WV Spin-Off #31: Songs from National Finals | Confirmation Thread (DDL: 17/08 @ 23:59 CET)

[Veronika]

oO so regions are allowed? As I see Veronika took so I then will take stockholm

No

My #1 priority is , so if regions are allowed, I'll take it, because I actually wrote that I wanted it before you did.

is just my back-up country

 

[theditz83]

The mods won't get involved - it should be up to the host (@esc87fan) and the original theme suggestor to discuss how the rules should be modified to best suit the contest. But as the current rules stand, regions aren't allowed (in fact, there is no mention of regions at all, only countries).

 

[Gera11]

The mods won't get involved - it should be up to the host (@esc87fan) and the original theme suggestor to discuss how the rules should be modified to best suit the contest. But as the current rules stand, regions aren't allowed (in fact, there is no mention of regions at all, only countries).

Every spin-off can have a particular thing, but the general aspects of WV must be applied to every spin-off, otherwise this would not be a WV Spin-off, more a FSC Spin-off, imo. Also rule #2 says:

2. You can choose ANY country or region to participate in spin-off.

 

[Hele.]

The mods won't get involved - it should be up to the host (@esc87fan) and the original theme suggestor to discuss how the rules should be modified to best suit the contest. But as the current rules stand, regions aren't allowed (in fact, there is no mention of regions at all, only countries).

I really understand your point and your side of story. Idea about "Songs NF spin off" is definitely not mine but it is me that suggested it and [MENTION=6603]LakZaNokte[/MENTION] copied it for last time.
I didn't write anywhere regions because it is well known that in WV we play the with regions. There is no edition (original or spin off) where some regions didn't participate and it is main core of the game so why to emphasis country OR region. In WV both is allowed.

Every spin-off can have a particular thing, but the general aspects of WV must be applied to every spin-off, otherwise this would not be a WV Spin-off, more a FSC Spin-off, imo. Also rule #2 says:

But this is what I'm talking about. This is WV - and concept of regions is MAIN CORE of WV! And we should respect it. If we play FSC of course it wouldn't be allowed. But we play WV and regions should always be allowed in spin offs.

I hope you understand (and do not get mad with me) that I'm just speaking about respecting main rule of this contest (in general), nothing personal.

 

[RomanFromRussia]

Regions were allowed in every spin off we participated before. What's difference between this spin off and any other?

 

[Stargazer]

I think it makes sense for this particular spin-off to not have regions, since this is supposed to be ESC related. Like a Eurovision edition that never was, so why not have it be like Eurovision? Like Gary said, this is supposed to represent the various ESC countries and their national finals. It's not like there aren't enough ESC countries to go around. The countries who tend to go for an internal selection often have songs that never made it to Eurovision as well, so surely there is a lot to choose from.

Seeing as NF songs are not allowed in WV, the argument that this spin-off edition needs to have the same rules as WV doesn't hold up. This particular spin-off edition is the opposite of a regular WV edition.

 

[Hele.]

I think it makes sense for this particular spin-off to not have regions, since this is supposed to be ESC related. Like a Eurovision edition that never was, so why not have it be like Eurovision? Like Gary said, this is supposed to represent the various ESC countries and their national finals. It's not like there aren't enough ESC countries to go around. The countries who tend to go for an internal selection often have songs that never made it to Eurovision as well, so surely there is a lot to choose from.

Seeing as NF songs are not allowed in WV, the argument that this spin-off edition needs to have the same rules as WV doesn't hold up. This particular spin-off edition is the opposite of a regular WV edition.

Because it is WV where regions are allowed. If it is FSC spin off, I would agree. But in WV, I can't agree. And also, many members are always sending regions so this is pretty shocked for them to forbid this now. It is against main core of WV.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, NF songs in WV are forbidden because "of fear" that they could be favor by some members and that members could be biased in voting for them as this is esc related forum (from what I remember when we had discussion about that, please correct me if I'm wrong). That's the main reason and not because that songs couldn't be sent potentially by some region (for example that Stockholm sends some song from Melodifestivalen). So, reason because of what songs from NFs are forbidden in original WV is not limited factor to send them via regions this time.

 

[Stargazer]

But it's just one edition. Why can't we just have it this way for this one particular edition, when this one edition is Eurovision related? This spin-off is already different from all the other spin-offs since NF songs are not allowed in regular spin-off editions.

Why can't people just read the stipulations of any given spin-off and just accept that it's the way it is and go along with it? Why must the theme rules always be bent a little by some or debated by others? It feels like this happens every other edition or so. If you don't like the rules of a particular spin-off, there's always another one in a few weeks.

 

[Hele.]

But it's just one edition. Why can't we just have it this way for this one particular edition, when this one edition is Eurovision related? This spin-off is already different from all the other spin-offs since NF songs are not allowed in regular spin-off editions.

