]

I think that if Ebu wants to be fair,
then should bring back the rule that people can vote from the beginning of the show,
so that the running order will not influence much the result.

 

[Matt]

I think that if Ebu wants to be fair,
then should bring back the rule that people can vote from the beginning of the show,
so that the running order will not influence much the result.

The two or three years they did that they discovered that almost nobody voted during that time window and waited until the last song to call in for their favorites. In addition, I must say I like it that the screen is not as messy. When they allowed voting from the beginning of the show, they were required to use a third of the screen to how the numbers and song information which I found rather distracting.

 

[GRE]

The two or three years they did that they discovered that almost nobody voted during that time window and waited until the last song to call in for their favorites. In addition, I must say I like it that the screen is not as messy. When they allowed voting from the beginning of the show, they were required to use a third of the screen to how the numbers and song information which I found rather distracting.

Well i have thought this solution,because i am sure that after the Contest,many countries will complain about the rule of the "producers".
And you tell me that its better not to messy your screen.

 

[Matt]

Well i have thought this solution,because i am sure that after the Contest,many countries will complain about the rule of the "producers".
And you tell me that its better not to messy your screen.

No, I said that almost nobody calls in during the show, everyone waits until the end of the show. The screen was just a personal addition.
TBH, even if they did change it back to letting people call in from the beginning of the show, that will not make the complaints go away as it has no impact whatsoever.

 

[GRE]

No, I said that almost nobody calls in during the show, everyone waits until the end of the show. The screen was just a personal addition.
TBH, even if they did change it back to letting people call in from the beginning of the show, that will not make the complaints go away as it has no impact whatsoever.

But when a country will complain,then Ebu could say to them "Hey,you could be voted also during the show the lines were open!"
If this does not happen,how Ebu will tell to a country with a ballad,why did they put their song in spot n.2,and also they put a similar ballad in n.24?

 

[A-lister]

Wait did I miss something? Did they bring back the possibility to call from the beginning of the show?

Anyways this running-order thing is destroying the contest's spirit, it's just open up for corruption and even further withdrawals. If they don't add some sort of randomized way of picking the running order (like drawing the entries from genre-slots which would be totally cool by me), then the credibility of the contest will fall fast.

 

[Matt]

Wait did I miss something? Did they bring back the possibility to call from the beginning of the show?

Anyways this running-order thing is destroying the contest's spirit, it's just open up for corruption and even further withdrawals. If they don't add some sort of randomized way of picking the running order (like drawing the entries from genre-slots which would be totally cool by me), then the credibility of the contest will fall fast.

No, GRE suggested to bring it back to even out the disadvantage of a producer chosen running order

And yes, I agree that it doesn't matter what Sweden's intention are and let's just all assume they're doing this as fair as possible. There are so many possible scenarios:

Germany gets the infamous second spot and misses victory by a few points, they'll complain that Sweden put them down there to decrease their odds of winning since they were considered a favorite and a threat to their friends Norway and Denmark who were also favorites.

Netherlands, San Marino, Montenegro etc will go last. Some will complain that SVT is giving the underdog and advantage as their record has been really bad over the last few years.

Norway, Iceland, Denmark and/or Finland performing closer to the end of the show. Clear favortism to their best buddies.

As said, SVT may have the best intentions in the world, however it doesn't matter cause pre-determined running order...they just open a can of worms....

 

[A-lister]

No, GRE suggested to bring it back to even out the disadvantage of a producer chosen running order

And yes, I agree that it doesn't matter what Sweden's intention are and let's just all assume they're doing this as fair as possible. There are so many possible scenarios:

Germany gets the infamous second spot and misses victory by a few points, they'll complain that Sweden put them down there to decrease their odds of winning since they were considered a favorite and a threat to their friends Norway and Denmark who were also favorites.

Netherlands, San Marino, Montenegro etc will go last. Some will complain that SVT is giving the underdog and advantage as their record has been really bad over the last few years.

Norway, Iceland, Denmark and/or Finland performing closer to the end of the show. Clear favortism to their best buddies.

As said, SVT may have the best intentions in the world, however it doesn't matter cause pre-determined running order...they just open a can of worms....

I see.

Exactly! Even if SVT have good intentions and would play it fair, then they just opened the Pandora's Box nevertheless.

Also, one have to realize that this is a change that is meant for future ESC editions aswell, I mean what if the contest will be held in a country which is far more corrupt and twisted up in political situations with their neighbors for instance? Would this really be so smart then?

Also, some may argue it's for the sake of making a better show... but really, who will be the judge of that? If MF is anything to go by, the running-order there is almost laughable predictable.

Now, I'm totally fine with mixing of genres, but there are other ways of handling that than this non-transparent and highly fishy way.

I think we should use our "fan/consumer/viewer power" here and come up with a compromise. But we will have to work together. I think the fair solution, which would make all happy, would be if the producers put the entries into genre slots. This way they will have that "power", but since there will be a random draw from these slots they won't control the direct outcome and we'll end up with a mixed running-order but still fair and random... so it's a win-win and all would be happy.

