YEARLY JURY HATE THREAD

[Bsimmons]

And why do you think the israelian and cypriot Juries obliged to vote for each other?

Btw. 2010 the german and azeri Juries gave each other 0 Points and I can tell you that at least from german Side, there was no tactical Voting. This swedish Ballads never worked here + Safura was overrated as hell.

Why do you think I think any Jury is obliged to do anything?

Most of Juries from other countries gave points to both CYP and ISR, but no points given to each other. Considering that both songs were heavy pre-show favorites it does not take an Einstein to come to a logical conclusion what was happening there. I know it, you know it, everyone else knows it.

 

[Realest]

Why do you think I think any Jury is obliged to do anything?

Most of Juries from other countries gave points to both CYP and ISR, but no points given to each other. Considering that both songs were heavy pre-show favorites it does not take an Einstein to come to a logical conclusion what was happening there. I know it, you know it, everyone else knows it.

Cyprus got like 16 0s and Israel 10 0s if I remember right.
So the french and czech Juries f.e. are allowed to give 0 Points to Cyprus, but the Israelian Jury not?
Or the montenegrian and estonian Juries are allowed to give 0 POints to Israel, but the Cypriot Jury (whose Vote was [7,8,9,10,12] btw.) not?

 

[Bsimmons]

Cyprus got like 16 0s and Israel 10 0s if I remember right.
So the french and czech Juries f.e. are allowed to give 0 Points to Cyprus, but the Israelian Jury not?
Or the montenegrian and estonian Juries are allowed to give 0 POints to Israel, but the Cypriot Jury (whose Vote was [7,8,9,10,12] btw.) not?

Asking me one question twice does not make me change my answer ... so keep trying maybe if you ask it 76352th time, I will tell you that I think CYP and ISR jury acted unbiased.

So statistically it was like 20% chance for ISR to get 0 points from a random jury. And like 30% for CYP to get 0 points from a random Jury. You do know that it means both CYP and ISR to give eachother 0 points statistically is like a 7% chance? Weirdly enough it happened. Sure 7% probability events happen all the time, but excuse me if I am a bit dubious.

 

[Lindon]

Everybody who criticized the juries this year should read this article and the comment at the end of the article:

http://escinsight.com/2018/06/19/eurovision-song-contest-us-radio-jury-televote-difference/

I'm quoting parts of the article:

Along with the support of the EBU, Portuguese broadcaster RTP, lead US station WJFD, and the legendary production team of Radio Six International’s Tony Currie and Leo Currie; Ewan Spence, Lisa-Jayne Lewis, and Ana Filipa Rosa took to the American airwaves with the first US radio broadcast of the Eurovision Song Contest.

Which meant that this year there was an interesting option to have a group of professionals in the music and radio business the chance to sit down and listen to the Song Contest without the visuals from the Altice Arena, but with a professional commentary team guiding them through the process. Naturally we took notes…

What The Panel Thought

Like many of those listening in America, the radio panel (which may be the closest we get to an ‘American Jury’ at the Eurovision Song Contest for many years) had not been following the Song Contest in excruciating depth – they covered people who knew and listened to the Song Contest because it reminded them of their family’s home, those who were aware of the Contest in a broad sense, and some who were new to the entire concept of the Contest. In other words a relatively representative slice of the population.

Of the twenty-six songs in the Grand Final, there was a clear winner from the panel, with all bar one of the top spots going to Austria . Perhaps unsurprisingly the audio performance from the Netherlands all scored highly and was the only other country to top a panellist’s list, and was second with those who rated Austria first.

Three other songs had very strong reactions – the Czech Republic, Lithuania, and Germany. At the other end, Hungary, Serbia, and Australia picked up the ‘nul points’ from our panel.



(...)

While juries see the EBU TV feed and can see the full package, the US panel only had the audio to judge. There is a clear trend towards the juries following a similar pattern and focusing on the singing.



When the split results come in each year, there are always questions about why certain songs have such a wide discrepancy between jury and televote scores. Part of that could be down to the difference between Friday night and Saturday night, but Eurovision’s radio presentation in the USA suggests something more fundamental.

The professional juries are putting a greater focus on what is heard over what is seen.