Why can't people just read the stipulations of any given spin-off and just accept that it's the way it is and go along with it? Why must the theme rules always be bent a little by some or debated by others? It feels like this happens every other edition or so. If you don't like the rules of a particular spin-off, there's always another one in a few weeks.

Do you know that this time I'm theme suggester? And I never was thinking to not allow regions since this is WV - place where we play with regions. What's so weird about that??

EDIT: I already reserved my country and for me it doesn't play any role. But I think it hurts some members that want send region that is regularly allowed in spin off. I simply do not know why we are discussing about regions not being allowed in WV when in it is MAIN RULES it is written that regions are allowed in every original edition and spin off.

 

[theditz83]

I agree with everything that Anna says above. But ultimately, I really don't care either way. I was simply making the point that the rules as they currently stand do not permit regions, and I can understand that as the theme relates to NFs for ESC countries. Can we just come to a decision asap so that this doesn't drag on for too long?

P.S. if regions are allowed after all, I'm changing from Ireland

EDIT: I already reserved my country and for me it doesn't play any role. But I think it hurts some members that want send region that is regularly allowed in spin off.

I simply do not know why we are discussing about regions not being allowed in WV when in it is MAIN RULES it is written that regions are allowed in every original edition and spin off.

But the specific rules for this contest only permit one participant per country - no regions. You can't simply ignore that, especially when it's clearly stated in the first post of this thread.
@esc87fan - as host, help us out here!

 

[Stargazer]

Do you know that this time I'm theme suggester? And I never was thinking to not allow regions since this is WV - place where we play with regions. What's so weird about that??

EDIT: I already reserved my country and for me it doesn't play any role. But I think it hurts some members that want send region that is regularly allowed in spin off. I simply do not know why we are discussing about regions not being allowed in WV when in it is MAIN RULES it is written that regions are allowed in every original edition and spin off.

LakZaNokte is the theme suggester this current edition. She copied your suggestion absolutely, but she is still the theme suggester. Theme ideas have been copied over and over by lots of people during the course of WV spin-offs, but it's always the one who suggests it last who is the current suggester. So let's ask Lak what she thinks.

Yes we play with regions in WV and in spin-offs, but we also do not play with NF songs in WV and spin-offs. This is the opposite edition.

 

[Hele.]

I agree with everything that Anna says above. But ultimately, I really don't care either way. I was simply making the point that the rules as they currently stand do not permit regions, and I can understand that as the theme relates to NFs for ESC countries. Can we just come to a decision asap so that this doesn't drag on for too long?

P.S. if regions are allowed after all, I'm changing from Ireland



But the specific rules for this contest only permit one participant per country - no regions. You can't simply ignore that, especially when it's clearly stated in the first post of this thread.
@esc87fan - as host, help us out here!

But who decided about that "specific" rules? It is changing of main rules of contest. No one is allowed to do that. How can someone on its own hand decide about not respecting main core of contest??

As theme suggester I sent PM to Steph...hope to clarify that soon. I just do not get why we are discussing about (non) allowing of regions in WV...Can I ask you why you ignore this and main rule of concept that [MENTION=8763]Gera11[/MENTION] clearly posted to you. Also, what's so bad in allowing regions? I think we just can have better songs in competition.

 

[Hele.]

LakZaNokte is the theme suggester this current edition. She copied your suggestion absolutely, but she is still the theme suggester. Theme ideas have been copied over and over by lots of people during the course of WV spin-offs, but it's always the one who suggests it last who is the current suggester. So let's ask Lak what she thinks.

Yes we play with regions in WV and in spin-offs, but we also do not play with NF songs in WV and spin-offs. This is the opposite edition.

She copied it in exactly same way as I suggested it. So, it is the same suggestion, no matter who suggest it last. Anyway, I wonder what thinks [MENTION=6603]LakZaNokte[/MENTION].

And I already told, main reason we do not play with NF songs regularly is not that they couldn't be send by some region, it is because this is esc related forum. So, if those songs are allowed to play with, they could be send for some region too.

 

[theditz83]

I don't refer to the general WV rules when it comes to spin-offs. I refer to the specific rules for that edition that are posted by the host, as these should be the most valid rules for that specific contest. I know that WorldVision permits regions, but for all we know a decision has been made by the theme creator/host to change the rules for a specific edition to suit the theme better (which would have been my expectation and understanding).

The true issue at hand is the rule on the first post that allows only countries. As soon as Steph can change that, then the rules will be clear for all.

 

[Hele.]

I don't refer to the general WV rules when it comes to spin-offs. I refer to the specific rules for that edition that are posted by the host, as these should be the most valid rules for that specific contest. I know that WorldVision permits regions, but for all we know a decision has been made by the theme creator/host to change the rules for a specific edition to suit the theme better (which would have been my expectation and understanding).

The true issue at hand is the rule on the first post that allows only countries. As soon as Steph can change that, then the rules will be clear for all.