I really think that's the best solution that we, as fans, should push forward to EBU and SVT (aswell as our national broadcasters to push for). If EBU won't accept this, then they should accept the fact that no one will trust anything they do and there will be a public storm and more withdrawals to come.

 

[Schlagerman1]

I don't like that the draw has been away, but it is interesting cause it makes me wonder how SVT will choose in the line-up. It will not be easy to begin in semi 1, since we have 6 calm songs (seems that Netherlands will be a ballad as well) and only one real uptempo in Slovenia (still waiting for Estonia though). If Estonia also sends a ballad, then Christer Björkmans wish of a good amount of genrechanges will be though to get, at least in semi 1.

 

[GRE]

I don't like that the draw has been away, but it is interesting cause it makes me wonder how SVT will choose in the line-up. It will not be easy to begin in semi 1, since we have 6 calm songs (seems that Netherlands will be a ballad as well) and only one real uptempo in Slovenia (still waiting for Estonia though). If Estonia also sends a ballad, then Christer Björkmans wish of a good amount of genrechanges will be though to get, at least in semi 1.

Well,apart from Slovenia,i wouldn't say that Denmark has a calm song.Also Ukraine is about to release the new version of the song,that is more up tempo.
But you are right,in the second half of the semi,there will be mostly uptempo songs (Belgium,Lithuania,Ireland,Montenegro,Belarus and maybe Moldova/Serbia)

 

[Tjipptjopp]

Do you guys want/have any hope to change these running order rules before this esc, or do you just fear it will be bad and in the case change it for the following contests?

I like the changes EBU has made to the competition in the past and it seems they have no problem changing back if a change does not have the desired effects. I understand the risks with producer deciding the running order, but I have good faith in EBU and their wishes for a better esc. Therefore I am going to wait until after this years competition and see how it turns out before complaining about these rules. Am I alone feeling like this?

 

[GRE]

Yes.
Your country has just won,and you have nothing to expect from this procedure.

 

[Schlagerman1]

Do you guys want/have any hope to change these running order rules before this esc, or do you just fear it will be bad and in the case change it for the following contests?

I like the changes EBU has made to the competition in the past and it seems they have no problem changing back if a change does not have the desired effects. I understand the risks with producer deciding the running order, but I have good faith in EBU and their wishes for a better esc. Therefore I am going to wait until after this years competition and see how it turns out before complaining about these rules. Am I alone feeling like this?

I am not worried this year, since Christer Björkman and the usual "MF-people" has done this for over a decade, so they are used to make pretty fair judgement in the running order. I am more worried about 2014 or 15, when a more inexperienced producer are going to do this, how this one may make terrible faults or does make advantages (on purpose or not) for some countries and some doesn't get it in the same way.

In the end I think that this could go in two directions. One is that they remove this rule completly in the coming years, or that Christer Björkman with a few others going to lead some "Eurovision running order group", who will contain experts from different countries who are used to make it and will do it every year instead of the producers. And if we should have this rule, then I am more approve with that.

 

[Mickey]

I am not worried this year, since Christer Björkman and the usual "MF-people" has done this for over a decade, so they are used to make pretty fair judgement in the running order.

If by "fair," you mean choosing their favourite song and putting it on last.

 

[GRE]

I am not worried this year, since Christer Björkman and the usual "MF-people" has done this for over a decade, so they are used to make pretty fair judgement in the running order.

You are kidding right?
How fair is to put two similar ballads in the begining and the end of show? (for example n.2 and n.24)

 

[Matt]

I am not worried this year, since Christer Björkman and the usual "MF-people" has done this for over a decade, so they are used to make pretty fair judgement in the running order. I am more worried about 2014 or 15, when a more inexperienced producer are going to do this, how this one may make terrible faults or does make advantages (on purpose or not) for some countries and some doesn't get it in the same way.

I also have to disagree with that statement. MF has proven to have a running order that is a bit bias towards certain entries. Why was Danny the last song to perform in the last Semi and then also the last song to perform in Globen?
Same in 2011 when Eric Saade performed last in his Semi and Final...there are endless other examples so if the MF people have proven something it is that some songs get a favorable running order. Whether it is because of their personal taste, technical aspects or whatever reason...it certainly does not scream equal to me.

 

[A-lister]

Do you guys want/have any hope to change these running order rules before this esc, or do you just fear it will be bad and in the case change it for the following contests?

I like the changes EBU has made to the competition in the past and it seems they have no problem changing back if a change does not have the desired effects. I understand the risks with producer deciding the running order, but I have good faith in EBU and their wishes for a better esc. Therefore I am going to wait until after this years competition and see how it turns out before complaining about these rules. Am I alone feeling like this?

They can make this in a more fair transparent way by making a draw from "genre-pots", that's the only way imo that they can legitimize this change.

If they'll just draw it with no transparency or fair/chance system then it's no good change though.

If they put songs in two genre-pots and then draw then it's a win-win situation. They can still use a draw and make a mix of entries, question is do they want that? And if not... how come?