 

[blue00eyes]

^ The article states the obvious

 

[midnightsun]

Btw. 2010 the german and azeri Juries gave each other 0 Points and I can tell you that at least from german Side, there was no tactical Voting. This swedish Ballads never worked here + Safura was overrated as hell.

So not true. This is a great example of how juries vote tactically. There was this big "fight" going on of Safura vs Lena and those two were the top favourites in the odds, so of course each jury gave each other zero points and of course it was tactical, even from Germany... it was so obvious! Azerbaijan even stated publicly how they would win over Germany and began pushing that fight between the two countries.

By the way, I dislike both songs 2010, Azerbaijan and Germany, and I wouldn't say one is worse than the other song, that's again YOUR opinion.

 

[Realest]

So not true. This is a great example of how juries vote tactically. There was this big "fight" going on of Safura vs Lena and those two were the top favourites in the odds, so of course each jury gave each other zero points and of course it was tactical, even from Germany... it was so obvious! Azerbaijan even stated publicly how they would win over Germany and began pushing that fight between the two countries.

From azeri Side it might be tactically, but I doubt that anyone from Germanys Jury liked this Song. Azerbaijan never has been a Winningcontender, despite the Money they spent. We dont know the Results but our Jurys probably voted Belgium, Portugal and Iceland in the Top3 which is typical (bad) Musictaste of german Juries. Our Juries (and Televoter) nearly never vote for swedish Ballads.

 

[Lindon]

^ The article states the obvious

The interesting thing is, that a "jury" - that only heared the audio- of a non participating country with little or none knowledge about the contest, came to almost the same conclusions as the juries of the well informed participating countries.

 

[Neo]

[MENTION=16272]Lindon[/MENTION] It really just confirms what is already known:

The usual crap vote from the juries. Anything that sounds or looks American Billboard is voted up, anything that sounds or looks European is voted down.

 

[tuorem]

[MENTION=15328]Neo[/MENTION] We sip the same tea. And coming from an American panel - of all nationalities - it was a given.

Also, I fail to see the point of this article. It doesn't really say anything.

 

[midnightsun]

@ Realest

I think discussing with you is pointless. You claim to have insight into all the juries/countries thoughts... which is ridiculous. Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but how can you on one hand criticize my and others thoughts about juries and voting patterns because in your opinion it CANNOT be they acted like that.... but on the other hand you constantly claim "that song is boring, no way juries voted for them - Swedenballads are never successful (so Sanna 2014 never happend?) - Azerbaijan has never been a winning contender (though it was proven by the odds)" etc. That are very subjective speculations of yourself, not based on anything but your own opinion.

From azeri Side it might be tactically, but I doubt that anyone from Germanys Jury liked this Song.

Of course they don't, because it was Lena's biggest rival. And because YOU DOUBT it this is truth?

Azerbaijan never has been a Winningcontender...

Of course not *rme* so the Azeri and fans breakdown after Safuras "bad" 5th place were tears of joy or what?
By they way, just google a bit and you can read, the odds back then were Azerbaijan for the win from the beginning, later then lowered to 2 when Lena surpassed them.

We dont know the Results but our Jurys probably voted Belgium, Portugal and Iceland in the Top3 which is typical (bad) Musictaste of german Juries.

We don't know... probably... nothing but speculation. YOUR speculation. For that which must not, cannot be, right?

Our Juries (and Televoter) nearly never vote for swedish Ballads.

Our juries voted Sanna 2014 in their top 10. Apart from that, there weren't much "Swedenballads" the past years, not even the participating ones for other countries.

 

[Realest]

@ Realest

I think discussing with you is pointless. You claim to have insight into all the juries/countries thoughts... which is ridiculous. Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but how can you on one hand criticize my and others thoughts about juries and voting patterns because in your opinion it CANNOT be they acted like that.... but on the other hand you constantly claim "that song is boring, no way juries voted for them - Swedenballads are never successful (so Sanna 2014 never happend?) - Azerbaijan has never been a winning contender (though it was proven by the odds)" etc. That are very subjective speculations of yourself, not based on anything but your own opinion.

Of course they don't, because it was Lena's biggest rival. And because YOU DOUBT it this is truth?