WV Main rules: http://www.escunited.com/t8484/

WV Spin off rules: http://www.escunited.com/t9107/

Do not speak about Main rules but also Spin off rules too.

Anyway, last time when we had issue about theme interpretation, I discuss it also with theme suggester and everything did with his/her permission. I hope that Steph discusses this with Lak too. I doubt she has idea of not allowing regions in WV too.

I just do not know why always forcing some restrictions to "kill fun"? I do not know why someone is hurt if someone other will send Stockholm singer or Istria singer? That maybe will be more fun to other players and what does change to me or to your entry when you already have it??? Why to hurt other people with so restrictions that never existed in spin off? Why to be hurting our "colleagues-players". We are playing, we are not in war! I do not get this as competition so much, I have fun playing with you. I just do not get why someone is so hurt if there is Stockholm or Belgrade in competition and in list of countries/regions? What does it change so much for you or for me???

It is not worth to wasting time on discussions any more, I hope to hear soon from Steph and Lak.

 

[Stargazer]

But who decided about that "specific" rules? It is changing of main rules of contest. No one is allowed to do that. How can someone on its own hand decide about not respecting main core of contest??

As theme suggester I sent PM to Steph...hope to clarify that soon. I just do not get why we are discussing about (non) allowing of regions in WV...Can I ask you why you ignore this and main rule of concept that [MENTION=8763]Gera11[/MENTION] clearly posted to you. Also, what's so bad in allowing regions? I think we just can have better songs in competition.

This "main core" of WV was heavily debated at first and wasn't even going to be the "main core" of WV. The only reason we included regions in WV was because in the beginning you couldn't have a country to yourself, others could join your country whether you wanted to or not. So regions were included so that those who wanted to play alone could do so. But I digress.

To me it sounds more like people are thinking "but I want to send something from Melodifestivalen/Melodi Grand Prix/Söngvakeppnin/Eesti Laul too!!! Not fair!!!" rather than being concerned with respecting the rules of WV or the spin-offs. Not having regions in this particular spin-off would make a much more diverse edition, instead of one with half the songs coming from one or two countries.

 

[Hele.]

This "main core" of WV was heavily debated at first and wasn't even going to be the "main core" of WV. The only reason we included regions in WV was because in the beginning you couldn't have a country to yourself, others could join your country whether you wanted to or not. So regions were included so that those who wanted to play alone could do so. But I digress.

To me it sounds more like people are thinking "but I want to send something from Melodifestivalen/Melodi Grand Prix/Söngvakeppnin/Eesti Laul too!!! Not fair!!!" rather than being concerned with respecting the rules of WV or the spin-offs. Not having regions in this particular spin-off would make a much more diverse edition, instead of one with half the songs coming from one or two countries.

But there was big pool at start and majority decided, whatever you (or me) (dis)agree. Also, it is "main core" cause Matt wouldn't allow new game that would be similar to FSC. So, WV needed something to be different from FSC and NSC and that are regions. Then Trece suggested regions to be difference of other contests, majority voted for it and it became "main core".

Well, as I told, I sent my entry (that is for country) and this will not change anything to me (and as you already sent, there is no change for you too). If for someone is fun to send something from Melodifestivalen or other festival, and he/she can take some region (that rule always allow) who are you or me to stop that person to do so?

 

[Steffan]

I am pro-regions for this spinoff...

 

[theditz83]

But there was big pool at start and majority decided, whatever you (or me) (dis)agree. Also, it is "main core" cause Matt wouldn't allow new game that would be similar to FSC. So, WV needed something to be different from FSC and NSC and that are regions. Then Trece suggested regions to be difference of other contests, majority voted for it and it became "main core".

Well, as I told, I sent my entry (that is for country) and this will not change anything to me (and as you already sent, there is no change for you too). If for someone is fun to send something from Melodifestivalen or other festival, and he/she can take some region (that rule always allow) who are you or me to stop that person to do so?

Stargazer and I are not arguing that regions shouldn't be allowed, and we are not trying to "ruin anyone's fun". We are merely explaining the rules that have been set out for this edition. We do not deny any of the WorldVision rules, but the specific rules as posted by Steph permitted only one song from each country. That's a fact. Please don't take this as personal attacks on your opinion or the WorldVision rules.

Anyway, I'm done discussing this here since the facts have been said a million times over. We need Steph to get online and to re-confirm the rules.

 

[Hele.]

Stargazer and I are not arguing that regions shouldn't be allowed, and we are not trying to "ruin anyone's fun". We are merely explaining the rules that have been set out for this edition. We do not deny any of the WorldVision rules, but the specific rules as posted by Steph permitted only one song from each country. That's a fact. Please don't take this as personal attacks on your opinion or the WorldVision rules.

Anyway, I'm done discussing this here since the facts have been said a million times over. We need Steph to get online and to re-confirm the rules.

I agree with this your statement. I get it is basically whatever for you. Well, wait for Steph to clarifies this.