Of course not *rme* so the Azeri and fans breakdown after Safuras "bad" 5th place were tears of joy or what?
By they way, just google a bit and you can read, the odds back then were Azerbaijan for the win from the beginning, later then lowered to 2 when Lena surpassed them.

We don't know... probably... nothing but speculation. YOUR speculation. For that which must not, cannot be, right?

Our juries voted Sanna 2014 in their top 10. Apart from that, there weren't much "Swedenballads" the past years, not even the participating ones for other countries.

Well, Im not the one who accuse the Juries of being corrupt without bringing any proofs/arguments in the Opposite to you. You claim that the german Jury voted tactically because they didnt vote according to the bettingodds (but if they do, they are suddenly brainwashed by the Bettingodds btw lol). And yes, Undo was the only swedish Ballad (if I didnt forget another one) that our Jury voted for and even she was only 7th which is far below the average. Songs like "Shine", "when the Music Dies", "running Scared" , "I stand", "Hour of the Wolf" were ignored by our Juries, so yes, I can say there is a clear tendence that german Professionals dont like such songs. And yes, I know that "Dripdrop" was on Top on Betting odds, but I knew such a soulless Song would never win Eurovision. I guess Azerbaijan put a lot of money on themselves to make them look like a favourite. Douwe Bob and Ira Losco did the Same btw.

As I said, german Juries tend to not like those Songs. Only because you accuse our Juries for tactical Voting, it doesnt mean they did this Imagine you were a professional Jurymember and the betting Odds "force" you to vote for a Song you dont like.

And btw. I wrote that its only a speculation. Since Turkey and Greece usually won our Televotings its the most likely Scenario that Belgium won the Juries followed by Iceland and Portugal. I never wrote that this is safe.

 

[midnightsun]

Ok, we better let it go at that... still pointless to me.

Btw, what a pity the Jury votes per country/juror weren‘t released in the first years of the re-introduced juries.

I remember a few years back then (90s and earlier) when some of the bookies favourites didn‘t do well at all. I have a feeling this won‘t happen that much nowadays. So why is this?
Clearly, there must be a reason for it that odds are much more accurate these days. Not only because the songs are released earlier. It‘s interesting how that changed the past decades.

 

[Realest]

Back then we didnt have Internet. The Betting-Odds didnt have such a medial Hype like nowadays.
The Betting-Odds represent the Popularity of a Panel (varying after Gender, Age (like the Jurypanesl) etc..) of around a few 10K people I guess who put money on their Favourites. Thats why they are good, but not exact at predicting the Outcome. I also hoped Austria won this year to have a winner who was #19 in the Odds (and because its the best song of course).

 

[mauve]

@ Realest

I think discussing with you is pointless. You claim to have insight into all the juries/countries thoughts... which is ridiculous. Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but how can you on one hand criticize my and others thoughts about juries and voting patterns because in your opinion it CANNOT be they acted like that.... but on the other hand you constantly claim "that song is boring, no way juries voted for them - Swedenballads are never successful (so Sanna 2014 never happend?) - Azerbaijan has never been a winning contender (though it was proven by the odds)" etc. That are very subjective speculations of yourself, not based on anything but your own opinion.

Exactly. That's why I stopped the discussion in another thread.

 

[Himan]

Also it are 10K people who predict the outcome, they don't say who they like. For me personally that's often something different

 

[Realest]

Btw. this is something that is really disgusting me:

Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 6 to


Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 4 to
Jury: 12 to and 7 to
Jury: 12 to and 6 to
Jury: 12 to and 10 to
Jury: 12 to and 7 to

The Jurys who prefered were much more fair.

 

[Himan]

Btw. this is something that is really disgusting me:

Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 6 to


Jury: 12 to and 0 to
Jury: 12 to and 4 to
Jury: 12 to and 7 to
Jury: 12 to and 6 to
Jury: 12 to and 10 to
Jury: 12 to and 7 to

The Jurys who prefered were much more fair.

Because you liked Cy more?

 

[mauve]

I didn't like Israel and Cyprus … so all countries who gave them 12 Points are VERY unfair!

 

[Realest]

Because you liked Cy more?

No, tbh I dont care about Fuego anymore and only hyped it, because I saw new Hope, that Israels Victory could be prevented. But this gives me the Impression, that those 4 Juries tried their best to make win and prevent .